While I played Everquest as a Bard mostly, travel was always fun for me, as Selo's was so enjoyable, I'd rather run than teleport.
But I do realize not everybody had that kind of speed at their fingertips, or the penchant to "see the sights" I did.
Most people seem to find that run back to the bank or next quest boring.
Here's my suggestion...
When you start a quest, why wouldn't there be opposing forces looking to keep you from fulfilling that quest?
Wouldn't it be fun if while running through Zone A, you got waylaid by agents of an unfriendly party, looking to either stop you, or steal what you've worked for?
And I'm not talking about monsters normally found in that zone. I mean NPC's focused on doing you harm, directly related to your quest...
and it could happen anywhere. You would have to put additional planning into your travel routes and timing.
HAHA, I just gave myself a flashback from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". Them peering over a rock, looking at a cloud of dust from the horses of the guys tracking/chasing them still miles in the distance"......"Who are those guys?!"
Wouldn't that be AWESOME?
Pretty cool but what happens when you have been playing for a while at 50 and done all the quests? Also how hard are these npc's going to be and what makes it worthwhile for the player to stop and fight them rather than just continue running on and continue what their doing?
Personally there needs to be a boring/long travelling involved in mmos because it makes people think more before leaving certain places quickly. But I would be all for adding cool things like you suggested into the game if it's done well and worthwhile.
I remember quests in games like WoW that had events like this as part of the quest, but even though the mobs were supposed to be ambushing you, you usually ended up waiting around to kill them. It would be sweet if the AI could be coded so mobs know when you are trying to complete quest objectives that adversely affect them. So, if you were on a quest for Crushbone Belts, maybe the orcs in and around CB would aggro from 5m further away. With the way Perception looks so far, though, I'm not sure you've ever actually 'on a quest'...doesn't look like you have to accept quests. You just do them or you don't. That makes it a little harder to have mobs interfere more organically, and you're left with just the scripted events for that.
So what you're wanting is some kind of 'encounter' based on what you are doing. Whether that is just travelling from A to B or maybe even based on gathering resources. This reminds of something from Age of Conan where you'd be gathering resouces and NPC's would spawn and attack while you were gathering resources. They would spawn at the appropriate level to give that character a challenge.
Another organic and engaging feature was from Tabula Rasa where bases would get overrun by NPC's. You might be travelling to another location and be moving past that base and then decide whether to stop and help defend the base if it was being attacked, or if it was overrun you could stop and try and take it back. It was actually quite a lot of fun teaming up with random people that reacted to these situations and engaging in this kind of activity.
Having game mechanics happening that are relevant, engaging and purpose driven based on what you are doing is something that will certainly help with immersion. I think the perception system would work well this kind of thing.
Rather not see quests along these lines at all. If the world is populated with enough dangerous NPCs on its own then circumventing mobs from a quest would just be redundant. Quests should be much rarer and more involved. I feel like something like this could become a super routine part of gameplay that becomes predictable and more trouble than it's worth in the long term.
Liav said:Rather not see quests along these lines at all. If the world is populated with enough dangerous NPCs on its own then circumventing mobs from a quest would just be redundant. Quests should be much rarer and more involved. I feel like something like this could become a super routine part of gameplay that becomes predictable and more trouble than it's worth in the long term.
It isn't about circumventing. You wouldn't even see them coming. Plus, it wouldn't be guaranteed, it could happen anywhere, or even not at all. Some quests, it wouldn't even be a thing.
I just am bored with the "oh, go read the quest line on Pantheon Information Site X and see what exactly to do, in what order, and what mobs to kill" typical quest. This could make a lot of "base" quests a bit more unpredictable.
corpserunner said:While I played Everquest as a Bard mostly, travel was always fun for me, as Selo's was so enjoyable, I'd rather run than teleport.
But I do realize not everybody had that kind of speed at their fingertips, or the penchant to "see the sights" I did.
Most people seem to find that run back to the bank or next quest boring.
Here's my suggestion...
When you start a quest, why wouldn't there be opposing forces looking to keep you from fulfilling that quest?
Wouldn't it be fun if while running through Zone A, you got waylaid by agents of an unfriendly party, looking to either stop you, or steal what you've worked for?
And I'm not talking about monsters normally found in that zone. I mean NPC's focused on doing you harm, directly related to your quest...
and it could happen anywhere. You would have to put additional planning into your travel routes and timing.HAHA, I just gave myself a flashback from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". Them peering over a rock, looking at a cloud of dust from the horses of the guys tracking/chasing them still miles in the distance"......"Who are those guys?!"
Wouldn't that be AWESOME?
We actually had this in VG, on only a very few quests we had cultists that would ambush you along certain points of the path you were likely to take while escorting someone or travelling to see someone, it was pretty cool and gave you something out of the ordinary to deal with, it would be nice to include something similar or a quest or two but anymore than that and it gets a bit tedious and feels repetitive, so it is always good to have a nice mix/balance but I like your thinking man :)
Kilsin said:We actually had this in VG, on only a very few quests we had cultists that would ambush you along certain points of the path you were likely to take while escorting someone or travelling to see someone, it was pretty cool and gave you something out of the ordinary to deal with, it would be nice to include something similar or a quest or two but anymore than that and it gets a bit tedious and feels repetitive, so it is always good to have a nice mix/balance but I like your thinking man :)
You'll have to forgive me as I never played VG, though I wish I had! I was too busy being a good little Engineer, and working on my career at the time.
You're right about it being used sparingly. I've read that one of the reasons playing slot machines is so addictive is that the outcome is uncertain, while the payoffs are exciting.
I would just love that when the final piece required for a quest is looted, the quest may or may not be over! You still gotta cross home plate heheh.
corpserunner said:Kilsin said:We actually had this in VG, on only a very few quests we had cultists that would ambush you along certain points of the path you were likely to take while escorting someone or travelling to see someone, it was pretty cool and gave you something out of the ordinary to deal with, it would be nice to include something similar or a quest or two but anymore than that and it gets a bit tedious and feels repetitive, so it is always good to have a nice mix/balance but I like your thinking man :)
You'll have to forgive me as I never played VG, though I wish I had! I was too busy being a good little Engineer, and working on my career at the time.
You're right about it being used sparingly. I've read that one of the reasons playing slot machines is so addictive is that the outcome is uncertain, while the payoffs are exciting.
I would just love that when the final piece required for a quest is looted, the quest may or may not be over! You still gotta cross home plate heheh.
Haha, nothing wrong with being a good little Engineer mate!
Yeah, exactly, trying to be unpredictable without being too random/unpredictable is actually quite hard but I know the team has some great ideas for our quests, especially since we are going for fewer quest but of a higher quality. :)
I'm usually all for hardcore mechanics, but I'd actually fall more in line with Liav on this one. I'm for random encounters, but I'd rather not have them as a nuisance while traveling. I'd prefer it on a turn in itself so I could be somewhat prepared with a group if necessary. This proposal would only make me try to always get ports or a super run speed buff prior to traveling for quest steps which would be counterproductive to traveling. I'd almost view this proposal as an NPC version to fearing being ganked on a pvp server.
I also don't want mundane kill quests either, but I'd rather have a lot fewer quests, but more deeply involved like the Coldain Prayer Shawl or Coldain Ring quest from EQ.
Bandits in EQ would catch you along the road, stray guards that you had bad faction with would chase you to the zone lines... god i hated that, cuz they could always run faster ! Kith forest @ night, well we all know those horror stories. There is a bunch of stay on your toes kind of stuff that brad has thrown in the games he has pioneered for traveling from A to b. It always made you prepare before you started your travel because you never knew if you would make it and or spend half the day retrieving your corpse. Gosh i miss that :)
Kelem said:Bandits in EQ would catch you along the road, stray guards that you had bad faction with would chase you to the zone lines... god i hated that, cuz they could always run faster ! Kith forest @ night, well we all know those horror stories. There is a bunch of stay on your toes kind of stuff that brad has thrown in the games he has pioneered for traveling from A to b. It always made you prepare before you started your travel because you never knew if you would make it and or spend half the day retrieving your corpse. Gosh i miss that :)
I was thinking exactly those bandits. I imagine, after you come back to get your revenge on them for being so nasty, that their leader keeps sending out hit squads because you trifled with the wrong group of brigands.
I'm not sure you need random encounters.
This ties into trying to get people lost a bit. If you make the zone confusing enough through georgraphy and have both camps of mobs and wandering mobs that should make the travel fairly dangerous. Scatter in a mix of mid to high level mobs in each zone and it's dangerous for everyone to travel in. Basically make it like a real forest. Often it's difficult to see because of the canopy and you lose your bearings.
Of course this is likely not something that people want to begin with because it might involve some frustration and hardship, but that's what I thought they were trying to bring back to an extent. A lot of the negative emotions we exprienced because of hardships you had to overcome in game is what made it a memorable experience.
I think that if they design every zone well including populating them with faction based NPC's as well as your usual KOS monsters, that would kind of tow the line here... depending on where you are, what you're doing, and who you are, you may or may not have to worry about NPC attacks. For example, maybe a nice little witch needs some ingredient that only grows in the swamps around the troll village. But she can't do it herself, however a handsome adventurer such as yourself is more than happy to help her out. Except trolls hate everyone who isn't a troll. So you can either sneak in, obtain what you need, and hope no one sees you. Or you can hack and slash your way in. Or you can take the time to build faction, so you can waltz right in.
Having a faction system is great, but I think it can be used to such a greater extent than it ever was in EQ
Kelem said:Kith forest @ night, well we all know those horror stories.
I like a lot of the ideas being thrown around in here. I want to point out how cool it is that the time of day played such a memorable role in everybody's Kithicor Forest experience. Content that's tied to time of day is traditionally hard to make fun for a lot of reasons, but I'd love to see a lot more of this in Pantheon. Particularly, in the context of travel, but also for quest-related content more generally. One purely mechanics-related up-side is that it paces quest progression. On the social side, it breaks up a play session a bit and maybe prompts some social interaction that wouldn't happen otherwise.
I honestly don't want quests to always be the thing that makes me head towards my directions. Quests are important but I want 80% of my time I choose my own paths instead of quests telling me where to go. I'm also not a fan of anything scripted or "dynamic" because it turns the world into something artificial "oh those NPCs are acting this way because I turned-on trigger-quest-001" I don't like that. The Faction system is way better than triggers that happen because you are in progress of Quest_00x.
Laura said:I'm also not a fan of anything scripted or "dynamic" because it turns the world into something artificial "oh those NPCs are acting this way because I turned-on trigger-quest-001" I don't like that.
Interesting. Personally, I find a world that doesn't react to my actions more artificial.
UnknownQuantity said:I'm not sure you need random encounters.
This ties into trying to get people lost a bit. If you make the zone confusing enough through georgraphy and have both camps of mobs and wandering mobs that should make the travel fairly dangerous. Scatter in a mix of mid to high level mobs in each zone and it's dangerous for everyone to travel in. Basically make it like a real forest. Often it's difficult to see because of the canopy and you lose your bearings.
Of course this is likely not something that people want to begin with because it might involve some frustration and hardship, but that's what I thought they were trying to bring back to an extent. A lot of the negative emotions we exprienced because of hardships you had to overcome in game is what made it a memorable experience.
Yes. Make the travel scary again at all times...not just while you are on a quest.
Keeping travel "interesting" tends to make it much slower.
It seems that the majority would vote for interesting travel, no "modern" conveniences to allow people to rapidly travel to form groups even if they are in widely different locations, and minimal solo content to give us something worthwhile to do when not grouping.
On the assumption that most people won't be willing or able to wait half an hour for group members to make these ...interesting ....trips to join a group, how is it proposed that all of these goals be accomplished simultaneously? Plan that with rare exceptions groups would need to form among people already near eachother? But there are other threads urging the desirability of encouraging people to return to zones they have already quested in to do group content there. I'm reasonably certain that something has to give.
dorotea said:Keeping travel "interesting" tends to make it much slower.
It seems that the majority would vote for interesting travel, no "modern" conveniences to allow people to rapidly travel to form groups even if they are in widely different locations, and minimal solo content to give us something worthwhile to do when not grouping.
On the assumption that most people won't be willing or able to wait half an hour for group members to make these ...interesting ....trips to join a group, how is it proposed that all of these goals be accomplished simultaneously? Plan that with rare exceptions groups would need to form among people already near eachother? But there are other threads urging the desirability of encouraging people to return to zones they have already quested in to do group content there. I'm reasonably certain that something has to give.
I think that's the idea, maybe. You might arrange to go to a dungeon with friends/guildmates ahead of time, in which case everyone is traveling to meet there. If not, then I think it's more a decision to head to the dungeon and see if you can find a group there rather than just looking for a group and going to wherever you find one.
I'm hoping that dungeon groups become long-lasting things again and not these quick runs that they have been. If that's the case, then yes, they'll wait for you. If you're someone the group can't continue on without (tank/healer), they'll be happy they've got you on the way. If not, they'll continue fighting (carefully) while you make your way out there.
It also used to be common practice to give 30 minutes notice (whenever possible) before you planned to leave. That gave the group time to find a replacement and get him on the way out so your departure didn't really interrupt everyone else fighting. Not sure that etiquette is ever coming back, but I can dream.