@Liav
But yor your comparison at the end of subscription fees and Kronos is not the same at all. People pay 14.99/month to play sure, but everyone is on an even playing field at that rate. I should say I'm aganist boxing as well, so, I'd argue the same points with boxing. I'd rather not see 5 people playing accounts even if they're paying 14.99/month x5. I get it though, VRI needs money so the likelihood that boxing will be policed is negligble. However, with the introduction of Kronos, you're going to have a "lot" more people boxxing, farming plat, and buying Kronos. It also doesn't stop RMT either - people sell Kronos online that bought them with in-game plat for real money. There's really no positive to Kronos except for a terrible cash grab.
To your example of someone buying 500 Kronos on Phinigel, they could create a full group of 6 with 6 accounts and achieve much more than an individual. The only point I would agree with is buying Kronos does not make a player less or more "good."
Beefcake said:Or, just save the industry by eliminating RMTs.
Yeah. That'd be great. Except this is reality where issues can't be solved through sheer willpower.
We can either accept that RMT will exist regardless and that VR will have a very long, brutal battle of attrition with RMTers (that they will inevitably lose), or we can look into mechanics to bring some legitimacy to it while making sure that the game is built from the ground up to accomodate it.
RMT is only as powerful as what money can buy in your game.
Raidan said:@Liav
But yor your comparison at the end of subscription fees and Kronos is not the same at all. People pay 14.99/month to play sure, but everyone is on an even playing field at that rate. I should say I'm aganist boxing as well, so, I'd argue the same points with boxing. I'd rather not see 5 people playing accounts even if they're paying 14.99/month x5. I get it though, VRI needs money so the likelihood that boxing will be policed is negligble. However, with the introduction of Kronos, you're going to have a "lot" more people boxxing, farming plat, and buying Kronos. It also doesn't stop RMT either - people sell Kronos online that bought them with in-game plat for real money. There's really no positive to Kronos except for a terrible cash grab.
To your example of someone buying 500 Kronos on Phinigel, they could create a full group of 6 with 6 accounts and achieve much more than an individual. The only point I would agree with is buying Kronos does not make a player less or more "good."
I have not seen any evidence that establishes a causal relationship between Krono and the existence of boxes and plat farming. In 2002, I remember getting 100k plat from a Chinese seller as a birthday present from a family member, and twinking a Ranger with it. In Dark Age of Camelot, any time I wanted to make a new template for a character to PvP with, I'd buy Chinese plat to put it together. I'm not ashamed of it.
I have to admit that I haven't done it in a long time, though. Instead, I just farm plat in game through legitimate means to make my money. It's doubtful that I would RMT in Pantheon because it just doesn't really thrill me anymore. Regardless of that fact, though, it will be there.
The person buying 500 Krono could just as easily have put that money into buying 6 accounts and paying the subscriptions. The existence of Krono is kind of irrelevant in that scenario.
Unless you want VR to tie your account to your social security number it's just kind of going to happen. I'm open to suggestions on how to do that but everything that I have heard so far is just silly things like "ban people". The approach to RMT here reminds me of abstinence only education.
Beefcake said:You have stated enough to destroy any legitimacy to your argument.
No need for me to continue the argument.
Thank you for having an open mind.
Liav said:I have not seen any evidence that establishes a causal relationship between Krono and the existence of boxes and plat farming.
I have personally seen a full group of boxed/botted toons farming all day and night collecting loot and plat to buy kronos, and keep 6 accounts on gold status or whatever they call it in EQ today.
Now would boxes, bots, and plat farming still exist? Yes certainly, but if you had to shell out $90/month to maintain your 6 bots vs. just letting a script run overnight, that might dissuade some people.
*edit for typos*
Quintra said:I have personally seen a full group of boxes/botted toons farming all day and night collecting loot and plat to buy kronos, and keep 6 accounts on gold status or whatever they call it in EQ today.
Now would boxes, bots, and plat farming still exist? Yes certainly, but it you had to shell out $90/month to maintain your 6 bots vs. just letting a script run overnight, that might dissuade some people.
I mean, I've seen this stuff happen since way before Krono ever existed. $90/mo is chump change compared to what even a mediocre RMTer can rake in. Not to mention that the Krono used to sustain the accounts is still merchandise that's being consumed, so you're still paying something.
Regardless, I'm sick and my NyQuil is probably causing me to shitpost so I'm just going to call it a day here.
@Liav
I saw a large increase of boxing in EQlive once Kronos were introduced. Obviously, it's subjective off my experience, and EQ was beginning to severely decline in population, so admittedly, there were other variables as well. I'd also agree that the person that bought 500 Kronos could have bought multiple accounts, which, I agree is equivalent to the person actually buying the Kronos and purchasing extra accounts with them. Where the uptick in boxing comes though are the people who would usually be too stingy to buy multiple accounts now with real money have an alternative in-game means to do so by farming plat, purchasing a Krono, then purchasing an account.
Also, I'd definitely not want a SS# tied to an account, but perhaps similar to what colleges or employers do have some unique Student ID # or Employee ID# that was issued. What would be much difficult to police would be people buying multiple accounts for other household members, and then ultimately using their accounts to box. I don't think you could ever police that scenario, but, like with all things, you could mitigate a lot of it.
Bottom line though, you've seen enough of my posting history to know we'll ultimately disagree on this scenario - and if extra cash is ultimately needed for Pantheon, I'd much rather see an external store that sells memorabilia such as hats, T-shirts, mugs, etc. versus selling Kronos. If a system like Kronos were introduced, I'd want them introduced similarly to EQ, at 10+ years down the road once Pantheon needs to be be life-lined expansion to expansion.
We have not got an official stance on this yet, it is far too early to be discussing post launch subscription models and in-game tokens when we haven't even got into our first testing phase, it is unlikely we would do anything like this but it is something we will discuss much further down the track when it is relevant, we have, however, made our subscription model clear.
I am going to close this thread as it is full of off topic comments, personal attacks and promoting/supporting real money trading (RMT) which is not only against the forum guidelines but is also something that ruins MMORPGs, purchasing gold/accounts means you are part of the problem, if people stopped buying these things and using their services, the demand would dry up and these companies would find it much harder to operate, decreasing the amount of gold farmers/sellers in our games but by purchasing their products and supporting their business, you are helping to fund them and keep them going strong, which is not something we support at all.
We will do everything in our power to stop RMT and gold farmer/sellers in Pantheon but it is not something we can stop without your help, so as I said, don't buy their gold and they won't have a market to sell to in Pantheon.