I know Brad and the VR team have said that one of the tenets will be that there will be visable loot. "If you see an NPC wielding a weapon, you should be able to loot it off thier fallen body" Will this apply to armor/bags? I know in EQ 1 if you saw an enemy with an axe,it would have it on its corpse(maybe a rusty axe, but it was an axe), but it was always a crapshoot on whether it was wearing the armor you were hunting for.
Good question
If D'vinn displayed that he had the dagger, it dropped, if he held nothing, no dagger. Similar with froglok assassin iirc? If he had Dagger, no mask/guise drop, if no dagger, you were getting mask/guise?
I assume it wil be similar to that, but would be hilarious to see the shraloks coveting their precious packs and trying to hide them as they spawn, knowing those packs are highly sought out mid-game
I think they are going for "what you see is what you get" for visibles though, and stuff in bags or pockets would be a crapshoot?
The issue with that is the extreme burden it puts on the art team having to make these armor pieces fit every single race that can possibly drop them. It also basically annexes non-humanoid NPCs from being able to drop the armor pieces. As for bags, I doubt it. Severe clipping issues with the armor/model of NPCs that can drop them as well as player models.
I'm not sure we're there yet. Not without an astronomical budget and a lot of time.
Yeah it was always very disappointing when it looked like a mob was carrying a sweet sword, but didn't drop it because it was just part of their appearance. Or conversely, they drop a weapon when they appeared to be carrying nothing and I think, "well why weren't they using this against me? Where did it come from?" And don't get me started about the whole snakes dropping plate boots nonsense. I'm glad for VR's approach. Kinda like a "if you can see it, you can loot it" mentality. They have not gone into a ton of detail such as whether or not necklaces, rings, etc. will be visible or identifiable. But I would expect it to mainly include weapons and armor. I seem to remember them saying a while ago that armor would be visible on mobs, but I could be making that up or it could have changed. Liav has a good point about designing the art to have it fit the mob type AND the character type. A lot easier than just sticking the sword in their hand. But I think it still makes a lot of sense. We will see.
Have we thought about the possibility of players feeling less motivation to even attempt to kill a mob if they can already tell that it's not going to drop the item they want just by looking at it?
Jaced said:Well, I think if its a placeholder it will be killed regardless or if it still gives experience. But, it might make cause some excitement in the zone when people see a mob pop wearing brand new boots.
Placeholders will of course always be killed. I'm talking about the orc trainer being up but obviously not carrying his shield. Maybe it would be a close fight so it's not really worth the risk? I imagine if it was going to be a fairly trivial, then you might as well kill it anyway in hopes that it pops the shield next time around.
Another question: will mobs benefit as if they actually have the item equipped? In other words, with a certain orc be dealing more damage when it appears to be carrying a certain powerful axe (and will therefore drop it) compared to when it is not carrying it?
Bazgrim said:Another question: will mobs benefit as if they actually have the item equipped? In other words, with a certain orc be dealing more damage when it appears to be carrying a certain powerful axe (and will therefore drop it) compared to when it is not carrying it?
Oh I like that idea!
Jaced said:I know Brad and the VR team have said that one of the tenets will be that there will be visable loot. "If you see an NPC wielding a weapon, you should be able to loot it off thier fallen body" Will this apply to armor/bags? I know in EQ 1 if you saw an enemy with an axe,it would have it on its corpse(maybe a rusty axe, but it was an axe), but it was always a crapshoot on whether it was wearing the armor you were hunting for.
Would every guard drop a full set of armor, shield, and weapon?
It was only the handheld items in EQ, I believe, and you could still be fooled on the weapons. Thx Fine Steel! I think they are mainly saying that you won't have a mob attacking you with a sword and then find that it doesn't drop a sword. Would be kind of funny, though, if guards only got one or two pieces of armor. LOL.
Bazgrim said:Yeah it was always very disappointing when it looked like a mob was carrying a sweet sword, but didn't drop it because it was just part of their appearance. Or conversely, they drop a weapon when they appeared to be carrying nothing and I think, "well why weren't they using this against me? Where did it come from?" And don't get me started about the whole snakes dropping plate boots nonsense. I'm glad for VR's approach. Kinda like a "if you can see it, you can loot it" mentality. They have not gone into a ton of detail such as whether or not necklaces, rings, etc. will be visible or identifiable. But I would expect it to mainly include weapons and armor. I seem to remember them saying a while ago that armor would be visible on mobs, but I could be making that up or it could have changed. Liav has a good point about designing the art to have it fit the mob type AND the character type. A lot easier than just sticking the sword in their hand. But I think it still makes a lot of sense. We will see.
Have we thought about the possibility of players feeling less motivation to even attempt to kill a mob if they can already tell that it's not going to drop the item they want just by looking at it?
When..the odd time here or there, I saw a snake drop a larger item like boots for example, I always wondered if it was a boa constrictor in disguise and that it had swallowed some poor dwarf or gnome. :D
bigdogchris said:Skyrim/Fallout 3&4 (single player RPGs) did this really well. As you looted armor you would see it disappear from the corpse.
True but there was too much loot in those games IMO. Literally everything dropped. It became a burden quickly. Probably my least favorite part of games I really enjoyed.
realism vs programming.
Not sure it is worth it to assign entire armor sets to mobs, which is what we are discussing, versus just a skin model.
If they did drop everything you see them wearing, it would mostly have to be crap no one capable of killing them would want, and not good enough to farm and sell to those that could use it, or it just needs to be worse than any loot the average lvl 5 player would already have acquired.
As far as desired loot not always being visible on the named, could it not be as simple as it doesn't fit them so they just carry it in a bag to sell later, much like we PCs do with loot not meant for our class or race?
I've carried armor I had no intention of wearing and weapons I didn't use, in a bag, for the sake of saving for a friend, alt, or selling.
Fulton said:realism vs programming.
Not sure it is worth it to assign entire armor sets to mobs, which is what we are discussing, versus just a skin model.
If they did drop everything you see them wearing, it would mostly have to be crap no one capable of killing them would want, and not good enough to farm and sell to those that could use it, or it just needs to be worse than any loot the average lvl 5 player would already have acquired.
As far as desired loot not always being visible on the named, could it not be as simple as it doesn't fit them so they just carry it in a bag to sell later, much like we PCs do with loot not meant for our class or race?
I've carried armor I had no intention of wearing and weapons I didn't use, in a bag, for the sake of saving for a friend, alt, or selling.
Sure, but you generally have other armor and weapons equipped at the time. I think they are saying that if a humanoid is carrying a weapon, it should probably use it to defend itself rather than just punching you.
Shucklighter said:Fulton said:realism vs programming.
Not sure it is worth it to assign entire armor sets to mobs, which is what we are discussing, versus just a skin model.
If they did drop everything you see them wearing, it would mostly have to be crap no one capable of killing them would want, and not good enough to farm and sell to those that could use it, or it just needs to be worse than any loot the average lvl 5 player would already have acquired.
As far as desired loot not always being visible on the named, could it not be as simple as it doesn't fit them so they just carry it in a bag to sell later, much like we PCs do with loot not meant for our class or race?
I've carried armor I had no intention of wearing and weapons I didn't use, in a bag, for the sake of saving for a friend, alt, or selling.
Sure, but you generally have other armor and weapons equipped at the time. I think they are saying that if a humanoid is carrying a weapon, it should probably use it to defend itself rather than just punching you.
Which is fine, that's how EQ did it. The problem is that it can't really extend to armor and other things, practically. It would be insanely expensive and time consuming. It also, as I said, introduces the issue of non-humanoid NPCs not being able to drop anything that could practically be worn by a humanoid for pretty obvious reasons.
I always found it odd and rather jarring when a non-humanoid mob dropped a humanoid armour or weapon.
Why should you get gold or a dagger from a snake or a fox? I can understand such loot in lairs and dens but not on a mob. If a mob can wear the armour then it should. If it does then it should show and be dropped. If a mob cant wear the armour then it shouldnt drop it (except in its dens when humanoids have been dragged). Have such creatures provide crafting materials.
I think you should be able to look at a mob and have a fair idea of what will a fight will be like and what rewards will be available. It isnt beyond current tech to do this kind of thing. The game becomes more believable and immersive as a result.
chenzeme said:I always found it odd and rather jarring when a non-humanoid mob dropped a humanoid armour or weapon.
Why should you get gold or a dagger from a snake or a fox? I can understand such loot in lairs and dens but not on a mob. If a mob can wear the armour then it should. If it does then it should show and be dropped. If a mob cant wear the armour then it shouldnt drop it (except in its dens when humanoids have been dragged). Have such creatures provide crafting materials.
I think you should be able to look at a mob and have a fair idea of what will a fight will be like and what rewards will be available. It isnt beyond current tech to do this kind of thing. The game becomes more believable and immersive as a result.
Sometimes it makes sense. A fang could make a dagger. A shell might make a good sheild. A fire beetle eye might make a good light source.
If your going for the reality part of this argument then snakes,wolves,bears etc would have no coin drops. And humanoids like skellies and orcs etc would have coin and items. Maybe the bears would drop an "Interesting pelt,maybe a crafter can use it" vs a worn pelt or a ruined pelt. This Interesting pelt should be very rare and make a cloak with certainstats or a bag with weight reduction properties. This should take only one pelt and a certain level in the craft you are working on it. The other normal pelts or skins would be treated like pelts for less wanted armor or bags. Other than this there is really no "reality to a game where animals drop coins and weapon/armor just for the sake of loot drops. And after all this I still like to get a gold or 2 off this wolf I kill.
Isaya said:If your going for the reality part of this argument then snakes,wolves,bears etc would have no coin drops. And humanoids like skellies and orcs etc would have coin and items. Maybe the bears would drop an "Interesting pelt,maybe a crafter can use it" vs a worn pelt or a ruined pelt. This Interesting pelt should be very rare and make a cloak with certainstats or a bag with weight reduction properties. This should take only one pelt and a certain level in the craft you are working on it. The other normal pelts or skins would be treated like pelts for less wanted armor or bags. Other than this there is really no "reality to a game where animals drop coins and weapon/armor just for the sake of loot drops. And after all this I still like to get a gold or 2 off this wolf I kill.
Or we could have a crafting skill like skinning to help with armor crafting. :)
UnknownQuantity said:bigdogchris said:Skyrim/Fallout 3&4 (single player RPGs) did this really well. As you looted armor you would see it disappear from the corpse.
True but there was too much loot in those games IMO. Literally everything dropped. It became a burden quickly. Probably my least favorite part of games I really enjoyed.
There is no rule saying you must loot everything.
Bazgrim said:Jaced said:Well, I think if its a placeholder it will be killed regardless or if it still gives experience. But, it might make cause some excitement in the zone when people see a mob pop wearing brand new boots.
Placeholders will of course always be killed. I'm talking about the orc trainer being up but obviously not carrying his shield. Maybe it would be a close fight so it's not really worth the risk? I imagine if it was going to be a fairly trivial, then you might as well kill it anyway in hopes that it pops the shield next time around.
Another question: will mobs benefit as if they actually have the item equipped? In other words, with a certain orc be dealing more damage when it appears to be carrying a certain powerful axe (and will therefore drop it) compared to when it is not carrying it?
Gnoll Lariets! You knew it was going to drop because that little bugger was whipping you firstly and also it was procing every few hits, i hope damage and proc's are included in mobs weapons!
Regarding mobs dropping all armour they are seen wearing... maybe you could have broken versions of the armour (broken in battle and able to be repaired by a smith or somthing) and the chance of a piece or 2 being intact that can be worn as they are. All in all i dont think it is really a necessary feature to loot everything that you can see a mob wearing graphically but it would be cool no doubt!
