I’m not sure why we need a mechanic to do what has been done for years in chat or voice, and thats ask who's ready, if someone doesn't respond well their not ready.
To the “ninja looting”, I would hope this would not be a problem since loot should be controlled by the raid leader(s), a free for all grab bag in a raid/group just asks for abuse. I’d rather trust in one person to handle the loot vs countless random personalities with their own agenda.
HemlockReaper said:I’m not sure why we need a mechanic to do what has been done for years in chat or voice, and thats ask who's ready, if someone doesn't respond well their not ready.
To the “ninja looting”, I would hope this would not be a problem since loot should be controlled by the raid leader(s), a free for all grab bag in a raid/group just asks for abuse. I’d rather trust in one person to handle the loot vs countless random personalities with their own agenda.
I'm assuming you might have missed part of this thread where it discusses the reason for asking if there is a desire for it in-game, and in my posts it details why I think it would be nice to have in game and my reasons for thinking it could help raids in some small way.
In a nutshell, it comes down to the literal term "ninja AFK" meaning to AFK without anyone finding out for an indefinite period of time. They hit that raid ready button and then instantly or after a few spells, tab out to do whatever, and make it back in time for the loot rolls and DKP
Hope that answers the why part
-edit. again, that spelling thing.
Portalgun said:HemlockReaper said:I’m not sure why we need a mechanic to do what has been done for years in chat or voice, and thats ask who's ready, if someone doesn't respond well their not ready.
To the “ninja looting”, I would hope this would not be a problem since loot should be controlled by the raid leader(s), a free for all grab bag in a raid/group just asks for abuse. I’d rather trust in one person to handle the loot vs countless random personalities with their own agenda.
I'm assuming you might have missed part of this thread where it discusses the reason for asking if there is a desire for it in-game, and in my posts it details why I think it would be nice to have in game and my reasons for thinking it could help raids in some small way.
In a nutshell, it comes down to the literal term "ninja AFK" meaning to AFK without anyone finding out for an indefinite period of time. They hit that raid ready button and then instantly or after a few spells, tab out to do whatever, and make it back in time for the loot rolls and DKP
Hope that answers the why part
-edit. again, that spelling thing.
I have no desire to see this “ReadyCheck” or similar notification feature in the game, it serves no purpose in my opinion. Your basically asking for a feature to inform you when someone is afk so you can adjust their worth though out the raid. That doesn't really give a proper picture of someone pulling their weight. I could easily do just enough to keep from being AFK, but not really pull my weight.
If were going to measure Worth based on performance during the raid, id rather see one the accounted for how much damage you did, or how much healing, how many mobs mezzed, how many near death saves the cleric made, or how many times the tank pulled argo away from the healer or mage, ect a system that accounted for someone playing their class well, where each damage deal, healed done ect gained points that can be visibly shown at the end of the raid, in a sorta DKP style list.
Portalgun said:(...)
In a nutshell, it comes down to the literal term "ninja AFK" meaning to AFK without anyone finding out for an indefinite period of time. They hit that raid ready button and then instantly or after a few spells, tab out to do whatever, and make it back in time for the loot rolls and DKP
(...)
I can't imagine how that can even be a thing. How can it be one, though? Are the raids designed for frequent AFKers in mind? I mean, haven't they scripts or fail conditions of any sort? Honest question, because this just boggles me.
Duffy said:I can't imagine how that can even be a thing. How can it be one, though? Are the raids designed for frequent AFKers in mind? I mean, haven't they scripts or fail conditions of any sort? Honest question, because this just boggles me.
In the days before parsing and the ultra simplistic encounter design of EQ, yeah, pretty much. With classes like Rangers you can probably do that anyway even in today's game and not lose DPS for it. I've personally gone AFK for entire fights on permarooted mobs and no one knew. =/
Liav said:Duffy said:I can't imagine how that can even be a thing. How can it be one, though? Are the raids designed for frequent AFKers in mind? I mean, haven't they scripts or fail conditions of any sort? Honest question, because this just boggles me.
In the days before parsing and the ultra simplistic encounter design of EQ, yeah, pretty much. With classes like Rangers you can probably do that anyway even in today's game and not lose DPS for it. I've personally gone AFK for entire fights on permarooted mobs and no one knew. =/
Exactly, with EQ's ultra simplistic raid encounters, which is what I am afraid of seeing in Pantheon, allows for this. Almost incourages it.
I play a Ranger on the TLP Ragefire server. We regularly clear Temple of Veeshan. I love the part of the night when we get to Lady Nev. The fight has a spell that is a massive AE stun that spins you in circles. As a Ranger with the Archery AAs though all I do is stand in one spot outside the stun's range and shoot with my bow. The fight can last 30-1 hour depending. Thats when I toogle autofire on and afk for the fight. Grab a drink use the restroom and such. Returning 15-20 minute later and we are halfway through the fight. This is the sort of thing that should not be possible in a raid. It should be more involved. I am contributing to the fight because I am dpsing, but this is unique to the Ranger in EQ alone. No other class can afk for an entire fight and still contribute to the same extent they could if they were at the computer. The melee need to be using short reuse timer abilities and casters must be casting spells to contribute at full ability. The only ability the Ranger can use to contribute more (at this level in this era of the game) is Trueshot which is a 1 hour + cooldown and some DoT spells which add negligable DPS and I would be far out of range on using my spells in the above case.
My thoughts on this because im bored. AFKing on raids happens more often during encounters you have done over and over. The thrill is gone and you know the encounter well enough to just auto pilot through it in most cases. Can it be a problem, it depends on who is leading the raid.
On new encounters we normally had a breaking crew best of the best within the guild which would sit there for hours while we push through trash mobs to get to a boss and then sit several more hours trying to beat it. ( this was in the past as currenlty i dont have a guild anymore)
I dont know as far as kicking out people who dont pull their weight but it always factors in when you look over whos online for a raid/group.
I have mellowed out some in the last 10-15 years of playing which went from ultra hardcore to meh. For a group, as long as we can chain pull mobs i stay happy. For a raid, show up be ready and know your role.
itvar said:I almost always run some kind of log parser, so it is blatantly obvious to me when someone isn't pulling their weight. I don't think anything needs to be built into pantheon when 3rd party tools to make combat logs human-friendly exist. Seems to me something the raid leader should be pro active about than expecting the game to do it for them. Just my opinion tho.
This is basically the solution. No raid leader worth their salt will not be checking logs. It's easy to spot the people afk and/or simply not pulling their weight. Those people ... well they don't last long in my raid. AFKs happen. Sometimes without time for a statement to be made. Hell I had our MT get literally swatted and arrested mid raid once. **** happens. But the ninja afk's usually don't happen often. If its a guild raid and its happening then kick the person and move on. If its a pug, same result. Really is no reason to waste dev time on something like this when there are already ways to see.
HemlockReaper said:I have no desire to see this “ReadyCheck” or similar notification feature in the game, it serves no purpose in my opinion. Your basically asking for a feature to inform you when someone is afk so you can adjust their worth though out the raid. That doesn't really give a proper picture of someone pulling their weight. I could easily do just enough to keep from being AFK, but not really pull my weight.
If were going to measure Worth based on performance during the raid, id rather see one the accounted for how much damage you did, or how much healing, how many mobs mezzed, how many near death saves the cleric made, or how many times the tank pulled argo away from the healer or mage, ect a system that accounted for someone playing their class well, where each damage deal, healed done ect gained points that can be visibly shown at the end of the raid, in a sorta DKP style list.
Think you misunderstand the normal use of a ready check ... 99.9% of us use it to make sure everyone is there before a main fight. Starting boss fights with people afk usually ends up in wipes. So no ready check has nothing to do with evaluating someones "worth" that's what dps meters are for :P
Enitzu said:Think you misunderstand the normal use of a ready check ... 99.9% of us use it to make sure everyone is there before a main fight. Starting boss fights with people afk usually ends up in wipes. So no ready check has nothing to do with evaluating someones "worth" that's what dps meters are for :P
Yep. Ready check is glorious. Not sure where the misconceptions about its use come from.
Liav said:Enitzu said:Think you misunderstand the normal use of a ready check ... 99.9% of us use it to make sure everyone is there before a main fight. Starting boss fights with people afk usually ends up in wipes. So no ready check has nothing to do with evaluating someones "worth" that's what dps meters are for :P
Yep. Ready check is glorious. Not sure where the misconceptions about its use come from.
It's an amazing tool. A bit flabbergasted that some people don't grasp its importance. It's a quick concise way to see if you're good to pull or not. I find it hard to believe anyone who has lead raids in any serious capacity (more than a few times, progression, time limited, etc) wouldn't want it.
Faelor said:Liav said:Enitzu said:Think you misunderstand the normal use of a ready check ... 99.9% of us use it to make sure everyone is there before a main fight. Starting boss fights with people afk usually ends up in wipes. So no ready check has nothing to do with evaluating someones "worth" that's what dps meters are for :P
Yep. Ready check is glorious. Not sure where the misconceptions about its use come from.
It's an amazing tool. A bit flabbergasted that some people don't grasp its importance. It's a quick concise way to see if you're good to pull or not. I find it hard to believe anyone who has lead raids in any serious capacity (more than a few times, progression, time limited, etc) wouldn't want it.
The common sentiment seems to be that any form of convenience in gameplay/user interface is inherently bad for the game and is a one-way ticket to a themepark WoW clone.
It's unfortunate but that's about the only justification I see against things like this.