Kilsin said:It isn't ridiculous at all, again, that is your personal opinion, not all banks are connected around the world, banks here in Australia wouldn't give you money, just like I couldn't withdraw money from a US or EU bank, there are also local and community banks that don't even work with the big banks and in Terminus we will test with a bank on each continent to see how well it works in our game with other systems in place that complement the travel and experiences.
Basically, we are not making a "convenient" game and it creates opportunities for experiences, which is the building block for any game with RPG in the title.
In all fairness, appealing to reality doesn't necessarily entail a positive result from a mechanic.
As for convenience and creating opportunities for experiences, have a questline that takes a week to complete to allow you to access a banker would accomplish that. However, I think having such a quest would be a terrible design decision.
I also don't think insinuating that universal banks would make Pantheon a "convenient game" is accurate. I've said it before quite a lot on these forums, but adding inconvenience into every nook and cranny you can find just for the sake of it isn't good design.
Regardless, we'll see how it works in action and (hopefully) adjust from there if it turns out to be needless.
Liav said:Kilsin said:It isn't ridiculous at all, again, that is your personal opinion, not all banks are connected around the world, banks here in Australia wouldn't give you money, just like I couldn't withdraw money from a US or EU bank, there are also local and community banks that don't even work with the big banks and in Terminus we will test with a bank on each continent to see how well it works in our game with other systems in place that complement the travel and experiences.
Basically, we are not making a "convenient" game and it creates opportunities for experiences, which is the building block for any game with RPG in the title.
In all fairness, appealing to reality doesn't necessarily entail a positive result from a mechanic.
As for convenience and creating opportunities for experiences, have a questline that takes a week to complete to allow you to access a banker would accomplish that. However, I think having such a quest would be a terrible design decision.
I also don't think insinuating that universal banks would make Pantheon a "convenient game" is accurate. I've said it before quite a lot on these forums, but adding inconvenience into every nook and cranny you can find just for the sake of it isn't good design.
Regardless, we'll see how it works in action and (hopefully) adjust from there if it turns out to be needless.
Opinions will differ, I dont think they are adding invonvenience for the sake of it mate, Kilsin mentioned one of the reasons they would like to try and do banking like this. I am one who enjoys travel and also one who enjoys using and creating player made solutions in game to get around these things. For instance lets think about this for a second, in a well populated game with some classes who can port (we'll see, maybe not many.. if any *Go NZ hip hop haha*) and end up making a career out of porting from time to time there is going to be plenty of opportunities to pay a friendly druid to take you to a location near the bank. I think giving players opportuniities to create mini businesses inside the world is somthing the Devs would REALLY like to see, they have stated they love seeing player made innovation in game to tackle some of the hurdles they have laid out for us.
Hokanu said:Opinions will differ, I dont think they are adding invonvenience for the sake of it mate, Kilsin mentioned one of the reasons they would like to try and do banking like this. I am one who enjoys travel and also one who enjoys using and creating player made solutions in game to get around these things. For instance lets think about this for a second, in a well populated game with some classes who can port (we'll see, maybe not many.. if any *Go NZ hip hop haha*) and end up making a career out of porting from time to time there is going to be plenty of opportunities to pay a friendly druid to take you to a location near the bank. I think giving players opportuniities to create mini businesses inside the world is somthing the Devs would REALLY like to see, they have stated they love seeing player made innovation in game to tackle some of the hurdles they have laid out for us.
I understand. I just can't help but be skeptical. I feel like this is a particular instance where it isn't warranted, but we'll see.
Liav said:Hokanu said:Opinions will differ, I dont think they are adding invonvenience for the sake of it mate, Kilsin mentioned one of the reasons they would like to try and do banking like this. I am one who enjoys travel and also one who enjoys using and creating player made solutions in game to get around these things. For instance lets think about this for a second, in a well populated game with some classes who can port (we'll see, maybe not many.. if any *Go NZ hip hop haha*) and end up making a career out of porting from time to time there is going to be plenty of opportunities to pay a friendly druid to take you to a location near the bank. I think giving players opportuniities to create mini businesses inside the world is somthing the Devs would REALLY like to see, they have stated they love seeing player made innovation in game to tackle some of the hurdles they have laid out for us.
I understand. I just can't help but be skeptical. I feel like this is a particular instance where it isn't warranted, but we'll see.
And people vocalising their skepticism is so important to drive these conversations, always enjoy reading you posts Liav
Kilsin said:Gragorie said:I had a max crafter in all 6 spheres in VG and continental banking never bothered me. I had a house on Qalia, with a broker, bank and crafting station nearby. I went out of my way to make sure I only kept crafting stuff in qalia bank. Also, my weaponsmith was a miner, leatherworker a skinner, tailor a reaper, and so on to keep the raw mats on the toons that needed them. 5 of my 6 crafters were mainly crafters 1st, and only high enough level adv wise to survive in areas they needed to harvest in. So there bags were mainly crafting/harvesting stuff as well, and banks were barely used. I will say my weaponsmith that raided that was an MT, did my mining/quarrying, and max diplo did have major storage issues, and it was I would have to spend more time with him clearing out spaces and making room. I would not have had him raid if I could go back and do it again. I would say the issue was not banking, but lack of storage on toons to do all 4 spheres and be able to keep everything where you needed it.
Yeah, I had a similar story and character set up man and without any issues either, I kept crafting mats/gear on Qalia, combat/raid on Thestra and Misc and other bits and pieces on Kojan and I actually enjoyed travelling around to those places.
We will need to make sure our bank space is big enough to contain everything comfortably because we also will require players to store climate gear etc. for different weather and elements.
So I tend to be a packrat (I collect odd items that I find hoping they'll be useful later) I also craft and harvest mats some of which I donate to my guild if they need....so no shareable bank slots between crafting alts I presume? :)
Hokanu said:Liav said:Kilsin said:It isn't ridiculous at all, again, that is your personal opinion, not all banks are connected around the world, banks here in Australia wouldn't give you money, just like I couldn't withdraw money from a US or EU bank, there are also local and community banks that don't even work with the big banks and in Terminus we will test with a bank on each continent to see how well it works in our game with other systems in place that complement the travel and experiences.
Basically, we are not making a "convenient" game and it creates opportunities for experiences, which is the building block for any game with RPG in the title.
In all fairness, appealing to reality doesn't necessarily entail a positive result from a mechanic.
As for convenience and creating opportunities for experiences, have a questline that takes a week to complete to allow you to access a banker would accomplish that. However, I think having such a quest would be a terrible design decision.
I also don't think insinuating that universal banks would make Pantheon a "convenient game" is accurate. I've said it before quite a lot on these forums, but adding inconvenience into every nook and cranny you can find just for the sake of it isn't good design.
Regardless, we'll see how it works in action and (hopefully) adjust from there if it turns out to be needless.
Opinions will differ, I dont think they are adding invonvenience for the sake of it mate, Kilsin mentioned one of the reasons they would like to try and do banking like this. I am one who enjoys travel and also one who enjoys using and creating player made solutions in game to get around these things. For instance lets think about this for a second, in a well populated game with some classes who can port (we'll see, maybe not many.. if any *Go NZ hip hop haha*) and end up making a career out of porting from time to time there is going to be plenty of opportunities to pay a friendly druid to take you to a location near the bank. I think giving players opportuniities to create mini businesses inside the world is somthing the Devs would REALLY like to see, they have stated they love seeing player made innovation in game to tackle some of the hurdles they have laid out for us.
Spot on :)
/raps uh huh, I don't know, anybody :D
Liav said:Kilsin said:It isn't ridiculous at all, again, that is your personal opinion, not all banks are connected around the world, banks here in Australia wouldn't give you money, just like I couldn't withdraw money from a US or EU bank, there are also local and community banks that don't even work with the big banks and in Terminus we will test with a bank on each continent to see how well it works in our game with other systems in place that complement the travel and experiences.
Basically, we are not making a "convenient" game and it creates opportunities for experiences, which is the building block for any game with RPG in the title.
In all fairness, appealing to reality doesn't necessarily entail a positive result from a mechanic.
As for convenience and creating opportunities for experiences, have a questline that takes a week to complete to allow you to access a banker would accomplish that. However, I think having such a quest would be a terrible design decision.
I also don't think insinuating that universal banks would make Pantheon a "convenient game" is accurate. I've said it before quite a lot on these forums, but adding inconvenience into every nook and cranny you can find just for the sake of it isn't good design.
Regardless, we'll see how it works in action and (hopefully) adjust from there if it turns out to be needless.
I was just using it as an example of how it is not so ridiculous and happens a lot, even in the real world, it doesn't mean we will implement it because it is a reality but it was an easy to understand comparison for the general public to know what I was talking about, when I post, I have to post with the thought in the back of my mind that the media is watching and could publicise my posts or quote me, therefore, I make easy to understand comparison's which is not something I tend to do in real life, I am happy to talk at a much higher level in person but for my role as CM I need to be clear and understood by all as a representative of Visionary Realms.
I also wasn't insinuating anything, I counter used the word "convenient" because Zew used it in his argument, I was just trying to make the point that by spreading banks out (or any common POI/heavy traffic end point) it forces the players to travel and opens up a world of new opportunities and experiences in our immersive MMORPG, and along with other systems, features and mechanics it all plays a vital part to help give a better overall experience or experiences for the players in a social game, it is that simple.
As I originally said, we will test it and see if it works in our game, like with many other things we have in mind, before making a final decision.
CanadinaXegony said:Kilsin said:Gragorie said:I had a max crafter in all 6 spheres in VG and continental banking never bothered me. I had a house on Qalia, with a broker, bank and crafting station nearby. I went out of my way to make sure I only kept crafting stuff in qalia bank. Also, my weaponsmith was a miner, leatherworker a skinner, tailor a reaper, and so on to keep the raw mats on the toons that needed them. 5 of my 6 crafters were mainly crafters 1st, and only high enough level adv wise to survive in areas they needed to harvest in. So there bags were mainly crafting/harvesting stuff as well, and banks were barely used. I will say my weaponsmith that raided that was an MT, did my mining/quarrying, and max diplo did have major storage issues, and it was I would have to spend more time with him clearing out spaces and making room. I would not have had him raid if I could go back and do it again. I would say the issue was not banking, but lack of storage on toons to do all 4 spheres and be able to keep everything where you needed it.
Yeah, I had a similar story and character set up man and without any issues either, I kept crafting mats/gear on Qalia, combat/raid on Thestra and Misc and other bits and pieces on Kojan and I actually enjoyed travelling around to those places.
We will need to make sure our bank space is big enough to contain everything comfortably because we also will require players to store climate gear etc. for different weather and elements.
So I tend to be a packrat (I collect odd items that I find hoping they'll be useful later) I also craft and harvest mats some of which I donate to my guild if they need....so no shareable bank slots between crafting alts I presume? :)
Probably not but again, this is something we will have to test and balance to know for sure :)
I like the idea of local banking. Not really for the realism but more that it gets you out into the world. A 10 minute travel to another continent could lead to anything. You could find a rare named NPC, a pickup raid is forming to take down an overland boss, or you buff some newbie and create a new friendship. I think it has more potential to add to the social game than running to the nearest global bank.
Any thoughts on adding banking fees? The only purpose of banks is storage in most mmorpgs. They're not making money from free banking and they're definitely not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Qailias said:I like the idea of local banking. Not really for the realism but more that it gets you out into the world. A 10 minute travel to another continent could lead to anything. You could find a rare named NPC, a pickup raid is forming to take down an overland boss, or you buff some newbie and create a new friendship. I think it has more potential to add to the social game than running to the nearest global bank.
Any thoughts on adding banking fees? The only purpose of banks is storage in most mmorpgs. They're not making money from free banking and they're definitely not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
These are exactly the experiences I was referring too, nice one Qailias :)
This is such a great thread with actual, productive debating. I agree 100% with the original post. Coming from UO and EQ, community meant everything. You could not be an ass without feeling the reprocussions. People would get blacklisted from groups or raids non-stop on Fennin Ro for doing that. To me, the "hard" or "difficult" mechanics is what help form those relationships. Every single one of those Myths were opportunities to meet new people.
Myth 1: People will not tolerate a game without Inta-Travel
Need a port? Ask a local Druid or Wizard. Need a speed buff? Ask a Druid, Shaman, or even a Bard. Those conversations could turn into a friendship you never would have had if you just clicked on a NPC. There are SO many times where I have tipped an absurb amount for ports, we added each other to friends lists, and that formed lasting relationships within the game.
Myth 2: We're not college students anymore; no one got time for six hours dungeon
Well this is somewhat true. I don't have the time I used to have playing. However, the shorter playing time does NOT mean I won't enjoy the time I have in game. People exagerate when they say that they only have 2 hours to play and the entire 2 hours is spent LFG or traveling. Even in EQ as a Necro, which was notorious for never filling a spot in a group, I could find things to do in a limited session. You do not have to be grinding xp 24/7 to make "progress". I PRAY there is zero chance of an LFG system like other games have. That absolutely destroys communities.
Myth 3: Corpse Runs are a thing of the past and will make you lose subscribers if you implement it
Oh I wish corpse runs are going to be implimented in some form. Much like a lot of people have said, this forms so many relationships both good and bad. Sure there are the people that push it further in as a joke, but they will have to deal with what happens to their reputation. There is more good that comes from those encounters though. I always made sure I had a stack of tiny coffins on my Necro to help out others or even myself. People tipped, added me to friends lists, invited me to groups when I needed them, all because I was helpful to them. Most of the time I would just ask for the cost of the coffin if anything at all. However most of the time, they gave me more than that... they gave me friendship.
The difficulty and sense of an actual community is what is missing for almost all games today. That is just my opinion at least. I seriously cannot wait to help test this game out in Alpha and in Beta. By test, I mean actual test. Not play it to get a "preview". I want to help test it to make the game better for the actual release.
Kilsin said:I was just using it as an example of how it is not so ridiculous and happens a lot, even in the real world, it doesn't mean we will implement it because it is a reality but it was an easy to understand comparison for the general public to know what I was talking about, when I post, I have to post with the thought in the back of my mind that the media is watching and could publicise my posts or quote me, therefore, I make easy to understand comparison's which is not something I tend to do in real life, I am happy to talk at a much higher level in person but for my role as CM I need to be clear and understood by all as a representative of Visionary Realms.
I also wasn't insinuating anything, I counter used the word "convenient" because Zew used it in his argument, I was just trying to make the point that by spreading banks out (or any common POI/heavy traffic end point) it forces the players to travel and opens up a world of new opportunities and experiences in our immersive MMORPG, and along with other systems, features and mechanics it all plays a vital part to help give a better overall experience or experiences for the players in a social game, it is that simple.
As I originally said, we will test it and see if it works in our game, like with many other things we have in mind, before making a final decision.
The thought literally never occurred to me that MMORPG media likely watches you like a hawk, here. That does definitely add a lot of context.