That's hilarious. Trust me, I've been in the position where I wake up after letting a little too loose, and I have to figure out how much damage control is needed. Drunken saltyness aside, some of us actually agreed with what you were bringing to light. It just felt a little early to sound the alarm bells, and you being a mean drunk didn't help! :)
No hard feelings here.
Martell said: I was an ass the other night - post work Christmas party. I was drunk and angry. Most of the points I made I actually do believe, but under normal circumstances I would never be so rude. Community- I apologize. (I really was shitfaced, I have no idea why I came here.)
no problem, it shows what kind of a person you really are when you come and say sorry. no hard feelings on my part. =)
@Martell Look on the bright side... you got drunk and spoke too harshly and then apoligized. Problem solved! At least you didn't get drunk and then decide it was Friday Night Drunk Night IN GAME too and peer pressure your WHOLE group into stripping down nekkid and running dungeons with the ONLY allowable gear and items being what they looted while playing.... only to wake up Saturday morning with a whole lot of hungover friends, corpses to find, and XP to re-earn...... (now THAT would be hard to live down.... /meh!!! :>)
Martell said: I was an ass the other night - post work Christmas party. I was drunk and angry. Most of the points I made I actually do believe, but under normal circumstances I would never be so rude. Community- I apologize. (I really was shitfaced, I have no idea why I came here.)
You gain +1 to respect.
Don't sweat it bro.
As a simple note--I for one read just about every forum post. Given the size of the team right now we cannot work on every system at once. Some are further along than others. Some are mainly ideas. I appreciate constructive criticism--I like this idea and here are some others. Or even I don't like the way this sounds. Here is why. Here are some suggestions.
I have a binder that I keep with me where I write these things down. Some ideas or desires are the complete opposite of what other people want. That is natural and sometimes we creatively will have to decide what to do. We expect our community to debate those differences with respect--we all have different wants and expectations and that is a matter of preference and not truth.
As Kilsin said, the Twitch stream shows a lot of very early work. It's funny to read passionate posts about how unfinished the game looks right alongside posts about how the game looks finished and everone should be able to play right now. The fact is that some things look pretty fun (and are) and others are not. I wouldn't say any of us are gloating about things like the quest or perception system. We certainly want to explain the philosophy and what we expect to do and generate discussion in the community and internally. But it is basically everything you just saw so far. It has had very little work done and may be nothing like that in the end. Some things require trust. Trust that the right people with the right experience will make the right decisions. I have watched many games fail because a dev team had some specific ideas about how things should work but they weren't fun. And rather than change them they stuck to their guns anyway. Part of showing and discussing game components in an early stage are to avoid falling into that trap. On the other hand we expect our community to work with us rather than make broad assumptions to use as fodder against us.
I was very tempted to chime in and address these things last night but won't do so if it is in the middle of posts motivated by either contempt or disrespect, as that isn't productive. If you want my ear you need to be mindful that we are gamers like you, we work intimately on this project as a true team, and we want to make a game that we will all play together for many years. So construct that criticism and deliver it in a thoughtful manner, and you'll get results whenever possible.
The main thing we need for success is a community backing us. A community that gets people interested and excited about our game. This leads to new investments and new opportunities. Trashing us on the forums likely has the opposite effect, even if the feedback is valid. We don't want to stifle dissent when it can lead to productive discussion. That happens internally as well.
I know communication has not always been what it should be. There are reasons for that--some good, some not. Do realize we are watching and it doesn't require a ton of posts and argument for us to get the point.
I personally appreciate each and every one of you for putting your time and money on the stake, and that we take that seriously and value all thoughts and ideas. You are also welcome to private message me with particular concerns. I can't be an open book for the team, as that is not my role, but I can make sure your concerns are addressed.
Zippyzee
I thought the responses seemed overly angry and laden with profanity...
Only a mature individual comes and does exactly what you did here. Obviously everyone won't agree on what they want out of the game in every way, but being able to be respectful to others and acknowledge the mistake gets huge kudos from me, for as little as the kudos from a stranger on a video game message board could be worth :). No harm done here.
Man, on a side note...what the hell kind of Christmas party leads to that kind of response and drives on here of all places?!
zippyzee said:As a simple note--I for one read just about every forum post. Given the size of the team right now we cannot work on every system at once. Some are further along than others. Some are mainly ideas. I appreciate constructive criticism--I like this idea and here are some others. Or even I don't like the way this sounds. Here is why. Here are some suggestions.
I have a binder that I keep with me where I write these things down. Some ideas or desires are the complete opposite of what other people want. That is natural and sometimes we creatively will have to decide what to do. We expect our community to debate those differences with respect--we all have different wants and expectations and that is a matter of preference and not truth.
As Kilsin said, the Twitch stream shows a lot of very early work. It's funny to read passionate posts about how unfinished the game looks right alongside posts about how the game looks finished and everone should be able to play right now. The fact is that some things look pretty fun (and are) and others are not. I wouldn't say any of us are gloating about things like the quest or perception system. We certainly want to explain the philosophy and what we expect to do and generate discussion in the community and internally. But it is basically everything you just saw so far. It has had very little work done and may be nothing like that in the end. Some things require trust. Trust that the right people with the right experience will make the right decisions. I have watched many games fail because a dev team had some specific ideas about how things should work but they weren't fun. And rather than change them they stuck to their guns anyway. Part of showing and discussing game components in an early stage are to avoid falling into that trap. On the other hand we expect our community to work with us rather than make broad assumptions to use as fodder against us.
I was very tempted to chime in and address these things last night but won't do so if it is in the middle of posts motivated by either contempt or disrespect, as that isn't productive. If you want my ear you need to be mindful that we are gamers like you, we work intimately on this project as a true team, and we want to make a game that we will all play together for many years. So construct that criticism and deliver it in a thoughtful manner, and you'll get results whenever possible.
The main thing we need for success is a community backing us. A community that gets people interested and excited about our game. This leads to new investments and new opportunities. Trashing us on the forums likely has the opposite effect, even if the feedback is valid. We don't want to stifle dissent when it can lead to productive discussion. That happens internally as well.
I know communication has not always been what it should be. There are reasons for that--some good, some not. Do realize we are watching and it doesn't require a ton of posts and argument for us to get the point.
I personally appreciate each and every one of you for putting your time and money on the stake, and that we take that seriously and value all thoughts and ideas. You are also welcome to private message me with particular concerns. I can't be an open book for the team, as that is not my role, but I can make sure your concerns are addressed.
Zippyzee
Well said, mate.
Martell, I appreciate the PM discussion we had and am glad you are back to your normal self, it takes a lot to man up to a mistake and I appreciate that, let's hope it was a lesson learned for you and others watching ;)
I will, however, have to move this to Off-Topic as it does not belong in General Pantheon.
Martell said: I was an ass the other night - post work Christmas party. I was drunk and angry. Most of the points I made I actually do believe, but under normal circumstances I would never be so rude. Community- I apologize. (I really was shitfaced, I have no idea why I came here.)
All I have to say is kudos for admitting it, it's never easy to appologize after making an as of oneself, I think we've all been in your shoes at least once :)
Very nice man. Apology accepted. As a side note, what server did you play on in DDO?
You're not alone, I've had my share of drunk internet opinion sharing, laugh it off. Side note, drunk mmorpg'ing is awesome, back before npc corpse summoning in EQ I woke up hungover to find my character still logged in, at his bind point, naked. Took me 2 hours of going to different zones and typing /corpse before I got the message, 'You are too far away to drag this corpse'. Good times.
coach said:You're not alone, I've had my share of drunk internet opinion sharing, laugh it off. Side note, drunk mmorpg'ing is awesome, back before npc corpse summoning in EQ I woke up hungover to find my character still logged in, at his bind point, naked. Took me 2 hours of going to different zones and typing /corpse before I got the message, 'You are too far away to drag this corpse'. Good times.
DrunkQuest! many a night spent doing the same
