While I do love a challenge. I dislike this idea. (Nice idea to think about tho). Why do I dislike it?
- How does that enemy (the one that breaks the mezz) know his mob ally is even mezzed? - I could understand it if the mob had a high level of intelligence (ie humanoids), arcane knowledge or was recieving some type of benefit spell from that enemy then it suddenly stops (healing); but what if the enemies were of different types/factions? I mean you put two enemies together their naturally not going to assist one another unless it's the same faction/known friendly right?
- Won't this minish the effectiveness of an enchanter vs someone with root? I mean with root you can hit mobs and they stay rooted, mezz they break instantly. Wouldn't this make people choose root over mezz in most cases because you'd have to pull them back from the mezzed mobs anyway like you do with root? Something to think about... unless you have them break root too in one hit too?
- Also becareful what you wish for.. I mean lots of people here on the forums are already talking about wanting NPC's to be really intelligent. If you've done any sort of scripted a.i. programming it gets to a point where the a.i. is litterally as smart as you are. Can you imagine an enemy doing what we would do? As in.. you pull an orc and instead of it running after you it falls back and shouts for help and forms a group/raid? >>>> Train inc.. combine that with the mezz mechanic above = death on every pull. Like I said.. becareful what you wish for when you apparently really "want" high intelligence a.i. (trust me you don't really really want it.)
But there are my three main reasons.. I think it's complicated enough.. what with the enviroment strategies too. *shrugs* - that's my opinion anyway.
Nimryl said:While I do love a challenge. I dislike this idea. (Nice idea to think about tho). Why do I dislike it?
- How does that enemy (the one that breaks the mezz) know his mob ally is even mezzed? - I could understand it if the mob had a high level of intelligence (ie humanoids), arcane knowledge or was recieving some type of benefit spell from that enemy then it suddenly stops (healing); but what if the enemies were of different types/factions? I mean you put two enemies together their naturally not going to assist one another unless it's the same faction/known friendly right?
- Won't this minish the effectiveness of an enchanter vs someone with root? I mean with root you can hit mobs and they stay rooted, mezz they break instantly. Wouldn't this make people choose root over mezz in most cases because you'd have to pull them back from the mezzed mobs anyway like you do with root? Something to think about... unless you have them break root too in one hit too?
- Also becareful what you wish for.. I mean lots of people here on the forums are already talking about wanting NPC's to be really intelligent. If you've done any sort of scripted a.i. programming it gets to a point where the a.i. is litterally as smart as you are. Can you imagine an enemy doing what we would do? As in.. you pull an orc and instead of it running after you it falls back and shouts for help and forms a group/raid? >>>> Train inc.. combine that with the mezz mechanic above = death on every pull. Like I said.. becareful what you wish for when you apparently really "want" high intelligence a.i. (trust me you don't really really want it.)
But there are my three main reasons.. I think it's complicated enough.. what with the enviroment strategies too. *shrugs* - that's my opinion anyway.
On your first point, I think such intelligence shouldn't be the norm; but the threshold doesn't have to be that high to see your ally is standing there doing nothing. This could perhaps be loaded into a particular "NPC disposition", so there is only a chance of a mob having this ability. Having a variety of different types of mobs will make combat less predictable and probably more engaging for most people. Opposing factions also wouldn't help each other in that scenario.
As far as roots, I think those too should be subject to dispel. If having mobs buff and heal each other was fun, I think allowing some of them to occasionally remove your roots or dots would be more fun.
Obviously some caution has to be exercised when creating mob AI, but in a sense, dying mobs already sought out others by fleeing. I actually suggested this very mechanic for dealing with high levels farming low level content. If a player attacks a mob that has no chance of killing them, I think it would be great for them to immediately flee until they have enough allies to give that player a challenge. That's some next level stuff, imo, and what we should expect from Pantheon.
Dullahan said:Nimryl said:While I do love a challenge. I dislike this idea. (Nice idea to think about tho). Why do I dislike it?
- How does that enemy (the one that breaks the mezz) know his mob ally is even mezzed? - I could understand it if the mob had a high level of intelligence (ie humanoids), arcane knowledge or was recieving some type of benefit spell from that enemy then it suddenly stops (healing); but what if the enemies were of different types/factions? I mean you put two enemies together their naturally not going to assist one another unless it's the same faction/known friendly right?
- Won't this minish the effectiveness of an enchanter vs someone with root? I mean with root you can hit mobs and they stay rooted, mezz they break instantly. Wouldn't this make people choose root over mezz in most cases because you'd have to pull them back from the mezzed mobs anyway like you do with root? Something to think about... unless you have them break root too in one hit too?
- Also becareful what you wish for.. I mean lots of people here on the forums are already talking about wanting NPC's to be really intelligent. If you've done any sort of scripted a.i. programming it gets to a point where the a.i. is litterally as smart as you are. Can you imagine an enemy doing what we would do? As in.. you pull an orc and instead of it running after you it falls back and shouts for help and forms a group/raid? >>>> Train inc.. combine that with the mezz mechanic above = death on every pull. Like I said.. becareful what you wish for when you apparently really "want" high intelligence a.i. (trust me you don't really really want it.)
But there are my three main reasons.. I think it's complicated enough.. what with the enviroment strategies too. *shrugs* - that's my opinion anyway.On your first point, I think such intelligence shouldn't be the norm; but the threshold doesn't have to be that high to see your ally is standing there doing nothing. This could perhaps be loaded into a particular "NPC disposition", so there is only a chance of a mob having this ability. Having a variety of different types of mobs will make combat less predictable and probably more engaging for most people. Opposing factions also wouldn't help each other in that scenario.
As far as roots, I think those too should be subject to dispel. If having mobs buff and heal each other was fun, I think allowing some of them to occasionally remove your roots or dots would be more fun.
Obviously some caution has to be exercised when creating mob AI, but in a sense, dying mobs already sought out others by fleeing. I actually suggested this very mechanic for dealing with high levels farming low level content. If a player attacks a mob that has no chance of killing them, I think it would be great for them to immediately flee until they have enough allies to give that player a challenge. That's some next level stuff, imo, and what we should expect from Pantheon.
Beefcake said:Just don't do it so often that CC classes become practically useless.
The same goes for just about everything, if you think about it. When a mob gets healed, a dps class would feel like they too are useless. It's especially frustrating when running low on mana. That is what caused us to create strategies to separate, mez or focus down particular classes first in combat. All in all, a good thing though.
NPCs breaking mez/root or being more resistant to the same is fine, but immunity should be only in the most rare encounters.
As to which mobs can break the others out, it should be more intelligent mobs, humanoids and such, and probably limited to the encounter, not just random trained mobs.
NPCs, at minimum the humanoid NPCs that are mimics of our race and class and at 'our intelligence level', should have (access to) the same tools. If we get access to cleanses, restoration, or otherwise Mez/CC breaking abilities, they should also to an extent.
At the same time, they shouldn't be perfect at their jobs either.
Also, I'm not a fan of blanket immunities. A rare mob shouldn't suddenly be immune to something just because it's more powerful unless it's something that shouldn't be able to be Mez/CCed for some obvious reason. Perhaps diminishing returns to Mez when facing a rare mob, or perhaps they are a bit more resistant to it, but a class that uses Mez or CC also shouldn't suddenly not be able to preform it's job on a rare or boss mob.
This is an interesting idea for sure, but alot of aspects to think about here.
If you have a mob that has a behavior to actually attempt to break mez on allies it would mean it has to either walk up to the ally and hit it or cast a spell to remove the mez.
The latter in terms of despelling will definatly be anoying for mez classes and if such was in the game it should only be on certain mobs (this way most likely you will kill this mob first in a strategical way) and range should be quite short.
First I liked the idea of having a mob walking up to an ally to wake it up. It would create room for strategical roots and snares. To solve the problem with mobs running around waking up his friends when you pull larger group of mobs you can simply program that a mob wont "realize" his friends a are mezzed untill a certain percentage of damage being taken. Lets say this behaviour would only trigger after 80-90% health for example. This way only 1 mob would attempt this at the same time probably.
However.. I can see this being exploited as well.. if you have a high damage mob trying to run away all the time to wake up friends it would basicly be like a free "fear" spell. Considering snares it would be alot of free hits on the mob while trying to get to the target. I dont think this will be very good for general gameplay.
Sure you can have the mob only attempt this once or twice and then "give up" and/or it will "give up" as soon as its snared/rooted as well. This way it would never try to wake up an ally if its snared or rooted. (This could actually work decently and it would give a purpose to teamplay to always have a mob snared or rooted)
You could even have a AI behaviour that will despell itself and then attempt a quick sprint to go wake up his buddy.
I like the idea in general but I think it would be really hard to actually implement considering the exploit possibilities.