Kalok said:Vandraad said:
Are we not really asking the question how quickly can I/my group get back to where we were after dying?
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For instance, two of the more respected guilds on Bristlebane were Club Fu and Arch Overseers.
Zorkon said:Feyshtey said:Did Brad or someone say they were considering spawn points at or near zones that were independent of bind locaions? I thought I remembered hearing that but maybe I was making that up.
I understood at this point thats the way it works but the final solution is still up in the air.
What they have was just placeholder.
Thought so. And if that remains the case then most argument about inconvenience for melee's getting back to their groups when they die or completely wipe should be largely moot.
True, but if the implementation remains that you respawn where you last zoned in, trains will permit/create/enable death loops. (without an at the character screen Origin/Return Home option, for example)
I mean, yes, it's very convenient to respawn in-zone, there's no doubt. But that has consequences with training being a demonstrated/normal mechanic.
Amsai said:This gets into the different game cultures thing I brought up in another thread (but apparently community rules werent even the same on different servers within the same game). In FFXI there wasnt such a thing as camp stealing. It was open competition. If you have been camping for 3 days or 3 mins, its first come first serve.
That being said if a group did wipe, it was considered rude and having no honor if you complained about another group taking over the battle that you couldnt handle. You had your chance and if you blew it, you just stepped aside. Especially on a 8 to 16 hour rare spawn. To complain publically about it was a quick way to get a very bad reputation in XI. Now that doesnt mean that the group that finishes what you started wouldnt hand out Rez to the party that wiped. There is competition, and then there is just being an asshole.
That was awful. Open competition for every named was one of the most jarring and hated aspects of FFXI to me coming from EQ. Not a fan of systems that make every player not in my group an enemy, especially when hours long spawns are involved. Unnecessarily stressful and frustrating.
On my EQ server people would send tells if they noticed a dead party in a camp to see what was up before attempting to take it.
I embrace open competition. If the game operates off of a system where "tagging" is a thing, the group who gets the tag claims the mob. I think it's way more frustrating when people operate off of some made-up code of conduct that isn't broadly accepted, or enforced whatsoever. It only leads to people being disappointed when others play by the real "rules" and tag mobs as they are available.
vjek said:True, but if the implementation remains that you respawn where you last zoned in, trains will permit/create/enable death loops. (without an at the character screen Origin/Return Home option, for example)
I mean, yes, it's very convenient to respawn in-zone, there's no doubt. But that has consequences with training being a demonstrated/normal mechanic.
That's really easily fixable. Create a hall off of the main branch that enters into the zone with a little empty room. Respawn there. Or respawn around the side of the cave entrance outside the dungeon. Or respawn at a "safe" camp a short distance from the dungeon. Point being, if you know what mechanic you're designing for you can make logical adjustments to the location of bind points.
Also true, but then it places an obligation on zone design, rather than it being, for lack of a better term, natural. (or thematically consistent, if you prefer).
If I was a designer, given the choice between a more or less restrictive set of requirements for zone layout, I would personally prefer less restriction, but that's just me.
Rydan said:Kalok said:Vandraad said:
Are we not really asking the question how quickly can I/my group get back to where we were after dying?
...
...
For instance, two of the more respected guilds on Bristlebane were Club Fu and Arch Overseers.
I do recall Club Fu being very strickt, though did have some pain in the ass encounters with some.
Arch Overseers were great, specially that GL they had (RiP)... (somewhere recall that happened to that guild 3 times)
On topic: Vandraad is right; down time is evil, so time to spend to run back is a motivation factor to play good.
This downtime then must not be too long; see also my earlier post (page1) about incorporating logical locations in the environment for bind spots (or be that class\race specific or not, Kargen's post).
Then also, mistakes can happen or unexpected mob actions (AI) can happen, no matter how good the group is. So help eachother out if possible (I sometimes assisted during troubles or offered rezzes when the near group died). Or send a tell asking players. A group should get a reasonable amount of time to get back.
I just found out a few weeks ago that one of my co-workers was in AO...hehehe I did alot of pickup raids with those guys, so it wa cool to see someone from "back in the day".