Forums » Pantheon Classes

Class/race restrictions

    • 14 posts
    January 2, 2016 9:59 AM PST
    Since it's 2016 and you're going to be looking to races, has any thought to race and class restriction been brought up? I personally hate race and class restriction, but I realize a lot of you players probably do. If I want to be a...well...gnome paladin...I should have that option. Especially in coming expansions. If Gnomes and Dwarves hang out, why can't I learn how to Paladin from a Dwarf especially if we've been around each other for a year AND I already know similar abilities? I'm not incapable of learning. Just curious.
    • 1570 posts
    January 2, 2016 2:20 PM PST

    I'm a supporter of race/class restrictions when it make sense for the restriction to be in place due to the lore of the class and background of the race.  In Pantheon we're dealing with a world that is only here because shards of other worlds from (presumably) other planes of existance collided together.  It would stand to reason that things learned in one realm would not necessarily be learned in other realms.  A war-bent race could have it's evil clerics and of course direknights, but a paladin?  The champion of good?  Doesn't really fit does it. What about an Ogre rogue?  Do you really think Ogres would be good at sneaking through hallways of a gnoll fortress?  Or picking locks with their fingers the size of a halfling wrist?  He' be really good at smashing it with a hammer but not silently picking the lock.

     

    • Moderator
    • 8522 posts
    January 3, 2016 12:50 AM PST

    There will be class/race restrictions which will follow our game lore as a guide and we will release them as soon as they are finalised :)

    • 242 posts
    January 3, 2016 12:23 PM PST

    Ok as long as I can play a Shaman/Skar you may proceed. If i can't play a Troll (Skar) Shaman then no dice. I will boycot the game (JK) but seriously let me have a Skar/Shaman or a Dark Myr Monk because I think mermaid-fu would be awesome.

    • Moderator
    • 8522 posts
    January 3, 2016 3:36 PM PST

    Abacda said:

    Ok as long as I can play a Shaman/Skar you may proceed. If i can't play a Troll (Skar) Shaman then no dice. I will boycot the game (JK) but seriously let me have a Skar/Shaman or a Dark Myr Monk because I think mermaid-fu would be awesome.

    Lol, we will have to wait and see ;)

    • 192 posts
    January 3, 2016 10:59 PM PST

    Abacda said:

    Ok as long as I can play a Shaman/Skar you may proceed. If i can't play a Troll (Skar) Shaman then no dice. I will boycot the game (JK) but seriously let me have a Skar/Shaman or a Dark Myr Monk because I think mermaid-fu would be awesome.

     

    I very strongly feel that Skar/Shaman will be a thing! For me it just fits perfectly :) so I keep my fingers crossed for that. I have 3 or 4 other races as backups for the different classes I'd like to play - and hope that Pantheon will have at least 4 character slots, because I am an hopeless altoholic (and I'd throw money at them for more character slots).

    The artwork on the races alone is so awesome, that I would like to play them all, probably except for Ogres. But who knows?! :)

    • 745 posts
    January 12, 2016 8:43 PM PST

    Duffy said:

     

    I very strongly feel that Skar/Shaman will be a thing! For me it just fits perfectly :) so I keep my fingers crossed for that. I have 3 or 4 other races as backups for the different classes I'd like to play - and hope that Pantheon will have at least 4 character slots, because I am an hopeless altoholic (and I'd throw money at them for more character slots).

    The artwork on the races alone is so awesome, that I would like to play them all, probably except for Ogres. But who knows?! :)

     

    I feel relatively confident in this sentiment as well. As you say, it feels like it fits very well. This is the front runner for class/race combos for me if all goes as planned. I definitely have some others in mind if Skar Shaman falls through. Coincidentally, another class/race combo I'm kicking around is Skar Dire Lord, which also feels like it could be a thing. I won't roll both classes up as Skar however, so if we get lucky enough to have both combos playable, I'll roll one Skar and have another tough choice on my hands.

     


    Any other class/combos you guys are hoping for and/or considering?  @Kilsin, Rogue obviously (DUH :P), but have you come to a decision on race?

    • 138 posts
    January 13, 2016 11:49 AM PST

    I am going to have to go with Vandraad here. An ogre rogue would not make sense. A "evil" race being a paladin doesn't make sense. (which is why EQ had SK's)

    There were 'some' racial restrictions I didn't care for. I always wanted to be a dark elf monk. But I also understood why the restrictions were in place.

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Medjai at January 13, 2016 11:49 AM PST
    • 113 posts
    January 19, 2016 1:25 PM PST

    I pray to the Pantheon gods that Halfling Cleric is in :P

    • 18 posts
    February 18, 2016 1:41 PM PST

    I see two different kinds of restrictions in most, if not all, the previous RPGs that I've played.   Sure, an evil-race Paladin doesn't make sense, but, say, restricting Monks to only be this race or that seems arbitrary - I don't think that monk ideals are good/evil/race exclusive - it's more of a philosophy.  The USE of that philosophy/ideals/skills is what makes it good or evil.  (btw, Monk is just the first that came to mind, there are other seemingly arbitrary restrictions.)

    I'm encouraged by the comment that they will be lore based, but I hope that evolution is kept in mind.

    To elaborate: while historically, there may be reasons for restrictions, but as cultures interact things often cross over.  For instance, (again, going with monks), Lore may dictate that Humans developed the Monk, but as other races encounter them over time, I think that some would no doubtedly see the advantage and "become one".  So, putting (non-obvious) restrictions in place eliminates that aspect and is frustrating to me for an RPG.

    My hope is also that there's nothing fundamental about race-class restrictions. That way there's the possiblity they can be removed as the world develops.

    TLDR; If it's not an INHERENT conflict (paladin = good by definition and so evil restricted from it), there shouldn't be a restriction. As for Lore, just because it happened in the past, doesn't mean it HAS to be that way now.

    • 645 posts
    February 19, 2016 8:05 AM PST

    Abacda said:

    Ok as long as I can play a Shaman/Skar you may proceed. If i can't play a Troll (Skar) Shaman then no dice. I will boycot the game (JK) but seriously let me have a Skar/Shaman or a Dark Myr Monk because I think mermaid-fu would be awesome.

    Just think of Mermaid-fu

    Shark style....hard hitting, very aggressive

    Whale Style...Overbearing and bringing oppenent to the ground

    Octopus Style...Very fluid, using misdirects and the oppents own movements against them

    Minnow Style...Very fast, quick strike in vunerable areas

     

    Now on to the OP....I love Race / Class restrictions, they just make sense to me. Really really want a Mry Cleric, see to it Kilsin!!


    This post was edited by Sevens at February 19, 2016 8:08 AM PST
    • 120 posts
    February 19, 2016 9:17 AM PST

      I think race/class restrictions are perfectly reasonable. Ogre Wizard? No thanks hah. I personally already have 12 characters planned (no I wont play them all, I usually just play one toon full time and dont alt) to test and the create in game once we launch if only to lock down names. Race/class combos picked with a name for each.

     

    ORC / DIRE LORD  

    (make it happen)

     

    • 357 posts
    February 24, 2016 3:41 PM PST

    my first character must be halfling. Shaman / cleric / summoner / Paladin are the classes i require to be available to the Halfling.... Kilsin inform the team!!!

    • 17 posts
    March 17, 2016 4:04 AM PDT

    Good discussion! I definately support restrictions tied into a races lore and lifestyle. Though Gnomes, should be able to be every class :). Ah well.. Gnomes feel like Dire Lord, Cleric, Wizard, Summoner, Rogue?

    • 2013 posts
    March 19, 2016 12:13 PM PDT

    Zolzimar said:

    Good discussion! I definately support restrictions tied into a races lore and lifestyle. Though Gnomes, should be able to be every class :). Ah well.. Gnomes feel like Dire Lord, Cleric, Wizard, Summoner, Rogue?

    And Bard!!!!

    • 363 posts
    March 19, 2016 12:18 PM PDT

    Archai Shaman

    • 15 posts
    March 19, 2016 4:43 PM PDT

    I want at least enough character slots to be able to play each class.  so 12 slots. 

    Human Wizard

    Dwarf Cleric

    Human Crusader

    Ogre Warrior

    Halfling Druid

    etc etc

    • 273 posts
    March 20, 2016 1:24 PM PDT

    Zolzimar said:

    Good discussion! I definately support restrictions tied into a races lore and lifestyle. Though Gnomes, should be able to be every class :). Ah well.. Gnomes feel like Dire Lord, Cleric, Wizard, Summoner, Rogue?

     

    And enchanter!

     

    But seriously, Halfling Paladin, cleric I'd love to see that happen.  Its hard to imagine with the lore we have so far, but we can hope for some sort of celestial involvement.

    The halflings are the only ones who don't really have a pantheon of gods.  (Their solitary member of a pantheon resides among the elven pantheon.)

    EDIT: the source of that data actually may have come from the Kickstarter page, and, as such, could be outdated. lets hope!


    This post was edited by Larr at March 20, 2016 1:26 PM PDT
    • 300 posts
    March 20, 2016 2:56 PM PDT

    My list:

    Elf, Summoner - easy chance

    Iksar, Shaman - ...........

    Dark Myr, Warrior - DO IT

    Gnome, Monk - pretty please!

    Archai, Crusader - medium chance

    Dwarf, Dire Lord - medium chance

    Halfling, Wizard - easyish chance

    Human, Rogue - easy chance

    Skar, Ranger - hard chance

    Ogre, Cleric - medium-hard chance

    Expansion Race, Enchanter - ???

    Expansion Race, Druid - ???

    Ogre, Necromancer - easy-medium chance

    Dark Myr, Bard - easyish chance

     


    This post was edited by Pantz at March 20, 2016 3:02 PM PDT
    • 43 posts
    May 4, 2016 1:23 AM PDT
    Well if these haven't been decided yet, I hope the game will let me have a Dark Myr Enchanter :)
    • 2013 posts
    May 6, 2016 10:18 AM PDT

    Amsai said:

    Zolzimar said:

    Good discussion! I definately support restrictions tied into a races lore and lifestyle. Though Gnomes, should be able to be every class :). Ah well.. Gnomes feel like Dire Lord, Cleric, Wizard, Summoner, Rogue?

    And Bard!!!!

    Seriously. I really would love a Gnome Bard. That being said it wouldnt be the end of the world if they cant be. But one thing I hope they csn tell me is which races will be able to be Bard. The main reason is because of how it could tie into the progeny system. If I decide to do it It woukd suck if I chose a race I had no way of knowing couldnt be Bard when I reincarnate. Unless....... being able to choose any class is a progeny perk? Yes..... or too out there?

    • 5 posts
    May 7, 2016 1:10 PM PDT

    I can agree to race/class restrictions pending lore. Nice thing about lore is it's flexible since those who are putting the restrictions in place are also those who make the lore!

    On the flip side, some of the best charactes in stories are always those that are the eccentric ones, or the hero who was the outcast in his culture. What would be more outcast in a typical orc culture then a wizard? or a Dark Elf Peach loving Monk? Those are the kinds of characters that interesting and involved stories build upon. And after all, aren't we here to build our own Hero in their own story?

    My only gripe is if it gets TOO restrictive. I tend to get tire of Dev teams making a class for a single race (Tera as an example...last 2 new classes were for the Loli's exclusively. gross). restrictions should still provide flexibility and an opening for creative background/RP while still alligning to lore. An example would be the Monk class. It's a philosophy far more often then a cultural standard, so I could see a monk crossing many cultural lines. the wizard would be a bit more restrictive, as would a Paladin.

    EDIT: Peach should be Peace. Didn't correct it as it was sorta funny as I read it.


    This post was edited by temjiu at May 7, 2016 1:11 PM PDT
    • 500 posts
    June 20, 2016 3:45 PM PDT

    I am not a fan of race/class restrictions. You as a player are unique, one of the ways you can be unique and show off your style is how you build your character. The race you feel most at home with and the class you feel most at home with makes sense to YOU the player. It does not necessarily have to make sense to developers, they just have to make sure their NPC’s, Quest Givers, and the entire world they build reflect ‘common themes’. This way emersion will be in place and the players themselves can break that by being special, unique—which is the point!

    I suppose if you wanted to make sure a Halfling Warrior could compete with an Ogre Warrior  ‘LORE-WISE’ you could simply replace named abilities such as ‘Hulking Counter’ with a different named ability called “Lighting Repost” and you would be done. You wouldn’t even need to change animations, numbers or anything.

    Even though I am not a fan of race/class restrictions, it’s by no means a deal-breaker for me. It’s a disagreement. To me it’s a disservice to your players to inconvenience them by not having a race+class combo they can play they feel comfortable with.

    Imagine having a game which doesn’t have a race you care for, but you ‘settle for less’

    And then they don’t have a class that exactly fits your playstyle so you ‘put up with it’

    Too many compromises with your players and they just won’t care anymore and move on.

     

    Your players don’t ‘go against the grain’ they are the tree, the developers just water it.

    Your players don’t ‘need a path’, they are the path, the developers just need to travel it.

     

    This is important guys.

     

    -Todd

    • 1570 posts
    June 20, 2016 5:41 PM PDT

    tehtawd said:

    I suppose if you wanted to make sure a Halfling Warrior could compete with an Ogre Warrior  ‘LORE-WISE’ you could simply replace named abilities such as ‘Hulking Counter’ with a different named ability called “Lighting Repost” and you would be done. You wouldn’t even need to change animations, numbers or anything.

    Even though I am not a fan of race/class restrictions, it’s by no means a deal-breaker for me. It’s a disagreement. To me it’s a disservice to your players to inconvenience them by not having a race+class combo they can play they feel comfortable with.

    Halfing Warrior to Ogre Warrior is a simpletons comparison as every race had a warrior class from the smallest Gnomes to the biggest Ogres.  If you're going to argue against class/race restrictions at least put in the effort to look at something far more difficult:  Elven Wizard to Ogre Wizard.

    You look at the stats, and lets base some assumptions upon previous games where Ogres are highest on the STR/STA, lowest on DEX and fairly low on WIS/INT.  Whereas Elves are highest on WIS/INT, fairly high on DEX and lowest on STR/STA.  What a class can do and how well it does it is based off the stats of stats.  Would you honestly play an Ogre Wizard who's INT was half that of an Elf?  With half the manapool and (most likely) half the speed of leveling casting abilities and half the mana regen rate?  That many many levels down the road you'll always have a manapool that is insignificant to that of an Elf?  where he can cast a top level spells over and over many many times and you run OOM after just a few casts?

    Oooh..how about Gnome Enchanter vs Ogre Enchanter where your ability to mez is based off Charisma and everyone knows Ogres have the highest CHA of any race...right?

    Wait..one more.  Half-Elf Bard to Ogre Bard.  Would you really play an Ogre bard?

    Last one..the ever so sneaky, ever so silent...Ogre Rogue.  You'd play that one, yes?

     

    • 500 posts
    June 20, 2016 6:42 PM PDT

     

    Halfing Warrior to Ogre Warrior is a simpletons comparison as every race had a warrior class from the smallest Gnomes to the biggest Ogres.  If you're going to argue against class/race restrictions at least put in the effort to look at something far more difficult:  Elven Wizard to Ogre Wizard.

    You look at the stats, and lets base some assumptions upon previous games where Ogres are highest on the STR/STA, lowest on DEX and fairly low on WIS/INT.  Whereas Elves are highest on WIS/INT, fairly high on DEX and lowest on STR/STA.  What a class can do and how well it does it is based off the stats of stats.  Would you honestly play an Ogre Wizard who's INT was half that of an Elf?  With half the manapool and (most likely) half the speed of leveling casting abilities and half the mana regen rate?  That many many levels down the road you'll always have a manapool that is insignificant to that of an Elf?  where he can cast a top level spells over and over many many times and you run OOM after just a few casts?

    Oooh..how about Gnome Enchanter vs Ogre Enchanter where your ability to mez is based off Charisma and everyone knows Ogres have the highest CHA of any race...right?

    Wait..one more.  Half-Elf Bard to Ogre Bard.  Would you really play an Ogre bard?

    Last one..the ever so sneaky, ever so silent...Ogre Rogue.  You'd play that one, yes?

     

    Hi Vandraad,

     

    To understand my post better it's best to not think of stats in an all encompasing way. If you insist however you can stop reading now-I'll not be talking about it since it doesn't matter from the point of view of the OP and to me. 

    What matters is having an identity in the game. Brad McQuaid would agree with me that having an identiy in the game is really important. This is why he has focused on perfectly tuning each class to be an individual. People are individuals. If I as a game designer were to create a game to limit people from making choices and force them to pick what I say they have to pick, I would be alienating people. We have enough MMORPG orphans out there, we don't need to make any more.

    Lets make another idea shall we?

     

    I have already said the players should be able to do the combination that fulfills them in terms of what race and class combo they want.

    Adding another layer to this would be great. How about requiring a max level character of that specific race is the only way to unlock the ability of playing that race as any class? A very nice achievement getting to max level, this would also propel forward alt characters, you may even achieve a combination which perhaps is statistically better than racially intended? If you read this far, I talked about stats. I care about them too you know.

    Thanks for chatting with me,

     

    -Todd

     

     


    This post was edited by tehtawd at June 20, 2016 6:44 PM PDT