——-> NO INSTANCED ZONES!!!!! <——
Separation of Classes — Classic EQ had a great class make up, and NO! Alternate Advancement style add on’s
A death penalty that hurts —— Player death should be negative enough that you think twice about doing something stupid and make you regret it when you die. Only clerics and Necro’s (or some 2nd class) can rez —— Again death should hurt, if rez is super available then where is the penalty. No rez’ing NPC’s
A destination should be a journey in itself —— Fast travel should be at a minimum, 1 or 2 porting classes with horses (j-Boots). PoK books were one of the things that took away from EQ.
Gear stats should be small but still have meaning. In original EQ a +4 INT earring had meaning to a caster and 200 of a stat was substantial. Now people have stats of several hundred.
——> Wide level range of mobs within zone: 10/10. Griffin and decaying skeleton in same zone - added to the danger. Self-explanatory. —- Good call +1
The following carry overs from EQ I would like to see include:
Rint
Read most of these things before, but something I think would be really great idea in terms of 'leashing' is this.
Some mobs follow you to the ends of the earth
Some do not.
The 'leash' may have an adjusted amount of time per the creature. Or be longer in duration depending upon the health of who it is attacking. Heck, it could be racial as well. Elves could be the sweetest tastiest thing to a troll and it would leash on every other race but elves. Though now that I think of it, the gameplay of 'leashing' might not be as exciting as something else. so meh, I duno. Interesting though.
-Todd
Hmmmm.... I will play along mostly with "please don't":
1 flying mounts
2 instances
3 cash shops / p2p p2w etc
4 leashing
5 auction houses
6 mini mind craft stuff
please allow
1 crafted items to matter
2 variable timed events
3 attackable pcs
4 easy guild management tools
5 guild perks
6 ability to use mobile devices to talk to your guild
7 trains :)
8 and other stuff I have already heard me too ed in the thread
Death Penalty (10) :
The only fixes needed to EQ's death penalty system were to do with the more obscure problems/bugs. Body stuck underground, un-draggable or in a perma-death-loop. Raid issues as well. All can be circumvented or fixed. People also complain EQs system was immersion-breaking.
(a) Stuck bodies, errors, corpses lost at sea and bugs can all be adressed wither through robust (timed) options available from the char-select UI. Data logging can stop misuse.
(b) 'Lost' bodies could be 'collected' either by putting in a bounty system (player driven, player fulfilled), increasing time-to-decay options, or by implementing an Alt or 'DNPC' type system.
(c) Raid wipe /lost corpses can be fixed via an (undead infested) graveyard area adjoining the raid zone with appropriate /drag flags enable for anyone who was on/in the raid at the time. Thus you have the choice of returning to the raid zone and battle-rez + fight on or just giving up and fighting the (moderately) easier battle to get corpses from the graveyard meaning you will have to work your way back in if you want to do the raid zone again.
(d) Immersion-breaking. Just add a graphic so that when you die, instead of your (lootable) corpse you get that replaced with a shallow grave and/or a small hand-made tombstone. Now you go back and /dig-up yoru corpse [thus reducing decay timer from 30 days to 6 days, say] followed by /drag to safety and/or /loot to recover gear.
(e) It would be fairly easy to implement automatic /consent for any Alt - or even one designated alt. a DNPC system could be used instead so that when you die, you dont respawn as a nake version of yourself.... you respawn as a DNPC (custom created like a char perhaps) character far weaker than yourself (unless you level them up). This might take the form of needing you to designate a free character slot to act as this 'linked' character which would be spawned at the dead char's bind point. It could perhaps only gain XP as a % or main chars XP gained and any gold/items are given by main char to this character to hang onto. It *might* be a different class, gender or even (unlikely) race. They would either be a 'henchman' or 'cousin' or some-such. Perhap they could be levelled in addition, but only for a number of hours based on how many days the main was off-line etc.
Weigh / Carry capacty (10):
Without this you lose *many* areas of immersion and inter-character dependence.
(a) Have it affect teleport chances too if they are carrying too much! Wizzy carrying too much loot = disaster waiting to happen.
(b) Will increase want /need for higher value coins or gem-stones... particularly if banks are not 'universal' but localised. This in turn leads to characters making the most of this by, perhaps, going to busy - but far from vendor - areas to collect items / cash to exchange.
Imagine a character going round South Karana or Rathe Mountain parties asking them if they wanted to sell steel weapons (at a reduced price) or exchange copper/silver for gold / plat for a comission... thus allowing characters to stay out in their groups fighting and allowing the 'trader' to make moeny on the side providing this service.
Cosmetic Gear Slot (10):
Just not in the way you think!
(a) use the system I have seen in a few games when you can craft item #1 using a visual template for item #2. It would be destructive for the other items and create a new item witht eh combined stat and appearance.
(b) You should have to 'craft' a template (which becomes 'known') from deconstructing the visual item multiple times. A great smith with a high INT and 'Artistic Vision' skill might only need to decontruct it once to learn the template. This would allow him a *chance* to get it looking right.... a chance that will only increase with practice.
(c) Thus it is not an 'appearance slot' as such, but merely a way for individual smith to learn unique(-ish) skills to provide a different (non-cookie-cutter) look for characters.
(d) This could involve dyes and colouring too for a much greater range of visual difference.
(e) It could involve 'components' for more ornate armour - eg gemstones, gold and silver inlay etc.
Thus there is no need for an 'overlay' appearance slot. If your Level 50 monk finds an obscure cannibal tribe who occasionally drop 'Tarzans posing briefs' then he is welcome to take them to a high level crafter (tailor) to deconstruct until they are able to attempt (on less important gear initially) to craft the 'Monks uber top-stats but ugly trousers' using this template to create the ultimate in Monk posing pouches!
A Week later, another Monk sees these posing briefs in action and asks where he can get a pair! Inspecting the briefs he sees that they are made by the legendary tailor 'Vouis Luitton' and goes to get himself a pair made... but in RED!
An interesting read, this thread has been - a bit of an "all in one" topic, heh
A few random thoughts:
Attackable NPCs - In EQ, I came to miss the days when all NPCs were attackable: vendors, guildmasters, quest givers, the works... Perhaps safeguards could see them permanently rooted in place or with a short leash range, come with heavy faction hits with no exp to be had, and near-instant respawn... But, if you want to go crazy and take a swing at your guildmaster or attack a vendor in the middle of a city, you should be able to.
Instances - There is a big thread dedicated to instancing, but I'll just say that it's a downer to "/who" a current centric zone and see that you're the only one in it, or the only one of a few players, as it takes away from the feeling of community. It's good to hear they're leaning away from instances.
(Non-)Instanced Raids - Not sure how raids are going to be handled, but hopefully there will be some that are non-instanced... As a grouper, I liked seeing a raid move through a zone, set up, and engage... As a raider, it was likewise interesting sharing a zone with groupers, following the general zone chatter and such... This, too, goes towards the feeling of community and socialization. There's also something about seeing that nasty NPC in the distance that your single group dare not engage.
Evoras said:Weigh / Carry capacty (10):
Without this you lose *many* areas of immersion and inter-character dependence.
(a) Have it affect teleport chances too if they are carrying too much! Wizzy carrying too much loot = disaster waiting to happen.
(b) Will increase want /need for higher value coins or gem-stones... particularly if banks are not 'universal' but localised. This in turn leads to characters making the most of this by, perhaps, going to busy - but far from vendor - areas to collect items / cash to exchange.
As a player who loves porting classes and loved my Druids ports; I would be more careful on who I ported if they are overloaded with weight. As an example, if I'm a Druid and I get a /tell asking to port a player and his 3 buddies to an area that they need to get to quickly; I agree for a small cost (Taxi Service Fee..) but one of the group members I'm porting has exceeded his weight limit that he can carry which lowers his chance of a successful port. What if I start to port the group and as we all begin to disappear and reappear in the zone that was request, the player who exceeded his weight ends up in a different zone (possibly a dangerous one to high for his level...)... Or if I'm a Druid hunting Giants and I have a few of them rooted and dotted, but suddenly I get a ton of adds and the Giants roots break and so I now end up with dozens of mobs chasing me. Since I have been farming giants their gear is really heavy and I've exceeded my weight carry limits but due to my run speed & strength buffs I manage to get far enough away from them to cast a port or succor spell, but since I'm really weighted down there should be a chance I can't port out of the zone in time or I end up in a dangerous area because my port spell malfunctioned due to my weight.
Makes me tense thinking about it...
Rint
I am hoping for a truely seamless massive open world. Would be nice to have no zones or instances.
I want areas to feel huge too, not just some small area that at first you think is huge upon first entering then realise that when you get a mount, you can move across the map in less then 2 mins or worse, Teleport via NPC's to 20 different locations on one map.
What do I want carried over from EQ?
I want EVERYTHING from 2000. Most of my wish list is also a NOT-HAVE list of things that were added to EQ that dumbed it down.
I want/wish/plead/pray/hope/beg for :
Taemek said:I am hoping for a truely seamless massive open world. Would be nice to have no zones or instances.
I want areas to feel huge too, not just some small area that at first you think is huge upon first entering then realise that when you get a mount, you can move across the map in less then 2 mins or worse, Teleport via NPC's to 20 different locations on one map.
Well, this is going to be a zone based MMO based on all the discussions the dev's have had about the project from the beginning, and since the topic is "What to carry over from the original EQ" it should be noted that EQ was all Zones. There was nothing seamless about it.
With that said, I like the idea of seamless but zone based allows for more freedom in design and creativity. What I think would be a cool idea would be to still have zone based barriers among the zones, but create an illusion that shows the activites on the other side, such as players fighting mobs, or wild-life roaming about, or houses/huts with smoke coming out of the chimney. The zone line boundary can/should have some type of reference of whats on the other-side. As an example during the latest video right before the dev's zoned into the cave the zoneline just showed a static image of the otherside of the zoneline, but it would have been better if it could of depicted a mirror image of activity on the other side of the zone line... Just an idea...
Rint
Pyye said:Hello everyone!
Having just found out about this game, I feel there are a TON of supporters like me who are still in the dark. I have and will continue to tell many friends.
So I would assume there are a lot of interested players that were original EQ members like me, having played for 9 years. With that being the case, I thought it would be fun to rank 1-10 (10 highest) & comment on the following features and how important it should be to Pantheon:
(Here are my key features I wanted to rate / discuss)
Death Penalty: 8
Death should mean something and cost something. Was thinking progressive deaths in a time frame, where each one caused more severity. i.e. first one - small exp but spawn fairly close, second- exp / gear and spawn further out etc.. This way if you die over something stupid you won't get penalized, but if you are trying over and over it will cost you to risk it. This is a hard one to figure out...
Nighttime Darkness: 9
I still remember the intimidation of nighttime in original EQ. I think a BIG part of the immersion is risking things based on time of day. You can quest or buy torches etc. to help the lighting, but maybe gradually build nightvision as you level higher. It should remain fairly dark imo
Corpse Dragging / Looting: 8
I still like the fact that you had to work your way back to your corpse in EQ. This is a part of the death meaning something conversation. However, losing gear should not be an option. You would not lose as much exp if someone were to rez your corpse and you would not be able to progress anything until you possess your corpse again. There could be a timer that would set it at dungeon entrance if situation is grim. Lots to discuss here...
Auctioning items: 9
Who could forget the famous tunnels of East Commonlands. I enjoyed that again when I revisited EQ progression server. I like the idea of having market areas where you have to be present to see the market spam in order to make a deal. I do not think it should be broadcast everywhere else in the game. Part of the immersion is feeling like you should be somewhere for a good reason. This helps social environment as well and cuts down gold farming.
Cosmetic Gear Slots: 9
I am a fan of allowing appearance gear to be slotted only consmetically over actual stat gear BUT it must be obtained somehwere out in the world, NOT with an online store purchase. So in other words, you really like the look of a bracer you obtained in a level 2 dungeon but got an upgrade on a level 5 item that looks worse, you could slot your level 2 item cosmetically until you like something else later. Love this option if it is earned...
Rare Mobs and Placeholders: 10
I LOVE the fact that an area has to be worked for a chance to spawn a rare mob for special gear or quests. I cannot stand knowing the rare mob will spawn in an exact location every 5 minutes. One of the great things about EQ was never knowing what you could get wandering around, that adds to immersion.
NPC Assistance / Aggro Range: 9
I loved how in EQ you risked everything by pulling too many NPCs at once. I think it was severe in EQ however, but I would still like an environment where too many equals a hairy situation or possible death. This opens the door for CC classes again which completely went away in most modern MMOs
Travel to Locations: 9
Again, I do not want fast travel in the game unless you have made it by foot first to key locations. Traveling by boat, foot, mount first should allow you the rights to cover greater distances later.
Map View and Fog of War: 10
I do not think a player should be able to see the lay of the land until they have crossed it. This improves social interaction and immersion. One idea would be to obtain rare map scrolls that would highlight a portion of a zone ahead of time if you came across one. These could be traded or sold as well. Other ideas?
Experience and Leveling: 10
Yeah this should take a bit of time. If you are playing a game for fun, having a blast with groups or your friends, why worry about whether or not you can hit max level in a few weeks. Do not confuse grind with time invested. You COULD grind if you wanted to work an area of a zone, some players love that. But, there should be enough to do to keep you busy and not always looking at the exp bar. BUT this should be a rate that takes a bit of investment to progress. Can't stand making 10 levels in a day or more in modern MMOs.
Interactive Water Environment: 10
I know this is already in place, but I love a world where you can explore under water and have risks. This is a big sub world opportunity that adds to immersion. Nothing better than finding a way to a hidden oasis because you explored an underwater cave and found a hidden entrance.
Online Store Bought Items: 1
I am not a big supporter of being able to buy everything in an online store. To me, this takes away from the immersion of the game. It kind of reminds you that you are in a made up world. I would like to see everything offered only by means of being in game and earned or collected somehow, even if it means paying an extra monthly subscription. If the game is GOOD, I will support at all costs.
Food / Drink to Survive: 7
It makes sense... Maybe have an option to eat off the land as you go and drink water as you see it. I do like the idea that you need to plan for this rather than be able to survive automatically. What do you think, should you have to have food and drink?
Epic Quests: 10
I LOVE these type of quests that equal something major in the end. It should not always have to be a RAID to get hard pieces but perhaps a lot of group activity. They should require a lot of steps, combining, rare pieces, semi-rare pieces, etc. to see it through completion. I think this is a big part of what is missing these days. Keep in mind, this does not have to be just weapons. It could equal all kinds of useful stuff that you have to work over time to obtain.
Dungeons - Instance / Public / or Both: 8
Well I am a fan of both so hear me out... Obviously you should have dungeons where players can come and go and fight over same resources. I think a solution to rare mobs would be to have them be able to spawn in a "general" location that is large enough for someone not to be able to call "camp". This way everyone has a chance.
I do, however, like certain instance dungeons that you and your group can take their time and clear out how they desire. Some like to plan and go slower than others. If you die, you come back and start where you were with no mob respawns. This really really helps you feel progression and is less grindy. Once it is cleared, it will reset for you after so much time etc...
What else did I miss? Please feel free to add it at the end of your comments!
Pyye-
I would add pets and mounts. Now, I know that is a hornets nest but I think they should be in the game. It may take a while but I know the VR team will get a balance for them.
Ox
JudgeFudge said: I agree with all points by sniggz except the agro leash point. Does this game even have zones? If I run by accidently agro say three mobs trying to get to a group do I have to run for hours to get back to town. Make the mob give up after a while or it might get a little ridiculous.
If you watch the second twitch stream they had conducted it show's zones, as they went from the Open World into a cave dungeon. I am even assuming that even in the large zones they made seamless zonelines to cut help cut back on lag in the larger zones with the abilitiy to still see/talk to everyone in the zone?
Oxillion said:Pyye said:Hello everyone!
Having just found out about this game, I feel there are a TON of supporters like me who are still in the dark. I have and will continue to tell many friends.
So I would assume there are a lot of interested players that were original EQ members like me, having played for 9 years. With that being the case, I thought it would be fun to rank 1-10 (10 highest) & comment on the following features and how important it should be to Pantheon:
(Here are my key features I wanted to rate / discuss)
Death Penalty: 8
Death should mean something and cost something. Was thinking progressive deaths in a time frame, where each one caused more severity. i.e. first one - small exp but spawn fairly close, second- exp / gear and spawn further out etc.. This way if you die over something stupid you won't get penalized, but if you are trying over and over it will cost you to risk it. This is a hard one to figure out...
Nighttime Darkness: 9
I still remember the intimidation of nighttime in original EQ. I think a BIG part of the immersion is risking things based on time of day. You can quest or buy torches etc. to help the lighting, but maybe gradually build nightvision as you level higher. It should remain fairly dark imo
Corpse Dragging / Looting: 8
I still like the fact that you had to work your way back to your corpse in EQ. This is a part of the death meaning something conversation. However, losing gear should not be an option. You would not lose as much exp if someone were to rez your corpse and you would not be able to progress anything until you possess your corpse again. There could be a timer that would set it at dungeon entrance if situation is grim. Lots to discuss here...
Auctioning items: 9
Who could forget the famous tunnels of East Commonlands. I enjoyed that again when I revisited EQ progression server. I like the idea of having market areas where you have to be present to see the market spam in order to make a deal. I do not think it should be broadcast everywhere else in the game. Part of the immersion is feeling like you should be somewhere for a good reason. This helps social environment as well and cuts down gold farming.
Cosmetic Gear Slots: 9
I am a fan of allowing appearance gear to be slotted only consmetically over actual stat gear BUT it must be obtained somehwere out in the world, NOT with an online store purchase. So in other words, you really like the look of a bracer you obtained in a level 2 dungeon but got an upgrade on a level 5 item that looks worse, you could slot your level 2 item cosmetically until you like something else later. Love this option if it is earned...
Rare Mobs and Placeholders: 10
I LOVE the fact that an area has to be worked for a chance to spawn a rare mob for special gear or quests. I cannot stand knowing the rare mob will spawn in an exact location every 5 minutes. One of the great things about EQ was never knowing what you could get wandering around, that adds to immersion.
NPC Assistance / Aggro Range: 9
I loved how in EQ you risked everything by pulling too many NPCs at once. I think it was severe in EQ however, but I would still like an environment where too many equals a hairy situation or possible death. This opens the door for CC classes again which completely went away in most modern MMOs
Travel to Locations: 9
Again, I do not want fast travel in the game unless you have made it by foot first to key locations. Traveling by boat, foot, mount first should allow you the rights to cover greater distances later.
Map View and Fog of War: 10
I do not think a player should be able to see the lay of the land until they have crossed it. This improves social interaction and immersion. One idea would be to obtain rare map scrolls that would highlight a portion of a zone ahead of time if you came across one. These could be traded or sold as well. Other ideas?
Experience and Leveling: 10
Yeah this should take a bit of time. If you are playing a game for fun, having a blast with groups or your friends, why worry about whether or not you can hit max level in a few weeks. Do not confuse grind with time invested. You COULD grind if you wanted to work an area of a zone, some players love that. But, there should be enough to do to keep you busy and not always looking at the exp bar. BUT this should be a rate that takes a bit of investment to progress. Can't stand making 10 levels in a day or more in modern MMOs.
Interactive Water Environment: 10
I know this is already in place, but I love a world where you can explore under water and have risks. This is a big sub world opportunity that adds to immersion. Nothing better than finding a way to a hidden oasis because you explored an underwater cave and found a hidden entrance.
Online Store Bought Items: 1
I am not a big supporter of being able to buy everything in an online store. To me, this takes away from the immersion of the game. It kind of reminds you that you are in a made up world. I would like to see everything offered only by means of being in game and earned or collected somehow, even if it means paying an extra monthly subscription. If the game is GOOD, I will support at all costs.
Food / Drink to Survive: 7
It makes sense... Maybe have an option to eat off the land as you go and drink water as you see it. I do like the idea that you need to plan for this rather than be able to survive automatically. What do you think, should you have to have food and drink?
Epic Quests: 10
I LOVE these type of quests that equal something major in the end. It should not always have to be a RAID to get hard pieces but perhaps a lot of group activity. They should require a lot of steps, combining, rare pieces, semi-rare pieces, etc. to see it through completion. I think this is a big part of what is missing these days. Keep in mind, this does not have to be just weapons. It could equal all kinds of useful stuff that you have to work over time to obtain.
Dungeons - Instance / Public / or Both: 8
Well I am a fan of both so hear me out... Obviously you should have dungeons where players can come and go and fight over same resources. I think a solution to rare mobs would be to have them be able to spawn in a "general" location that is large enough for someone not to be able to call "camp". This way everyone has a chance.
I do, however, like certain instance dungeons that you and your group can take their time and clear out how they desire. Some like to plan and go slower than others. If you die, you come back and start where you were with no mob respawns. This really really helps you feel progression and is less grindy. Once it is cleared, it will reset for you after so much time etc...
What else did I miss? Please feel free to add it at the end of your comments!
Pyye-
I would add pets and mounts. Now, I know that is a hornets nest but I think they should be in the game. It may take a while but I know the VR team will get a balance for them.
Ox
In-Game Cash Store:
TBH can we rate in-game real cash store's as a complete ----10. Most games make that function Pay to Win or just for apparel wish once again should not belong in a game where we are trying to make it immersive; because sure that level 1 crap armor needs to look like diamonds and be completely ******* fabulous!? No, if you have that way of thinking slap your self now.
Epic Weapons/quests:
But everything seems pretty spot on really, but the epic weapons always seem to get me. I don't think the epic weapons should be in the first couple of expansions. When I hear the words "Epic Weapon" I expect it to be the most powerful weapon you can get for your class and it's nearly impossible to get. Not get outpowered by weapons released in the next expansions to make them relevant other wise no one would use them. ETCETC
Dungeons:
TBH I like both but hate both at the same time too. So ill start open world fighting and why I dislike it. I dislike this just because you get those high level players that come back to the low level area's for "Money" farming or camping named mobs for loot to make their alt's L33T which just makes it incredibly hard to level up with your party sometimes as these campers may be taking the only viable leveling spot for a group for that area. Instance help fix that problem. Now why I hate instances: it creates less immersion, loot tables seem to always be super OP in the istances and can be farmed, The exp always seems way better than actually grouping out in the open world.
Food:
I think this should play an important part, I think that if your character starts to get to the point of "Starving" it should slowly start ticking away at your life, same with "dehydrated" but mana and life with that. Should be slowly at first and just ticks more and more until you get your self food or drink depending on what you need. Whereas you are "hungry" slows your health regen, and "thirsty" just slows your mana regen.
Sniggz said:I agree 100% with the above post.Here's my list of features I'm really hoping to see in Pantheon:
EDIT: Just realized most of my list is features I DON'T want to see haha. I guess I'm hoping Pantheon delivers on it's promise to be a game that brings back many of the roots that made the MMO genre great. My personal opinion are that many of the 'inovations' and 'quality of life' features that have been added and are now standard in the genre have actually deluted / lessened the experience.
No 'GPS' or 'YOU ARE HERE' Indicators on Maps
I'm perfectly ok with sparsely detailed in-game maps. I'd actually like it if zone maps were rare drops from certain mobs in each zone. Or if maps were something you had to draw up yourself as you explored. I do not want any GPS, or indicator of where you are on the map. The only MMO I've played in this manner was classic EQ and it forced me to actually pay attention to the environment and learn the zones. 'Exploration' in every MMO since has consisted of me hitting the 'M' key and following a dot on the map. It completely ruins the immersion and feeling of exploration to me.
No Flight Paths
The only form of fast travel I want is class casted ports and buffs, or possibly clicky items. Flight paths (or multiple flight paths) in each zone makes the world feel exponetially smaller than it really is, and again completely ruins immersion. I suppose I'd be ok with mounts that increase travel speed, but I'd rather have to rely on class specic speed buffs such as SoW.
Corpse Runs
I really hope Pantheon mimics the EQ death system almost exactly. It was harsh, but that's what made it great. Exploring deep into a dungeon, or running across the world actually carried consequences. Those consequences made trivial, mundane tasks exciting as a misstep could set you back at any time. This greatly increased immersion.
No Auction House / Bazaar
Let the players establish a meeting place for auctioning / selling items and gear organically. One of the coolest aspects of classic EQ to me was how the ECL tunnel became the game's central trading hub organically by the players. This organic system forced player interaction instead of using some artificial tool.
No Mob Leashing or Resetting
If you aggro a mob, it should literally chase you until something else takes aggro from it, or it dies. This again was one of the best features of EQ that I have not come across in any other MMO. It was another aspect of what made the world feel dangerous at all times and was an important aspect in what made the game so magical and great.
From a PvP perspective, instances kill the competitive environment. Competition is the life-blood of a PvP server. PvP server is meant to be an contested arms-race.
To continue on leashing: when a mob loses agro, let it be a mob still. I mean dont make it untargetable or run at 5x speed back to its spawn point. It should agro anyone or anything as it patrols its way back if its faction dictates so.
Thank you again to VR for making this discussion possible.
