It's unwise not to question the original design of EverQuest, since anything can be improved, and most of us don't simply want a re-skinned EQ1. That being said, I think it's an extremely difficult art to actually determine which features of EverQuest were essential to its core loved properties and which features could be changed for the better. There are features like hell levels and training that one could argue for removing, but the burden is always on the person arguing for their removal to do their homework and figure out what their upsides are, because most features (whether ultimately good or bad) will have some upsides, sometimes very non-obvious ones. At that point, if the upsides are identified, it can become a discussion about whether the upsides are worth it or not. But too often the discussion begins with "X feature has these downsides and must be removed", with no nuance or awareness of what the full consequences would be, and what the upsides are that would be lost.
Liav said:If I went back in time the way I am now, with the knowledge I have, I would not be even a quarter as captivated by EQ as I was at the time. You simply don't get to experience the infancy of an entire genre of games very often.
indeed
I have experienced nostalgia for certain zelda games and street fighter.Emulated/downloaded it in an attempt to relive these glorious times again.
In the end I felt like nostalgia had done a cruel joke on me,as I was disappointed replaying those games "hmm this is not as great as I remember it to be"
In retrospect I think it would have been better to leave those childhood memories for what they were.
Some might see me as someone who tries to spoil things now.I assure you all that is not the case.I am fully behind this game.
Being the witness of all nostalgia going on on the forum lately,I think it is very important to talk about the effects of nostalgia.
Nostalgia can be deceiving.And we must consider that a moment or feeling we recall may ,in fact,be airbrushed/fictionalized by our memory.
It is important to consider that our attachement to things of nostaligic significance is formed in our earlier years too.
How often do you hear people say "those were the years" about the years they grew up in?
Nostalgia can be a wonderful feeling,the joy with a twinge of regret that it is no longer.If we can't accept that it is no longer,the idealization can get problematic.
Cause we project our personal ideal on to others (and this is were nostalgia can get destructive,even halting the genre to evolve because we're stuck in the past,unable to sever ourselves from the nostalgic attachement)
"This is ideal and everyone against would prevent my happiness" The burden is,as vylo mentions, on the ones who would dare to argue or question the ideal.
For the nostalgic it is a struggle to reconcile the real with the ideal.In reality what they long for no longer exists.It is just a feeling.A memory of a (childhood) memory.
When impossible to sever from nostalgic attachement,the opposition to much needed change can be so intense that a turning away from reality takes place, and they continue to cling to the ideal through the medium of a wishful psychosis
Even when a childhood was unhappy ,people with toxic,abusive family for example.Nostalgia has the ability to induce a kind of madness,consuming the mind
The abusive contact in the childhood transmuting into adult attachement to abusive relations.
Unfortunately it is indeed very difficult to determine which features were essential and which features could be changed for the better
Especially with nostalgia clouding minds.Even possessing the capability to prevent the genre to evolve as everyone is stuck in a web of nostalgia
Marilee said:Let's look at it this way: Everyone can bowl, but not everyone can do it well. Should a bowling alley compensate for those who aren't very good by building special lanes for them? Should the bad players be able to buy a bigger ball to hit more pins? Buy the guard rails so that they can't get a gutter ball? Buy extra chances at each frame before the pins are cleared? Should a team be created for them because they won't find one for themselves? Wouldn't all of this take away from people who bowl for the sport and challenge of it?
Because that's what's happened to the MMORPG genre. All the challenge has been sucked out of it. Pay to win is rampant. People piss and moan wanting everything handed to them on a platter. My chosen genre has been taken over by coorporate greed and people who shouldn't be playing MMORPGs.
It's my opinion. Don't scold me if you don't hold the same. We can agree to disagree.
It isn't nostalgia that makes me yearn for hard mechanics. It's the hope that gaming on this level will be returned to gamers. I want my genre back. I want it gated with mechanics that separate the players from the buyers.
Is that too much to ask?
I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned the hated nerf bat. I loved UO and EQ and some others. One thing that I ran into more in EQ than any other game was abilities getting nerfed. Saturday my Shaman could slow a mob by 70% and Tuesday I couldn't slow the mob at all. I had 9/10 Shamen in my guild rage quit at one point, because of nerfing. There were raids where a Shaman wasn't needed because slows wouldn't land. I hope that once Pantheon goes live after the extensive testing, the devs are slow to diminish a class specific trait. How many threads on different boards read, such and such ability is now working as planned, and players were crazed by it. A lot of anguish was felt because of that process. I hope that test servers are used extensively before game mechanics are changed.
No one here ever forgets the bad memories. We've all also done a very good job at continously reminding the dev team of what they should avoid so we don't relive these bad memories. Highlighting the good is a polite way of what fans want to see happen in a game they are all looking forward to.
Most haters can't distinguish between Nostalgia and solid-clear game mechanics that are lost and forgotten!
Yes, we all feel nostalgic about EQ and those times but EQ did certain things that no other game managed to bring back. I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum is sick and tired of waiting for a proper MMORPG, an MMORPG which gives you that experience you had in EQ. The freedom, the danger and the huge dangerous dungeons. The need to "bring friends" because the world will kick your ass if you're not careful. The game will not hold your hand, there are no quest-hubs... you're pretty much FREE to go anywhere. We all miss that.
We miss leveling taking time, which means the journey matters. We miss how coordinating with your group members well is important because one small mistake can lead to a wipe which would result in a really harsh death penalty. Things WILL go wrong because of how combat works and how NPCs behave and how difficult they are. No more are we going to jump between 10 monsters and melting them with one click of a mouse button. Finally, a game where Crowd Control classes are needed. A Game where "Slowing" an NPC is meaningful because they don't die in 2-3 seconds! a game where resource-management is cruecial to your success, it's not about how fast you press your button but more about how effeceint you are handling your situation. The fizzles, the resists, the misses... all of that results in a situation that will make you on your toes in many situations. That kind of combined game mechanics is LOST and FORGOTTEN. We all been waiting for THIS kind of expeirence but no developer actually "gets it" and haters think we're simply nostalgic.
I could go for days and days talking about the specifics. I could write books about why EQ was called EverCrack. EQ made us so addicted because of how all these game mechanics were working together. We gladly paid our subscribtion year after year because the game experience, a game experience that you will never find on any modern MMORPG. I doubt any lead MMO designer knows what the F we're talking about. I doubt they know anythign about what we had 18 years ago. Most of them don't "get it" and the only time I am certain a game will do it right based on the core combat mechanics we've seen is Pantheon. Not even Vanguard were close, the combat was different and the questing/itemization were "meh".
If VR keep doing what they're doing they're going to end up with the Savior MMORPG we've all been waiting for. My concerns lie on Itemization because they can mess this one; but hopefully they won't. Itemization is a very important aspect that developers always get it wrong. But I'm hopeful and reading the FAQ I believe VR is on the right track.
Yes, we all feel nostalgic about the good old days but we also never got an MMORPG which scratches that specific itch we have.
