Will this be making an appearance in Pantheon? Personally I enjoy the immersion that comes with playing an RPG from first person as opposed to third or isometric etc, I see why people would prefer the latter for reasons like having an increased situational awareness and what not.
If so, is there any chance of having some roleplay type server where we would see certain things disabled or forced(like the third person view, "common" language, etc) in order to really create that feeling of BEING your character? I touched on this with my suggestion thread on having a "hardcore" type server(not permadeath mind you! though that would be a cool server ruleset as well :) ) but didn't really get much of a dev response IIRC.
Thanks guys.
Happytrees said:
Will this be making an appearance in Pantheon? Personally I enjoy the immersion that comes with playing an RPG from first person as opposed to third or isometric etc, I see why people would prefer the latter for reasons like having an increased situational awareness and what not.
If so, is there any chance of having some roleplay type server where we would see certain things disabled or forced(like the third person view, "common" language, etc) in order to really create that feeling of BEING your character? I touched on this with my suggestion thread on having a "hardcore" type server(not permadeath mind you! though that would be a cool server ruleset as well :) ) but didn't really get much of a dev response IIRC.
Thanks guys.
Brad actually responded to that thread and said he liked the idea and wanted to have more server rulesets in general but that it would depend on population.
Aradune said:
Now, the general idea of an 'immersion' server, however, really appeals to me.
Aradune said:
It's true that even the group of people who are now (and of course this group will grow once we really push awareness/marketing/PR) interested in the game are divided in some areas. But I welcome this and have no issue with it. And 'alternate rule-set servers' are indeed, IMHO, the way to handle many of these differences in tastes. Having a few different types of PvP servers makes a lot of sense. RP/Immersion servers are awesome (one of the last things I did before leaving SoE in 2001 was create the Firiona Vie RP server, and while it was a bit 'nerfed' later on, I think the original rule-set was pretty sweet). Hard core servers would also be very cool. Harecore RP PvE would be my personal choice.
A lot of it depends, at least shortly after launch, on how many servers total we launch with. The more servers, the more variety we can accommodate. The number of servers at launch depends on two things: 1. how popular the game is at launch (e.g. how many players) and 2. how many players we come up with needing to make a viable server population (too many and the fight over resources becomes of negative and you have to deal with crowding (something we have to be more sensitive about because we are mostly non-instanced); too few and you're in a lonely world, which hurts socialization/community building and also makes it a pain to find a group).
Also, then, as the game grows after launch, as the word spreads, etc., I am confident we'll have to launch more servers. So some of the alternate rule-set servers may have to wait until some time after launch.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1922/idea-suggestion-realism-immersion-server
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1935/server-rulesets
While I like an RP server I don't like 1st person view. If everyone else was stuck with it though it would be interesting to try to pull etc as you literally would not be able to see behind you unless you turned, possibly exposing your back to the mob in front of you.
If they did do this I would like to see positional surround sound, and positional attacks.
Positional surround sound - means if a mob is walking behind you, you hear him behind you. Lot of people have 5.1 or 7.1 speakers or headsets now so this would make the immersion factor greater and help with the lack of situational awareness from first person view.
Positional attacks - if you are behind a mob (or a mob is behind you) they are not able to block, parry, dodge, riposte etc. Armor would stay play in but no "active" ability to stop from being hit would. Would also like to see mob height play into it. If you're a halfling fighting an ogre you better watch out and be fast as that ogre is going to try to bash your head!
I prefer immersion (1st person) over 3d person view. And learning to move and turn around as needed, in order to see what's going on, makes me feel that much more in a real world, makes me feel that it's me, not someone I'm driving like a robot on remote control.
Both first and third person view should be included with the game. I prefer first person view myself most of the time. I occasionally pan around making sure i'm safe, but while playing stick to looking through my character's eyes.
We haven't seen anything from Pantheon in first person view yet. That may be due to it not implimented or that they want to keep showing off character models for the time being.
We have both first and third person views currently and that will be what we launch with as it allows both sides of the fence to enjoy the gameplay their way and for those of you that sit on the fence (like me), they can enjoy both.
As per the other thread and both Brad and my own comments stated, if there is enough interest, we would definitely look at adding a special ruleset RP server but we would need the number to justify that decision and it's a bit too early to be looking at that right now. ;)
Kilsin said:
We have both first and third person views currently and that will be what we launch with as it allows both sides of the fence to enjoy the gameplay their way and for those of you that sit on the fence (like me), they can enjoy both.
Would it be possible within the next 3-6 months to get some first person screenshots?
bigdogchris said:
Kilsin said:
We have both first and third person views currently and that will be what we launch with as it allows both sides of the fence to enjoy the gameplay their way and for those of you that sit on the fence (like me), they can enjoy both.
Would it be possible within the next 3-6 months to get some first person screenshots?
I am pretty sure I could organise something along those lines for you all, leave it with me :)
Oh thanks for pulling that thread up! I had looked for it but must've scanned right over it. Really enjoyed Brad's response, hope they implement something along those lines at some point. I loved the idea of Firiona Vie but unfortunately never got to experience it myself.
I would mainly like a forced-first person server because if you have the choice between first and third, you're really hindering yourself in first because third offers a much better situational awareness, so there really isn't a choice if yu think about it. It becomes a choice between being gimped or not gimped. If you force it, nobody will feel that they have less awareness than another player, and then you get to enjoy the increased immersion and whatnot because everyone is having to rely on sounds and whatnot to find out whats creeping up on you or what have you.
I personally believe the 1st person view in early EQ was responsible for the highly immersive experience that give people such a fond memory of the game. I recently tried playing a game in 1st person and found that I became much more absorbed in the story and gameplay itself than I had in an MMO in years. After realizing this, I actually took a step back and asked myself whether the story or game was in any way better than other MMOs I've played. I came to the conclusion that, other than the fact that I was playing in 1st person, nothing else about the game was really that different or outstanding.
Theres no doubt that 3rd person makes everything easier, but whether people like it or not (or even realize it), seeing the world through the eyes of your character has an impact on you.
I agree but at the same i think its sad. Once theres a 3rd person view 1st person becomes kind of obsolete. Since competition wise you loose out big time if youre playing 1st person style. I loved the immersion of 1st person but i surely wouldn play 1st person as long as a 3rd person view exists. It wouldn even matter if theres a server that forces you to. As long as theres a option for others to play the game 3rd person i go with it. Im still waiting for a MMO played with an Occulus Rift and a movement system that actually needs your real body to move accordingly. That would proly be the time i would become quite a sportsman. I bet it would be fun if we could dodge spells or blows with real movement aww yeah. Maybe in about 10 years we see something along thoose lines.
I certainly wish an MMO would be designed with first person only in mind. It makes the game much more intense when an enemy is swinging right at your face, and you have to continuously look over your shoulder if you want positional awareness.
Kilsin said:We have both first and third person views currently and that will be what we launch with as it allows both sides of the fence to enjoy the gameplay their way and for those of you that sit on the fence (like me), they can enjoy both.
As others have stated, having both and letting players choose is not even remotely the same. Players always find and take the path of least resistance, so any leverage you give us will be taken advantage of exponentially. Very few people will choose the harder route if there is no incentive and the other way is just more convenient.
That being said, I'd absolutely play on a first person only server if it were an option.
picks86 said:I certainly wish an MMO would be designed with first person only in mind. It makes the game much more intense when an enemy is swinging right at your face, and you have to continuously look over your shoulder if you want positional awareness.
Kilsin said:We have both first and third person views currently and that will be what we launch with as it allows both sides of the fence to enjoy the gameplay their way and for those of you that sit on the fence (like me), they can enjoy both.
As others have stated, having both and letting players choose is not even remotely the same. Players always find and take the path of least resistance, so any leverage you give us will be taken advantage of exponentially. Very few people will choose the harder route if there is no incentive and the other way is just more convenient.
That being said, I'd absolutely play on a first person only server if it were an option.
Which is why we have stated many times now that we will look into different rule-set servers if the numbers are there, we will not, however, force one specific type of FOV/POV onto the majority of our community members, who differ in opinions so widely on this subject as it will alienate a large amount of players.
This isn't even an issue in PvE, you can use your mouse scroll wheel to set the view that best suits your playstyle and vision without impacting anyone else, this is also especially helpful for people who suffer motion sickness.
Glad that both are in the game. I use both, for many different situations. I feel in 1st I have no peripheral vision, like I have blinders on - although tehre might be some settings that affect that in some of these new games, not sure. But I always like to go into 1st when I am speaking with an npc, so I can see them up close. And in combat, in a tight room for example, it sucks being in 3rd person when up against a wall and the camera is going crazy - I have to be in 1st in close quarters.
Kilsin said:Which is why we have stated many times now that we will look into different rule-set servers if the numbers are there, we will not, however, force one specific type of FOV/POV onto the majority of our community members, who differ in opinions so widely on this subject as it will alienate a large amount of players.
This isn't even an issue in PvE, you can use your mouse scroll wheel to set the view that best suits your playstyle and vision without impacting anyone else, this is also especially helpful for people who suffer motion sickness.
Absolutely! Also, I apologize if my post came off snooty sounding. While I would love a first person RPG, it definitely would need to be designed with that in mind. I do hope first person play is viable in Pantheon though. EQ1 on was definitely playable both ways for some time, and was even beneficial to be in first person sometimes rather than 3rd person.
picks86 said:Kilsin said:Which is why we have stated many times now that we will look into different rule-set servers if the numbers are there, we will not, however, force one specific type of FOV/POV onto the majority of our community members, who differ in opinions so widely on this subject as it will alienate a large amount of players.
This isn't even an issue in PvE, you can use your mouse scroll wheel to set the view that best suits your playstyle and vision without impacting anyone else, this is also especially helpful for people who suffer motion sickness.
Absolutely! Also, I apologize if my post came off snooty sounding. While I would love a first person RPG, it definitely would need to be designed with that in mind. I do hope first person play is viable in Pantheon though. EQ1 on was definitely playable both ways for some time, and was even beneficial to be in first person sometimes rather than 3rd person.
Oh I am with you, if we had the numbers for a more hardcore server with a locked first person view I will be one of the first to create a character there, I love the immersion of first person and I am a sucker for punishment but we have to be realistic when it comes to the official servers and many do not like that view, so the mouse scroll wheel for both is a nice middle ground :)
I would prefer this option be left open to the player. This is coming from somebody who used to play EQ1 entirely in 1st person for years. I had to learn how to play in third person view when I started EQ2 and hated it for the longest time. Now I always play in third person view unless I find it better to be in first person.
I often think that some rule sets like first person only, no mini maps and perma death could just be put in any server. I think most players who want these features just want to feel rewarded for this choice or feel the playing field is even. It seems to me that you could just implement these features by giving players a reward of some kind at the character creation stage. It could be as simple as a title to display your “hardcoreness”
First person only = “the immersive”
No in game map = “the explorer”
Perma death = “the resilient”
I think for some players that would be enough. You could look at going further and giving stat bonuses for certain choices.
First person only = +dex
No in game map = +run speed
Perma death = extra exp
And if you really wanted you could limit features or give them to certain races, classes, beliefs, appearances or factions.
I just think that there are ways to give players what they are looking for in one game/server without splitting the community or forcing your game to one design route. I think this could be applied to many ideas and rule sets.
I haven’t put much thought into my examples but im sure people could come up with a better rewards or rule sets.
PhoneticHalo said:I often think that some rule sets like first person only, no mini maps and perma death could just be put in any server. I think most players who want these features just want to feel rewarded for this choice or feel the playing field is even. It seems to me that you could just implement these features by giving players a reward of some kind at the character creation stage. It could be as simple as a title to display your “hardcoreness”
While I think your title idea would be non-advantageous and harmless enough to offer as a reward, if you're going to have 1st/3rd person on the same server, you would have to give a toggleable option. I loved the 1st person only view that was mandatory at EQLaunch; however, once 3rd person views were allowable, I was constantly rotating views from 1st to 3rd while in mid battle to look for adds to taunt, roamers, trains etc. While I would prefer 1st person only, there's no way that having a 3rd person view would not be more advantageous to use unless the bonuses/rewards were ridiculous for 1st person only, which would defeat the purpose for me as I liked 1st person due to the increased difficulty/immersion.
But, I really could go either/or here. I definitely prefer 1st person only, but it would take some time for me to get used to it again due to the benefits of playing in 3rd person. Another idea or compromise between the two was an idea that Munge proposed awhile back that, similar to single player games that when you interact with an NPC etc., it changes your view to 1st person so you become face to face when interacting with the NPC.
One idea I'd like to add to first person perspective - make it so you can rotate the camera without rotating your character. In most MMO's, for example, if you hold the tilde (~) key down, you can rotate the camera around your character without actually impacting the direction your character is facing / moving. Adding this to a first person perspective would essentially emulate turning your head to look behind you, and would make playing in this perspective much more managable and realistic. Unless every character in the game currently has a broken neck, and is in a neck brace, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to look behind them without rotating their entire body.
I would absolutely LOVE a first-person perspective only server. As others have said, making it an option between first, and third is not the same thing as only having first as an option. If I'm given the option, I'll inevitably end up choosing to go with third person because it offers advantages. If everybody on a server has no choice, then I'm not gimping myself by playing in first person and allowing myself greater immersion in the game.
I primarily use 3rd, I pan around alot, a lesson I learned as a noob in commons multiple times from hill giants and griffons.
I would also like to see an adjustable overhead view. Originally EQ had a good overhead camera, you could zoom out enough to make it useable, except in dungeons where that wouldn't have made sense. As a warrior I often used overhead cam while in combat, it gave me precise looks at positioning and I could move as needed to accomodate rogues or pets, but also if we had a wizard in group I would align myself so the mob had to run thru me to get to him/her if agro was an issue, giving me just a bit more time to land that taunt and then cheer, 'Interception!' Anyway, wanted to chime in for an overhead cam.