Forums » Pantheon Classes

The trinity, damage classes, and other ramblings

    • 110 posts
    March 28, 2015 10:20 AM PDT
    Theun said:

    then yes sadly you did miss vanguard because every class was unique and needed or wanted in raid. Now of course some encounters it would better better to have one class over another or some raids a certain class was needed at first. once guild was geared out as always it made it more trivial and you could run without said needed class in some fights. I have also played and raided in many MMO s . EQ,EQ2(easy and hard mode) LoTRO, AoC,WoW, and rift just name a few , but i guess ishould have said as kilsin did. This game is being made and brought to us by the guys that made EQ and vanguard. I know what you are saying just how you feel and i understand and if i felt as you do would say it to. I guess what i should say is that this isnt pen and paper it is brads vision and style of fantasy i dont see why he or they should change what is loved and not broken.

    I really wish people would stop telling me that this game is a successor to EQ and VG.  I know that many of the same people who made EQ and VG are making Pantheon, it's how I heard of Pantheon in the first place.  Being a successor to a good game doesn't mean that the flaws of the first should be copied or that the new game will be perfect.  World of Warcraft was also a successor to EQ, we all know how that turned out.

     

    Brad is not infallible.  If he were then VG wouldn't have been any different from EQ because EQ would have made no mistakes.  The reason why I'm not dropping this topic so easily is because I truly believe that rogues in mmos are broken.  You say "if it ain't broke don't fix it," I'm saying "it is broken, let's make it better."

     

    Finally Brad's vision lines up with pen and paper all over the place.  Brad himself has stated that he played and enjoyed pen and paper games.  My thoughts on the matter are that if pen and paper does something better, then you should try to better emulate pen and paper.

    • 295 posts
    March 28, 2015 12:34 PM PDT

    I feel that some of the mistakes that EQ may have made, turned out to be some of the reasons a lot of people go back to Project1999 to play it.  Every class isn't balanced, I like it that way.  Every time a developer tries to diversify and make classes more interesting, they tend to go too far and make classes able to do too many things.

     

    I would favor a more EQ approach to most things on this subject, however I do feel that you can't have it exactly like EQ anymore, it's too dated, even too slow.  But I also feel Vanguard was too fast, much too fast.  The Disciple was one case of what I wouldn't want to happen to a class in Pantheon, they just took it too far in VG.

     

    EQ with VG sprinkles on top, that's how I like my cupcakes.

    • Moderator
    • 8718 posts
    March 28, 2015 4:58 PM PDT
    Gurt said:
    Kilsin said:

    I am not sure we played the same game mate, there was 4 endgame main Rogues, we all knew each other well and stuck together to try to rectify the mess that entangled the Rogue class.

    Never were we first pick for anything, let alone a group that could have easily picked a Monk with infinite FD to recover wipes and some self healing while being able to off tank or a Bard with insane song utility for the whole group that also have CC, invis, healing etc, whether you agree with the stances or capabilities of the Monks doesn't matter, they still had the edge over the Rogues in most cases, in VG at least and that should never have been the case for the most part.

    I am not going to get into another debate over it though, I spent many years of my VG life speaking up for the Rogue class and I and my fellow Rogues knew better than anyone what our class was capable of and limited by, you can check the old VG forums which are still online, to read through all of the changes and nerf plus broken abilities we had to deal with over the years.

    This is Pantheon though and this game will be challenging, no class will be able to do it all do if you don't play a Monk as a main class, be careful what you wish for, more Dps will come with a loss of something else and a boost to other classes to compensate, also speaking about other main classes that are not your own will usually have negative social consequences when the time comes for your class to get attention, we saw this in VG and it wasn't pretty at all, people speaking their mind on all classes which angered players who played those classes as a main and not just saving their voice for their own main class and the nerf bat got swung hard with other class members teaming up to hinder other class tweaks. I would hope that we do not see that here but with a lot of people that like to comment on many things whether it relates to them or not will be interesting, we will need to be careful to only give feedback on Classes you are passionate about to avoid any risk of other main classes getting angry and speaking up about Shaman's and other classes.


    This is where I would like the Class Lead system to come into play and I plan on putting together a really solid program with Joppa, so we can make sure this doesn't happen and we get the best people leading each class, more on that later though.

    I'm frankly shocked that you would suggest that only people who main a class should have a voice in how that class is balanced and designed.  The people who play and compete with and against rogues have just as valid opinions as the rogues themselves.  When you play a class that is being balanced it is impossible to be completely impartial and unbiased about what changes you want to see, and if only the rogues are listened to you'll end up with rogues being the strongest class until the paladin or warrior or whatever balance patch is completed next month.  This isn't good for the game.  Furthermore, if you must know I main warriors (EQOA, FFXIV, GW, WoW) and rogues (EQ, GW2, AA) in the vast majority of mmos I play, but like Gawd I try to play every class a little.

     

    I'll freely admit that I never got to play VG, I'd never even heard of it until about 2 months before they closed it.  So you may be right that the VG rogue was absolutely perfect in every way.  But the evidence I've seen from the dozen or so mmos that I've played over the years is that the PnP games handle rogues better.

     

    Every class should be wanted for raids.  Unless classes in Pantheon are balanced around the utility they bring to the group/raid this will not happen.

    Why would you be shocked?

     

    It is the developer's job to be impartial and build/balance the class not the players, it is the job of the class members to pick up on issues, find weaknesses, imbalances, glitches and areas for improvement and then pass that information onto their Class Lead, who will then consolidate that information and translate it to the Devs in a professional format.

     

    We need the class members to be passionate for their main classes and feed us all that information, let us then balance it against all the other classes and work with the Class Leads to check against other classes and conduct more specific testing.

     

    Every class will be wanted for raids like they were in VG.

     

    I was merely raising awareness of an issue that has happened in a few games, VG was one of them, were during the class building stages, other classes got involved wanting to voice their opinion on classes that were not their mains and it was noticed and turned against them later on, I do not want to see that happen in Pantheon, as mature as everyone thinks they can be, people are passionate about their main classes that they spend hundreds/thousands of hours invested in and resent others who do not play them properly that comment on their build process, I am still not sure why that shocks you, it happens in nearly every game when it comes to Class creation and balancing.

     

    Being a Warrior/Rogue preferred player, you are welcome to comment on other classes while in development but just be aware that some of those players who only play that class as a main and have done so for many years will be very protective of their classes and will want to work with other passionate and like minded players to help get their class built properly, any outside input from others less passionate can be taken negatively, this has always been the case when MMORPGs allow players in on the build process, it just comes down to being respectful of others when posting in a class that isn't one you play regularly, I wasn't telling Gawd or anyone else not to post.

     

    The Class Lead system worked very well in VG and the classes were some of the best I have ever played, they were unique and all wanted for many things in game, that is what the team and I want for Pantheon too.

    • 2013 posts
    March 29, 2015 7:27 AM PDT
    Hmmm the Class Lead system sounds interesting. Id like to hear more on that. Also I usually play rogue or tank classes. But yo be honest ive missed the inclusion of proper CC and Buff/Debuff classes so much I might just do something out of the ordinary (for me ) for my main. I guess ultimately ill start deciding once more details about classes are revealed..

    A little more on topic. I pretty much agree with the way it sounds most classes in EQ and VG were but thats also due to them sounding very familiar to classes from FFXI as well. Of course just like VG there were a few unique classes and differences. Like Blue Mage (learned monsters abilities) and Ninja (meant to be hybrid dps but through emergent gameplay players turned it into the Blink Tank).

    Personally I prefer a magic or evasion based tank, if I play a tank. Not usually a fan of traditional tanks. Rougue from EQ and VG sounds about same as FFXI. The only difference I see is when you did a Sneak attack in XI you could also turn it into a Trick Attack and use that to boost the tanks agro (mob thinks damage came from tank). As for support classes. All I can say is I really really miss them and hope the are badass in Pantheon as they were in EQ VG and XI.
    • 1558 posts
    March 29, 2015 9:21 AM PDT

    I like the idea of not one class being good at all things, but I do like the dynamic I was able to practice- again comparing to EQ-

    Group with War, Mage (me), druid, chanter, cleric, SK: I would use water pet ( backstab)

    monk, cleric, shaman Mage, rogue, ranger - air (stuns)

    War, cleric, chanter, shaman, mage, Wiz- in Karnors- Fire ( mini bonus caster- PRIOR to improvements, the one that hap-hazzardly rooted, stunned and cast)

    train, what train? ( also fire on some raids- again mini bonus caster with good pet commands that is)

    Mage, BST, Druid, ranger, monk, CLR- Earth ( YES, pet can tank)

     

    But I like the idea of each class being lacking in some way, where in order to finish a quest, you needed to get help.

     

    • 30 posts
    October 15, 2015 11:11 AM PDT

    What everyone is forgetting about the "real" rogues from pen and paper games though is that they had ALL KINDS of uses outside of combat along with being a combatant.  There are no traps to disarm in mmos, there are no pockets to pick, no traps to detect, no doors to unlock.  Although SOME games (very few) have put MAYBE one of those elements into their games and gave rogues the ability to overcome them, they have NEVER been the asset outside of combat that they are in the pen and paper world....because MMOS are fundamentally different.

     

    • 75 posts
    October 19, 2015 1:29 PM PDT

    Rouge... We're talking Moulin Rouge right? :D

    First off, I am very pleased to see that the philosophy behind the classes is that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    I think most people are very quick to forget the importance of solo play versus group play when it comes to utility. When a class is designed with less ability for solo play (Warrior and Rogue come to mind specifically) they should be more powerful in group play. Especially in a game where content is designed around group play.

    It was just as Kilsin said, "You cannot expect to off tank, pull, evade, FD and have top Dps with no positional limitations, that is just being silly."

    As for the "Rogue" vs. "Real Rogue" argument it's impossible to draw a fair comparison just as others have pointed out due to the nature of the worlds in which they were created. Pen and paper has more fundamental ability paths for rogues whereas MMOs so far have been restricted by game mechanics and physical game limitations. For those arguing that the "Pen and Paper" route is more ideal and that the "Real Rogue" is the jack of all trades, simply think about it this way, There aren't as many locks, or pockets to pick, or poison reagents available to them, so they're required to adapt and focus simply on stealth and melee combat. That to me says "jack of all trade" much more :D


    This post was edited by Furor at October 19, 2015 1:32 PM PDT
    • 42 posts
    October 20, 2015 7:11 PM PDT

    I have mixed feelings about the VG rogue, even though I played a rogue in Vanguard from closed beta until 1 year prior to shutdown (with some total breaks from VG in that time). I would agree with Gawd that rogues had a ton of utility and were very desired in groups in the 1-50 game. I absolutely loved playing a rogue before the level cap was raised. We had so many neat tricks and ablities beyond just doing nice dps. Some of my best memories were being puller/splitter and crowd control for my group while we dungeon crawled to the God King in Nusibe. I liked crafting and applying poisons before that system was scrapped and trivialized too. The class was dynamic and fun, in my opinion. During this time, rogues would also frequently top parses, but it was always neck and neck with rangers and drunken monks, at least in my guild, which was clearing APW, so we weren't scrubs or anything.

     

    Post 50, the class sucked (again just my opinion). It was far rarer for stealth to actually work, darts and cc methods were often just hardcoded immune. It got really boring, so much so that I spent my last year in VG taking a necro and monk to max level and raiding with them. They were far more fun to play than a T3 rogue with epic for me.

     

    If Pantheon nails the fun of the rogue 1-50, I may consider returning to the class I have historically played in all MMOs. It was far superior to the EQ rogue, which I also mained for years from 99-04.

     

    Oh and did anyone else say it yet, but the trinity was never tank, heal, dps. It was tank, heal, cc. Dps was what you added after you had the first three. Warrior, cleric, enchanter. The first few years of EQ were built around that group.

     


    This post was edited by Faux at October 20, 2015 7:13 PM PDT
    • 86 posts
    October 21, 2015 9:20 AM PDT

    Faux said:

     

    Oh and did anyone else say it yet, but the trinity was never tank, heal, dps. It was tank, heal, cc. Dps was what you added after you had the first three. Warrior, cleric, enchanter. The first few years of EQ were built around that group.

     

     

    Yay! Someone else remembers the original holy trinity! Will you be my friend? :)

     

    As for classes and their roles: I like what Age of Conan did both combat wise and healing wise. They had/have the best system I've played yet - particularly for healing.

     

    I played healers when I had to, I didn't enjoy the role but I was good enough at it when others didn't want to (my first love was enchanter in EQ). AOC changed that. I love playing a healer in AOC. 

     

    For those that have never tried it: In AOC you had 3 healer types. Offensive (Tempest of Set), defensive (Priest of Mitra) and melee hybrid (Bear Shaman). All three had 3 basic heals - two were hot based, one was a PBAOE heal. HOTs were cone based so position mattered (both of the healer and the group/raid), PBAOE was around the caster so caster position mattered more. The more offensive the Tempest of set was the better they healed. The more the Priest of Mitra healed the better they became of offence. The Bear tended to be more of a balance. They could melee well, take some damage, and heal good. Main thing was for all of them - you had to fight. No staring at health bars. Throw your hots, watch your positioning, fight. It was an absolute joy to play a healer in that game.

     

    I would love to see a similar system in Pantheon.

     

    As for the classes, as long as they have unique feel, unique skills, and little cross over I'll be happy. Obviously among tank types you'll have tank abilities, how they achieve it will be key. Same with DPS, healing, cc.

    I also don't think there's a problem with multiple classes being 'the best' at a role in their own way. Best damage dealer could go to multiple classes but in different flavours. Purely an example: Monk could be best damage dealer over time. Rogues best burst/finishing mobs. Casters best at either... so on. As long as they maintain their unique flavour, the ability to achieve a goal in their own way.

     

    I'm a little leery of giving any class special tools that are required for a group/raid progress through a dungeon. Although the trinity is important and likely the optimum group set up, requiring, say, a rogue to unlock X door to progress means you HAVE to have a rogue. I think it's fine to have multiple ways to pass a barrier, that way one particular class isn't required - it just may be more efficient. For example: Locked door. Rogue, maybe bard, can pick it and everyone is happy. Or several warrior-tank types can beat the thing down - takes longer but it's achievable. Or you have to take a longer route (go around).

     

    • 645 posts
    October 22, 2015 7:51 AM PDT

    I have a problem with the whole holy trinity

    (Which use to be Tank Heal and CC with dps just an add on)

    I want to see the holy square

    Tank heal CC/Utility and DPS

    dont water down the CC utility classes by making them just a by product of some other class....

     

    • Moderator
    • 8718 posts
    October 22, 2015 3:41 PM PDT

    Faux said:

    I have mixed feelings about the VG rogue, even though I played a rogue in Vanguard from closed beta until 1 year prior to shutdown (with some total breaks from VG in that time). I would agree with Gawd that rogues had a ton of utility and were very desired in groups in the 1-50 game. I absolutely loved playing a rogue before the level cap was raised. We had so many neat tricks and ablities beyond just doing nice dps. Some of my best memories were being puller/splitter and crowd control for my group while we dungeon crawled to the God King in Nusibe. I liked crafting and applying poisons before that system was scrapped and trivialized too. The class was dynamic and fun, in my opinion. During this time, rogues would also frequently top parses, but it was always neck and neck with rangers and drunken monks, at least in my guild, which was clearing APW, so we weren't scrubs or anything.

     

    Post 50, the class sucked (again just my opinion). It was far rarer for stealth to actually work, darts and cc methods were often just hardcoded immune. It got really boring, so much so that I spent my last year in VG taking a necro and monk to max level and raiding with them. They were far more fun to play than a T3 rogue with epic for me.

     

    If Pantheon nails the fun of the rogue 1-50, I may consider returning to the class I have historically played in all MMOs. It was far superior to the EQ rogue, which I also mained for years from 99-04.

     

    Oh and did anyone else say it yet, but the trinity was never tank, heal, dps. It was tank, heal, cc. Dps was what you added after you had the first three. Warrior, cleric, enchanter. The first few years of EQ were built around that group.

     

    I couldn't agree more mate, 1-50 was king for the Rogue and most of everything else in VG, 51+ made a lot fo changes for the worse. Rogue were forced into duel daggers at 51+ which is why we lost a lot of Dps and had to be "balanced".

    The perfect Rogue I refer to in VG is definitely the 1-50 Rogue :)

    • Moderator
    • 8718 posts
    October 22, 2015 3:44 PM PDT

    Sevens said:

    I have a problem with the whole holy trinity

    (Which use to be Tank Heal and CC with dps just an add on)

    I want to see the holy square

    Tank heal CC/Utility and DPS

    dont water down the CC utility classes by making them just a by product of some other class....

     

    Check out our FAQ mate ;)

    Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?

    Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels. That said, because we feel it’s important that classes fulfill distinct roles, creating interdependence is vital to a fulfilling social and cooperative experience. If everyone is the same, this simply cannot be achieved. Likewise, if every class is absolutely unique, grouping can become overly complicated and, in some cases, certain classes could be less desirable to have in a group than others. To avoid this, Pantheon will use a ‘quaternity’ system consisting of tank, healer, DPS, and crowd-control.

    • 645 posts
    October 23, 2015 6:20 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Sevens said:

    I have a problem with the whole holy trinity

    (Which use to be Tank Heal and CC with dps just an add on)

    I want to see the holy square

    Tank heal CC/Utility and DPS

    dont water down the CC utility classes by making them just a by product of some other class....

     

    Check out our FAQ mate ;)

    Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?

    Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels. That said, because we feel it’s important that classes fulfill distinct roles, creating interdependence is vital to a fulfilling social and cooperative experience. If everyone is the same, this simply cannot be achieved. Likewise, if every class is absolutely unique, grouping can become overly complicated and, in some cases, certain classes could be less desirable to have in a group than others. To avoid this, Pantheon will use a ‘quaternity’ system consisting of tank, healer, DPS, and crowd-control.

    I think you misunderstand my point (or im not making myself clear which happens a lot lol)

    I fully support roles for classes, I fully support specialized roles....my problem are games that focus only on the TRINITY....tank heal dps

    I want support and utility classes to be just as important as them

    I trust Brad and the Pantheon team to give us vital and needed classes that are not focused on tank, heal or dps....

    Pullers, Crowd control, buffers, debuffers....all those should have a needed place in a group and raid

    Thats why I said a holy square instead of trinity


    This post was edited by Sevens at October 23, 2015 6:20 AM PDT
    • 392 posts
    October 23, 2015 11:32 AM PDT

    If I could like your post Sevens I would .. Totally agree with the holy square :) . Utility , buffers , debuffers  , pullers ..  The support classes .. They don't want nor need the glory ... Yet they make things easier for everyone .. 


    This post was edited by Shea at October 23, 2015 2:15 PM PDT
    • Moderator
    • 8718 posts
    October 25, 2015 8:57 PM PDT

    Sevens said:

    Kilsin said:

    Sevens said:

    I have a problem with the whole holy trinity

    (Which use to be Tank Heal and CC with dps just an add on)

    I want to see the holy square

    Tank heal CC/Utility and DPS

    dont water down the CC utility classes by making them just a by product of some other class....

     

    Check out our FAQ mate ;)

    Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?

    Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels. That said, because we feel it’s important that classes fulfill distinct roles, creating interdependence is vital to a fulfilling social and cooperative experience. If everyone is the same, this simply cannot be achieved. Likewise, if every class is absolutely unique, grouping can become overly complicated and, in some cases, certain classes could be less desirable to have in a group than others. To avoid this, Pantheon will use a ‘quaternity’ system consisting of tank, healer, DPS, and crowd-control.

    I think you misunderstand my point (or im not making myself clear which happens a lot lol)

    I fully support roles for classes, I fully support specialized roles....my problem are games that focus only on the TRINITY....tank heal dps

    I want support and utility classes to be just as important as them

    I trust Brad and the Pantheon team to give us vital and needed classes that are not focused on tank, heal or dps....

    Pullers, Crowd control, buffers, debuffers....all those should have a needed place in a group and raid

    Thats why I said a holy square instead of trinity

    Oh I understood you mate, which is why I posted the description, the last line is what I was referring too ;) 

    "To avoid this, Pantheon will use a ‘quaternity’ system consisting of tank, healer, DPS, and crowd-control."

    We understand the balance required and that the holy trinity has evolved from Tank ,Healer, CC to Tank, Healer, CC, Dps + utility should play an important part with support roles for those classes, hence our new word ‘quaternity’. :)

    • 531 posts
    October 27, 2015 3:17 PM PDT

    I always said, All we need is a tank strong enough to tank, and a healer strong enough to heal, DPS just makes it go faster :P Now this is very rudimentary as some fights do have DPS checks, and mechanics etc, but a strong tank, and a strong healer will always be more important then a strong DPS!

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    • 8718 posts
    October 27, 2015 5:09 PM PDT

    Dreconic said:

    I always said, All we need is a tank strong enough to tank, and a healer strong enough to heal, DPS just makes it go faster :P Now this is very rudimentary as some fights do have DPS checks, and mechanics etc, but a strong tank, and a strong healer will always be more important then a strong DPS!

    Good luck with a timed burn fight my friend! Dps and CC/Utility is much more than just extra muscle or a mezz/buff here and there :)

    • 21 posts
    October 28, 2015 9:00 AM PDT

    Dreconic said:

    I always said, All we need is a tank strong enough to tank, and a healer strong enough to heal, DPS just makes it go faster :P Now this is very rudimentary as some fights do have DPS checks, and mechanics etc, but a strong tank, and a strong healer will always be more important then a strong DPS!

    Strongly disagree. A well-designed fight ensures that every member has to perform to get the kill. A fight starts getting fun when several players can communicate and teamwork to deal with something your average player can't! :)

    • 19 posts
    December 15, 2015 2:16 AM PST

    Gurt said:

    Theun said:

    then yes sadly you did miss vanguard because every class was unique and needed or wanted in raid. Now of course some encounters it would better better to have one class over another or some raids a certain class was needed at first. once guild was geared out as always it made it more trivial and you could run without said needed class in some fights. I have also played and raided in many MMO s . EQ,EQ2(easy and hard mode) LoTRO, AoC,WoW, and rift just name a few , but i guess ishould have said as kilsin did. This game is being made and brought to us by the guys that made EQ and vanguard. I know what you are saying just how you feel and i understand and if i felt as you do would say it to. I guess what i should say is that this isnt pen and paper it is brads vision and style of fantasy i dont see why he or they should change what is loved and not broken.

    I really wish people would stop telling me that this game is a successor to EQ and VG.  I know that many of the same people who made EQ and VG are making Pantheon, it's how I heard of Pantheon in the first place.  Being a successor to a good game doesn't mean that the flaws of the first should be copied or that the new game will be perfect.  World of Warcraft was also a successor to EQ, we all know how that turned out.

     

    Brad is not infallible.  If he were then VG wouldn't have been any different from EQ because EQ would have made no mistakes.  The reason why I'm not dropping this topic so easily is because I truly believe that rogues in mmos are broken.  You say "if it ain't broke don't fix it," I'm saying "it is broken, let's make it better."

     

    Finally Brad's vision lines up with pen and paper all over the place.  Brad himself has stated that he played and enjoyed pen and paper games.  My thoughts on the matter are that if pen and paper does something better, then you should try to better emulate pen and paper.

     

    This game is a the successor of EQ1 and Vanguard.  In fact one of the early level dungeons in Vanguard was named Pantheon.

    • 87 posts
    December 15, 2015 3:00 AM PST

    Dreconic said:

    I always said, All we need is a tank strong enough to tank, and a healer strong enough to heal, DPS just makes it go faster :P Now this is very rudimentary as some fights do have DPS checks, and mechanics etc, but a strong tank, and a strong healer will always be more important then a strong DPS!

    I can't agree.  the game and all games are about balance - dps is not easy, when you consider all the elements that are required to make fights successful.  Ability to kill something of course, me as tank and my healer may as well be using spitballs.  But what about interrupts and interrupt rotations to avoid insta gib abilites that would kill me or my healer.  what about ability to navigate mob abilities so that the raid manages aoe affects.  what about stacking to share dmg, what about target switch and burn, what about kiting...what about......

    I tank and heal because i am a control freak but also because dps can be horrid sometimes.  I agree that some fights, poorly designed fights may be face roll - side step fire, hit mob/shoot mob in face but these are rare.

     

    ok queue dps love :)

    • 51 posts
    January 4, 2016 3:59 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Sevens said: 

    Check out our FAQ mate ;)

    Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?

    Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels.

     

    Has the question of which roles will be available to which class been addressed yet? I understand it's still early on and maybe these decisions have not been fully fleshed out yet, but it completely decides whether or not i upgrade my pledge standing. I like to play a plate wearing class who's main role is to dps. Will this be an option or will i be relagated to tanking duties? Thanks in advance.

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    • 8718 posts
    January 4, 2016 4:45 AM PST

    Aldie said:

    Kilsin said:

    Sevens said: 

    Check out our FAQ mate ;)

    Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?

    Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels.

     

    Has the question of which roles will be available to which class been addressed yet? I understand it's still early on and maybe these decisions have not been fully fleshed out yet, but it completely decides whether or not i upgrade my pledge standing. I like to play a plate wearing class who's main role is to dps. Will this be an option or will i be relagated to tanking duties? Thanks in advance.

    No, not yet mate but that is something we will address as we release more class information, as we also have race/class restrictions that we will release too.

    • 51 posts
    January 4, 2016 6:41 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Aldie said:

    Kilsin said:

    Sevens said: 

    Check out our FAQ mate ;)

    Will Pantheon's classes have clear-cut roles such as the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps) or will they be much more flexible/customizable?

    Pantheon does indeed use a class based system, and those classes do fulfill roles, especially in group and raid contexts. There will also be opportunities to focus each class on more specific and specialized roles, especially at higher levels.

     

    Has the question of which roles will be available to which class been addressed yet? I understand it's still early on and maybe these decisions have not been fully fleshed out yet, but it completely decides whether or not i upgrade my pledge standing. I like to play a plate wearing class who's main role is to dps. Will this be an option or will i be relagated to tanking duties? Thanks in advance.

    No, not yet mate but that is something we will address as we release more class information, as we also have race/class restrictions that we will release too.

    Cheers. Can't wait for that info to come out!

    • 156 posts
    January 29, 2016 11:46 AM PST

    I was confused by the original post regarding the holy trinity.  In my world, it's Tank Cleric & Enchanter.  That's the way it is in EverQuest.  You get your base setup and start inviting DPS afterward.  Then I began reading the thread and fortunately I'm not alone.

    I suspect Pantheon, proposed not to be a soft cuddly fuzzy game, will firmly plant Enchanters back into that equation (shows how much I get out, I didn't know it changed) otherwise the game will be on the easy side.  It's precisely why Enchanters are part of the original holy trinity, meant as a frying pan strapped across your buttocks.

    Still, all classes should be viable to some degree.  But you aren't going to get around not being able to have a formal tank unless it's a pet group and a means to heal and deal with adds.

    • 1823 posts
    January 29, 2016 6:27 PM PST

    Vade said:

    I was confused by the original post regarding the holy trinity.  In my world, it's Tank Cleric & Enchanter.  That's the way it is in EverQuest.  You get your base setup and start inviting DPS afterward.  Then I began reading the thread and fortunately I'm not alone.

    I suspect Pantheon, proposed not to be a soft cuddly fuzzy game, will firmly plant Enchanters back into that equation (shows how much I get out, I didn't know it changed) otherwise the game will be on the easy side.  It's precisely why Enchanters are part of the original holy trinity, meant as a frying pan strapped across your buttocks.

    Still, all classes should be viable to some degree.  But you aren't going to get around not being able to have a formal tank unless it's a pet group and a means to heal and deal with adds.

    I think people should start to think beyond some Holy Trinity group.  Look at the emergent gamplay in EQ1 that manifested due to creative application by the playerbase of class skills and abilities.  Depending upon the situation, there were any number of viable group compositions.  Some group compositions were vastly superior to the typical Holy Trinity based group, able to gain XP at high rates in locations average groups wouldn't dare visit. Why should we not then expect the same from Pantheon?