Will playing Pantheon involve ‘camping’?
This is a tricky question to answer, primarily because ‘camping’ means many different things to many people. To some, camping means sitting around in one place for hours on end with lots of downtime and lots of boredom too. To others, it means moving to different locations, establishing a foothold in a dangerous area, and then often having one or more members of the group ‘pulling’ mobs back to that foothold. The developers of Pantheon are interested far more in the latter than the former. If done correctly, this style of gameplay can be a lot of fun and also provide opportunities to socialize. That said, while Terminus is more of an open ‘sandbox’ world and not about moving linearly from one quest hub to another, establishing footholds in the depths of dungeons will not be the only way to advance your character.
So then tell us more about the concept of ‘pulling’ and ‘crowd control’?
In many cases, we want to bring back the gameplay of pulling and splitting packs of mobs. To facilitate this players will need tools that make this possible. These tools will come in the form of spells and abilities that allow you to ‘lull’ or ‘pacify’ the mob. In cases where you have to deal with more than one mob some classes will have the ability to cast spells like ‘root’, ‘snare’, ‘mesmerize’, etc.
This is taken from the FAQ on the website. I think its safe to see an EverQuest 1 system will be used mostly... perhaps some exceptions will exist when dealing with boss encounters and scripted events. EverQuest 1 did it right --- Social agro, healing/mezzing packs of monsters that were dangeorous if they came together. Each "camp" was essentially a puzzle to solve in order to break it successfully.
Silvanoshi said:
EverQuest 1 did it right --- Social agro, healing/mezzing packs of monsters that were dangeorous if they came together. Each "camp" was essentially a puzzle to solve in order to break it successfully.
I loved pulling in EQ1, Got to the point that just about every zone i knew down to the 10-15 seconds what the spawn time was for that zone/area. Once we would get established I would know exactly what mob would spawn next and we would be ready for it. We would know exactly when the named PH spot would pop not by looking at a clock but knowing the last 3 rounds we pulled this spot right before it popped. We would judge how much better we where each round by whether or not we killed 1-3 extra mobs that round. If you wanted to know if that new DPS replacement was better or worse, you could judge based on how many mobs you killed the next round after he joined, not by some number in a chart that said he did X over last second.
To me this is much more immersive and fun than running around every mob pull with the tank leading (AKA WoW). At least in EQ you could kind of camp a certain area of a dungeon but even that was about 80% roaming and 20% staying in an area.
And in regards to Brad's statement about some finding that boring for lack of something to do, only time should be bored is when everyone is medding, otherwise the puller should be in communication with the tank/healer and know how many and how often the mobs can come into camp to keep a constant cycle.
If it is not obvious I prefer mobs not to be linked so we can do real pulling, not just face pulling as you know you have to pull all the mobs here ala EQ2
Fulton said:
Yes, while "camping" was often frowned upon after most of us left EQ1. Many fail to realize it was that downtime inbetween mobs that allowed us to socialize and build those strong friendships and bonds that, for many, still exist today.
GW2 lost me on the first week becuase you never had time to socialize unless you did it in a voice chat. You had to click and click and click to do anything in that game, and if you where not clicking you where not helping the group. Dungeons where a quick 5 minute talk before hand, maybe a bit of strategy before a boss, and a lot of yelling after wipes...
Same as many others here, I think that the original EQ (before abilities were farmed out to so many classes, that everyone could do anything) had the pulling system right.
Linked mobs are ok as one of many situations, not as something that happens all the time.
The game needs to provide situations for all kinds of pulling techniques, and crowd control as well. If mobs are linked, they are a job for mezzers (or off-tanks). If they aren't, then assorted pulling techniques can be used.
Second, linked mobs were used in many games where the game was made much easier, through making a mob easier. In many of those games, a single player could charge into a group of mobs and kill them all - and I mean level-appropriate mobs, not low-level ones. This was getting ridiculous. For example, in Rift, regular outdoor mobs, the only way I would die is if I fall asleep on my keyboard. Of course linking them makes sense, since if they could be single pulled, it would further trivialize an already trivial challenge.
However, if you make mobs a challenge - and Pantheon is based on being a challenge - then there must be ways to single pull, and/or to crowd control; if a single mob is a challenge, a group of 4 of them are a group-wipeout.
Which is as it should be.
So, start with the system as it was in original EQ, add some linked mobs where it makes sense, and you'll be fine.
I didn't like linked mobs. I prefered, and still to this day, EQ1's style of pulling. It gives the people who enjoy that aspect of the game (these guys see every nook and cranny of the dungeons by simply coming up with strats for breaking camps/keeping a good flow). Some much so, it's an art form. SOme people can do it. Others are just not cut out for it. Same can be said for any class, really. Not many could pull off what Enchanters could do in EQ, unless you were one of the skilled few. Bards as well.
Linked mobs with EQ2/WoW removed this style of pulling. Anyone could pull if they wanted to because you knew this pack, and only that pack, of mobs will aggro you. Kill. Move onto the next. It's like linked mobs do not social aggro other linked encounters. That was a bummer for me. You can run around like a headless chicken and body pull everything in the room. But who does that?
I know people are worried that CC classes wont have much to do. That never stopped most enchanters from keeping that mez spell memed, because no matter how good of a puller you were...you were going to get several pulls with multiple mobs chasing you. Or simply didn't care because there was a chanter in the group; could relax a bit (the puller).
There's also the camp that wants to put logic into the whole thing: "who wouldn't help their friend if they were about to get beat down". I think they are trying to address that with their advanced AI thing.
So I'm inclined to vote against linked encounters.
I like the linked mob concept with a twist. That if you pull linked mobs and one runs and you don't kill it, a larger one or more (all) come to kill you. Makes the need to kill everything and control the crowd a must. Makes it more exciting. I do somewhat miss running for the zone :).
