When EQ was young, there really weren't any armor quests. I remember being level 20 and still half naked. People relied on drops from nameds mostly. Sure there was some sub par crafted such as banded,etc. but for the most part it was all about the drops and hoping for people to show charity here and there until you got high enough you could do some named mobs yourself or farm some plat to buy some stuff, unless you got your plat off ebay or from the cash/item shop if one is available but I always pretend it doesn't exist unless I have free credits built up. EQ didn't have a cash shop at launch anyhow, something I am grateful for, same with VG.
Other games have such an over abundance of armor quests available there is not much reason to buy dropped armor in general and not much reason to buy crafted either unless it's high end endgame stuff (master crafted, etc.) .
In your opinion, what's the best balance of needed drops vs crafted vs armor quests ? Should early EQ had armor quests ? Did VG have too many armor quests or was it perfect ? What balance should there be so that quested/crafted and looted are all relevant ? Should cash shops even exist ? And if so, should it just be for fluff items that are non pay to win ?
This discussion isn't limited to armor, the exact same things could apply to weapons and perhaps other gear.
Dont know how VG did it, never played
Loved the EQ system of just equipping what you found until (mid 30s iirc) and you could do the armor quest in Sol Ro (i think). Getting my Lambent armor on my bard was one of the highlights of my game life....and it lasted you till forever, no replacing armor sets every 5 levels.
I loved that Lambent armor on my bard too, it was so shiny and perdy . Right before I quit I gave it to the Priest of Discord and it was fun seeing him wear it
On one hand in early EQ I sort of loved having being able to twink new characters with stuff they would wear from level 1 all the way up to level 50. It was nice just being able to concentrate on having fun and killing stuff/doing dungeons and not having to worry about gear. At the same time though the other half of me thinks this was a bad thing so I guess I am torn on that subject LOL . I remember later on in EQ you could still properly twink a character but you wouldn't be given full stats for the stuff right away and would get more and more benefit from it as you leveled but at least you will still set and didn't need anything else til high level, but even this I am torn on .
I would like to see armor readily available through quests. Not good armor though. Using the common, uncommon, rare, and legendary categories simply because it is simple I would like to see it as such:
Common gear drops from trash MoBs. Better than nothing but common for a reason.
Uncommon drops from most MoBs but at a low rate. For example if all you did was solo from 1-10 by level 10 you would be lucky to get a full set. Some quests would reward with you this kind of item. Crafting classes would make a slightly buffed version of this with basic mats.
Rare drops would be very scarce to a solo-duo character but not unobtainable. Groups would be able to find it well enough. So if you grouped from 1-10 you would likely have more than half your gear in this tier. Few quests would give them.
Legendary quality loot would drop very rarely from full party bosses. More common would be mats from said bosses that crafters could use to forge said gear. Some "epic" quests, would also reward the player with the occasional item.
This way it would be rare to be completely gimped due to poor luck or circumstance that would force you to grind for simple gear, but for those who worked for it the rewards would be great. What's more it keeps crafting relevant without being able to realistically rely solely on crafting or adventuring for gear.
To clarify I do not want this to be like a loot grind game. I just used that system as a general guide to explain my opinion.
Mind you all of this is meaningless if you can level quickly, but that is a topic for another thread.
I think "purple" is a lasting MMO problem. I hope that Pantheon absolutely goes away from the notion of telling players that gear in general is good or bad based on the color of the text on the item.
Why am I saying that?
Because I think it has impact on the crafted / quested / dropped question.
In today's MMO's players just want purple, orange, or whatever other color it is that tells them a piece of gear is "better" even to the point of proudly wearing said purple when a lowly blue with better stats sits in their bag unused. In short, they want the game to give them the best just because they pay as much as everyone else - never mind whether or not the other guy spends 50 hours a week in the game and they spend 5.
SO - bringing this around (a long route, I know) to my point: People first need to decide that they need gear that is good for whatever it is they are doing within the game... not the best in the game even if they never need it. Once you get to that point - I think you balance it all out across all 3 things (crafted / quested / dropped) - at each sort of broad band level of the game.
Do you group but never raid for example? Then your best gear set will be good for grouping - and will consist of drops you get from grouping, group quests you can do, and crafted items that contain materials you need to group to get.
Do you raid? Then your best gear set will be good for raiding - and will consist of drops you get from raid bosses, quests that have raid components involved, and crafted items that contain materials you can only get from raiding.
That sort of thing.
But as said - you first have to get today's player base past the concept of "It doesn't matter if I only group with the same 5 people and only we only play twice a week, I should be able to have the same uber gear as that guy who raids with 40 people and plays 8 hours a day"
In my opinion there should be a nice range of drops dependent on your level like how EQ did it. You start the game at level 1 and you find a bunch of cloth armor. Its crap but you wore it anyway because it offers better protection then just skin. You might get that lucky drop that gives you a piece of armor with some measly stats but that's it. as you get higher in levels then its going to improve what you get and the named mobs will drop an item from a table so its not always guaranteed and it might be a somewhat crap item as well(think frenzied ghoul)
Also no color coding please. The gear you wear should be dependent on your play style. If you want high agility for you monk then you pick gear that has high agility stats, same goes if you want to play a dexterity build. Obviously raid mobs or dungeon bosses will drop better loot but it doesn't always mean that it is awesome loot for how you build the character. A raid dragon might drop a sweet monk item but you might choose to go with that crafted piece of armor or dungeon boss drop because it offers higher stats in agility or it has more haste, etc.
I liked how VG handled it in the early days and I think with a few tweaks it would suit Pantheon well. The itemisation needs to be balanced properly though for this system to work.
VG had different branches of quest lines that were very in depth every 5 to 10 levels, like Vol Tuniel, RI, Heg, Swamps, Griffon, Teh Harbour etc, all these chunks had specific quested armour/weapon lines that you could choose to do and usually there would be an alternative quest line on a different continent around the same level range if you wanted a different look or experience, which was great for alts or a main that wanted to collect it all.
Those armour/weapons quest lines would gear you up nicely for the next 5-10 levels where you would only replace some of the gear with very rare or hard to get pieces or when it was time to quest in another story driven chunk, it was also a great way to deliver lore.
I think a good mix of EQ/VG would best suit Pantheon though but I do feel the loot needs to be distributed based on effort put in or risk/effort/price of crafted gear. I don't want to step into a new chunk and be gifted awesome armour nor do I want to go 20 levels without getting something new and shiny that I felt I worked hard for, there needs to be a nice balance or risk versus reward and not too often or too long between these challenges. It's all about balance.
For me, I always thought that your class trainer/master/whatever should give quests to get a basic set of gear, either as rewards or as drops from the mobs that you have to kill. After that all the gear should be dropped or crafted. In my mud days, weapons and armor did not have color designations, it was all about learning what was most important for your play style. I hope that Pantheon follows this route. Do not make a designation of how good the equipment is based on color or the like. Give all the gear/equipment the same color name/titles/descriptions and leave it up to the players to determine what is best for them. I do believe that if Epic class/race gear is implemented then that should definitately be quested but also make it so that there is LORE behind the quests and the items.
I don't mind gear being assigned a color based on its rarity. If anything, it helps speed along the selling of trash loot at the local vendor, make it toggleable. As for crafted gear, lets face it, you get crafted gear to fill in a slot until you get a nice piece of adventured gear. So a good set of crafted gear should have well rounded stats that are decent, but not quite as good as the level appropriate adventured gear. Crafters should be able to craft raid appropriate gear using recipes and special materials gotten from raid mobs. Adventured gear should be rare, but not insanely rare, and should sport some extra goodies , ie. once a day clickie buffs, passive effects (see invis), clickie DD or dot on a longish timer, etc. clickies are gonna be a big deal since we're gonna be limited on spell slots. There should be no cash shops. Fluff items should be quested, gifted, crafted, or rare drops from trash mobs.
I agree with others about staying away from colours.
Similar armour with different stats and resistances plus epic quest armour down the line somewhere gets my vote.
I don't want to encourage the crowd who inspect you when you join a group and then disband you because 'your gear sucks'. We can do without that sort of person here and anything that encourages that sort of thing (like colour coding armour ) has no place in Pantheon
I remember my wiz and cleric armor quest. When I started then. Having to run around killing wasps and snakes for both toon. Skellies for cleric and orcs for wiz, wait come to think of it the ingredients for both sets were pretty much the same except wizzy's was cloth and cleric's was plate. I wore both sets till, like everyone else has stated, something better dropped or was given to me. I think starter gear like Eq when I started it is good for low levels. It lets people get a feel for the character they are playing. It also lets them decide if they are going to like it enough to stick it out. I changed toons so many times till I was comfortable with my 3 main ones then it became my 2. At one time I had all my slots full trying out different toons to see what I liked to most. Cleric and wizard from EQ, Hunter from Wow, Cleric and rogue from LOTRO, and Cleric from D&DOL.
I think armor drops and starter armor quest are important. It is how we learn and how our toons evolve and grow.
Of all of the MMOs that I have played, I loved how EQOA (Everquest Online Adventures) handled armor the best. At level 17 you got your first true armor set quests. These quests were long and they required a lot of running around and exploring. I believe the lv 17 quests were designed specifically to send you off into the world to learn through your own exploration. You also got a chance to pick up more coaches (means of traveling between the cities and outposts).
There were more armor quests at 23 and 25 but by this time, you were learning about rare mobs that dropped good loot and you hopefully picked up a craft or two.
For the most part, while leveling up, you wore crafted gear. As you moved into raiding, you wore spoils from raids or other rare finds but crafted gear was OK too. There was not much min/maxing on that game (at least when I played) because you could literally bring 80 people to a raid if you wanted. You didn't really have to have the best loot to take raid mobs down, there was some safety in numbers and strategy.
I would like to see some iconic armor quests, but certainly not new armor every level from a bunch of common "hub" quests. I really enjoyed the heritage and signature quest lines in EQ2. I finally went back a few years ago and finished the Qeynos Claymore quest on EQ2, what an amazing quest and a really neat reward!
Seeing as though crafting will not be in-game at launch, I think it would be pointless to say most gear should be crafted (Even though I would like this). To this end, I think I would like to see some really long, difficult and engaging armor quests for each tier. I also hope there will be a bunch of hidden treasures throughout the game for us to discover, be it rare mobs with good loot, rare quests (quest giver spawns randomly in different places and at different times - de-spawns once one person takes the quest) or random chests.
I loved VG's armor quest chains that went for 10-20 lvls before you had the whole set, Hunters league comes to mind, can't remember the exact lvl's but you would get a pair of gloves and maybe boots at say lvl 15 which could be done solo then come back at maybe late teens early 20's for another piece or two but you would need a small party of 2-3 for these and then the final bits at say late 20's early 30's required a huge chain quest and at the end required a full group and a damn fun and hard quest / dungeon to be completed to obtain your final piece.