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October Producer's Letter Details 247

    • VR Staff
    • 529 posts
    October 26, 2023 6:47 AM PDT

    The October Producer's Letter is now available and we take a moment to look at the 247 gameplay mode and what it means for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. Get the latest information and check the dates for important incoming content, including a public Q&A, happening tonight.

    • 79 posts
    October 26, 2023 7:04 AM PDT

    "Pantheon as an MMO will return to testing next year. So between now and its return, Pantheon web content will slow, although expect a minimum of a Producer’s Letter and Development Update once per month. We understand you will have many questions and concerns and we would like to invite you to join us in Discord from 5pm to 6:30pm PDT, October 26th, in the 247 Public Q&A Stage channel where Community Manager Jamie “Savanja” Henry will be joined by Creative Director Chris “Joppa” Perkins to answer your questions live"

    The only important part of that wishy washy PR corporate statement.

    • 75 posts
    October 26, 2023 7:19 AM PDT
    Been sitting back for a while reading forum posts and seeing how they have responded to the current criticism of their choices and it just blows my mind away.

    Sorry Pantheon Devs but the way you guys respond to people just comes across defensive and even in this news letter it just feels like you are already coming up with excuses as to why you are doing things before this post inevitably blows up in your face. It's funny to me that almost where I read things in any post it feels the majority are saying this is a bad idea (granted I only pledged for $250 so there may be other places that I don't have access to where others say different) yet you seem to brush that off and downplay it saying "We are aware that some players feel that it would be a departure from the original game." Sorry Pantheon Devs it's more than just "some players"

    I don't want to type a 15 paragraph rant on all this in the letter as I'm sure some will later. But plain and simple, it honestly just feels like you guys are trying to milk the cash cow before closing up shop. Crowdfunding does have its ups and downs and we know this, but the way you guys choose to handle is where the problem lies.

    At this point your newsletter sounds less like an update and more of an attempt to try and put out fires, all the while you're holding the gas and matches.
    This post was edited by OGTomkins at October 26, 2023 7:30 AM PDT
    • 128 posts
    October 26, 2023 8:04 AM PDT

    So, this article answered about zero questions and was pretty much the worst case possible. 

    100% PR talk, with almost zero substance. A prime example of how to NOT interact with an upset community. You really need to hire a real PR person that can set you straight on what to say and what not to say.

    The takeaway for me was the part about funding being slow and not being able to work as fast due to that. Reading further into that: Unless more funding shows up, we may never see the game. And yes, I know you have said otherwise, but actions speak louder and facts also do. 10 Years guys. 10 years,... and all we have is a tech demo and a bunch of empty promises and PR posts.

    • 3852 posts
    October 26, 2023 8:15 AM PDT
    I do not disagree with the above comments. Had we not had many years of rosy predictions followed by substantially not rosy accomplishments I might have been more impressed by the letter. But we have. And I am not.

    The tone was very much along the lines of we will do this - we will do that - such and such will happen - we are considering whatever. Sorry but the time for PR-speak has come. And gone.

    One very specific point. The letter mentioned a Q&A on Discord. Tonight.

    Are you out of your minds?

    Firstly to hold something that so many people have wanted on less than a full day notice. Secondly to bury it deeply in the newsletter and not to visibly and emphatically announce it separately in the announcement forums and the general discussion forums.

    Over 30 years spouse and I have both had jobs where we got to see, and to some extent shape, how major corporations dealt with bad news. What they did to try and turn bad into good or at a minimum reduce the negative impact of bad news. This is not the way.

    By edit - the announcement is now up. Thank you.
    This post was edited by dorotea at October 26, 2023 11:03 AM PDT
    • 173 posts
    October 26, 2023 8:27 AM PDT
    I’ve read the October Producer’s Letter and I am still confused why we have this 24/7 extraction game mode. Why can’t it be a MMORPG mini game mode? Or just a MMORPG with the experience gain and drop rates cranked down low to make it last as long as they want to get to max level? Why are they making a completely different genera game where there is little overlap on the player base? Let’s see, I have 10 years of experience with making a MMORPG and zero experience with extraction games. What should I make?
    • 128 posts
    October 26, 2023 9:14 AM PDT

    Good point there,... we did not even get an answer as to WHY this mode was necessary and worth it. Also the 5% went up to 10% already.

    If 247 is just a jumping board into the real game with a timer,... why not, you know... play the real game and add a timer to that? Forced reset every 24 hours, 2 weeks.... whatever. And next question: Why do you need resets anyway? The PR talk was about "we can't make content faster than player consume it,..." - yeah, no kidding. We knew that already. And that phrase has been used as an excuse in about 23098134876 games in the past 1289376 years. May have exaggerated the numbers by 5-10%.

    • 318 posts
    October 26, 2023 9:48 AM PDT
    Weren't we supposed to get an IMPROVED version of the road to Alpha tracker?

    Unless I'm missing something, this new version they put out is a big step backwards. It doesn't show any of the old alpha milestones they were working towards. Where are they at with the progress with the networking infrastructure? What about pet implementation?

    They should have kept using the old progress system until this new one was ready. Because the way it is now is just patch notes. Not showing any of the progress towards bigger items at all.
    • 252 posts
    October 26, 2023 11:34 AM PDT
    Savanja said:

    The October Producer's Letter is now available and we take a moment to look at the 247 gameplay mode and what it means for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. Get the latest information and check the dates for important incoming content, including a public Q&A, happening tonight.



    Is it a gameplay mode or a game? Please clarify this because your communications so far seem to be saying both.
    This post was edited by Ruinar at October 26, 2023 11:35 AM PDT
    • 18 posts
    October 26, 2023 12:41 PM PDT
    I will try it once this new game is added to pledge packages with Alpha access later this year. But my interest in Battle Royal style gameplay and the spin-off that is an extraction mode/game is very limited.

    While I originally found such a mode interesting when it first came about, it quickly gave way to frustration as some players exploited mechanics and found ways to cheat because of the highly competitive gameplay. In my opinion, this kind of mode is a trend that should be used sparingly as an extra/bonus activity. I find that the rush and ultra-efficient gameplay mindsets that certain players gravitated towards tend to take hold quickly with this type of game.

    It's also not the way I have fun with games in the long term. I have, so far, permanently lost interest in any game that has tried using an extraction mode as a main endgame activity or a primary PvP system.

    I can see reaching a wider audience as being financially beneficial for development. But there is also the issue of that audience generating pressure to develop more content for the game/system that attracted them in the first place, and that is potentially providing a constant influx of revenue. I realize that pivoting to take advantage of a new opportunity is a part of business, so I can't blame VR if that is the eventual route chosen. But I remember buying into Fortnite Save the World and getting burned when they pivoted to a Battle Royal game as a customer who believed in their initial product and vision. But they did make a ton of money at the end of the day and still are.

    Saying that I am disappointed is not accurate at this point, but I am concerned and somewhat sad. I hope it all works out for fans and supporters.
    • 80 posts
    October 26, 2023 1:11 PM PDT
    Good to keep in mind, if 247 is successful, they have zero incentive to complete Pantheon. If not, they're even further behind, if that's even possible.

    They said they've been developing it since September. Hmm what else happened in September, can't quite put my finger on it..... Whatever, I'm sure it's unrelated.
    • 47 posts
    October 30, 2023 2:18 PM PDT
    After the disaster of EqNext, the announce of Pantheon, nearly 10 years ago, came as the last hope for EQ like next generation game.
    When pledges became available, I put 250$ without too much thinking. Though it was (and is still) a lot of money, pledging was really
    a desperate attempt fueled by nostalgy and huge expectations.
    Years have passed, progress was slow and tedious. Many steps backward took their toll on my hopes.
    Expectations slowly transformed into frustration, though I was still so eager to read producer newsletters and watch youtube videos.
    My biggest expectation became the progress on todo list for alpha at each month newsletter.

    Month after month, I was hoping that an item would move to completion...
    But what I was experiencing was slower and slower progress, many more steps backward, always for a good technical reason probably, but still.

    Luckylly, I started building my own house and time went pretty fast while I was working 247 :) on it.
    Still, I was expecting some progress or at least some content to watch every thursday.
    Frustration was also fueled by the fact that some content was reserved to VIP, when these guys already had a priviledged access to pre alpha server...

    And I guess, you, VR guys don't realize how much frustration you manage to create for us. And when I say us, I mean the 8000 poor idiots who gave you 250$, 8 years ago, expecting, every month, a pre alpha date to come closer.

    I thought we were back on track when Cohh jumped into the adventure. He had to know things we didn't... For sure, he knew something.
    And then, before summer, newsletter's format changed, and it was obviously to mask the lack of overall progress.
    Or more accurately, the fact that alpha was no more a reachable target in a reasonnable amount of time.
    And then, the desastrous 247 announce...

    You could argue that, as an adult, I should be able to manage both my expectations and frustration. And it's probably true.
    Though EQNext already took a huge chunk in this domain.

    But I honestly believe that you are responsible for this situation.
    Being in Pre Alpha for 6 years doesn't make any sense.
    You have 8000 fans queuing and hoping for ANY improvment.
    You have 8000 fans who are desperate to take their first breath from Terminus.

    And you dare to complain because VIPs do not log in any more ?
    How many pair of glasses do you need to realize that you have 8000 testers that are desperate to do what VIPs don't have will or time to perform on your behalf ?

    It's time to turn our frustration into something positive. Start thinking wisely before it's too late

    Friendly - Emlar
    • 26 posts
    October 30, 2023 2:47 PM PDT

    Hey Emlar.

    Many of us agree that early access alpha would be better than 247. Some of us would even to agree to monthly fee if there is improvement each month.

    But ... I just wrote to hope the new house turned out OK.

     

    • 252 posts
    October 30, 2023 3:01 PM PDT
    Inselberg said:

    Hey Emlar.



    Many of us agree that early access alpha would be better than 247. Some of us would even to agree to monthly fee if there is improvement each month.



    But ... I just wrote to hope the new house turned out OK.







    They cannot ask for monthly fees for alpha access after stringing Champion pledges along for years. If people want to give them an extra 5-10 a month they already have a subscription package for you. It won't get you alpha if you're not a Champion but I can't see them snubbing champions by opening alpha access up to a sub.
    This post was edited by Ruinar at October 30, 2023 3:02 PM PDT
    • 26 posts
    October 30, 2023 4:29 PM PDT

    "It won't get you alpha if you're not a Champion but I can't see them snubbing champions by opening alpha access up to a sub."

    I can't see Champions preferring the game die rather than share. But you may be right.

     

    • 252 posts
    October 30, 2023 5:02 PM PDT
    Inselberg said:

    "It won't get you alpha if you're not a Champion but I can't see them snubbing champions by opening alpha access up to a sub."



    I can't see Champions preferring the game die rather than share. But you may be right.







    That's pretty self righteous of you. Classic "if you don't agree then people will die" argument. I don't accept your premise that the only way to complete this game is to turn their back on their promises.
    This post was edited by Ruinar at October 30, 2023 5:02 PM PDT
    • 47 posts
    October 30, 2023 9:50 PM PDT
    Inselberg said:

    "It won't get you alpha if you're not a Champion but I can't see them snubbing champions by opening alpha access up to a sub."



    I can't see Champions preferring the game die rather than share. But you may be right.



    I won't be that dramatic, but I feel we are at a turn.
    Chris Joppa's voice and hesitations during 247 public Q&A told us much more about the tension that's currently traversing VR.
    We (alpha pledgers) are not fanatic worshipers. Our ability to wait cannot extend forever.

    Around 00:24:10, Chris mentioned the ability for Alpha players to keep their 247 access. And later on, he mentioned that 247 would be opened at beta players at some point.
    It's a bit disapoinging (to say the least) that he can no longer make the difference between pre-alpha and alpha.
    But I'd like to keep the optimistic side of his quote : They are still thinking at letting us (alpha pledgers) and beta players access the game.

    Last point : It took me a while to realize how much additional frustration was generated when they emphasize, years after years, the need to pledge another 500$ if we (alpha pledgers) were so desperate to join the testing. First, it was really poor communication. Second, it was really setting in stone this entry barrier. It was no more a matter of faith in their ability to deliver, it became a money issue. Are you rich enough to join the club or not ?

    Guys ! You may have to remember that 750$ is probably what most players spend over 6 years of ACTUAL GAMEPLAY !!
    Why in hell, would we spend another 1$ after 8 or 10 years of pledging in the dark ?
    Not to mention the interest rate that our 250$ should have generated over 10 years.

    Back to my first point : This is the moment where faith has to be transformed into something more tangible.
    If you can't acheive this turn, some will probably turn their back to VR's dream, which, ultimately was also our dream.
    This post was edited by Emlar at October 30, 2023 9:57 PM PDT
    • 47 posts
    October 30, 2023 9:53 PM PDT
    Ruinar said:
    Inselberg said: Hey Emlar. Many of us agree that early access alpha would be better than 247. Some of us would even to agree to monthly fee if there is improvement each month. But ... I just wrote to hope the new house turned out OK.
    They cannot ask for monthly fees for alpha access after stringing Champion pledges along for years. If people want to give them an extra 5-10 a month they already have a subscription package for you. It won't get you alpha if you're not a Champion but I can't see them snubbing champions by opening alpha access up to a sub.
    Valid point. Though, and despite what I claimed in my previous post, I would be tempted to access pre-alpha on an additional sub fee. But I guess it's the cost to maintain my faith alive. frown
    This post was edited by Emlar at October 30, 2023 9:54 PM PDT
    • 4 posts
    October 31, 2023 1:19 PM PDT
    Pledged Advisor 8 years ago, my patience is all but gone. I understood I wasn't signing up for Pre-alpha but I also didn't think 8 years later it would still be pre-alpha... When 24/7 was announced all my faith in Pantheon went out the window. I didn't pledge to help make a "battle royale" type MMO, and while I understand it is meant as a avenue for more funds for development, poor choice. I'd gladly start up my early access to play (or test) the game, I'd even pay a Monthly sub if it helps development along. Don't pull a Curt Schilling on us.
    • 18 posts
    November 11, 2023 8:40 AM PST
    I want my money back. This feel like fraud. I'm done with this game.