I would definitely be ok with them dropping a few classes and content areas. But if they launch without certain content then we should not be able to access those areas at all till they are finished. It would really ruin the immersion to find an area with little or nothing in it.
I would also be ok if they level capped at like 20th for now while they worked on later levels. With a big caveat. I want some kind of AA system. I hate with a passion any kind of daily or weekly quest or faction grind that requires me to do the same dumb quest over and over. At least with the AA system I could do whatever content I wanted to over and over or mix it up. Do dungeon A one day and dungeon B the next. That's what I loved about Everquest's AA system. It provided a system of continuous content without actually adding new content. That one mechanic massively expanded the content of the game.
I would think dropping the classes that have pets alone would save them a lot of time. Not only would they not have to create and balance those classes until a later expansion but they would save themselves the programming of pets entirely for now.
I would, however, feel like if they had to launch with limited content that they should at least give us the first expansion for free.
You have to remember this is pre-alpha. I would expect a lot more when we hit alpha, but until then, I would expect just enough to get the main bugs out and figures for their number crunchers.
Capped levels and sub standard or incomplete zones will not cut it for release. Ever. There is really no point in an incomplete game hitting the market. It will get some traction then it will be empty after a couple of months. It might have worked for NMS, but I doubt it will here.
IMO: an incomplete game is fine for pre-alpha. Most classes and a zone should be ready for alpha. Most zones and content should be nearing completion for beta.
Mornroc said:I would definitely be ok with them dropping a few classes and content areas.
I would think dropping the classes that have pets alone would save them a lot of time.
And what if VR decided to drop the class(es) you wanted to play? Or dropped the race/class combo you really wanted to play? Would you 'definitely be ok' with it? Would you pay for it?
Everyone is fine with things being left out so long is it doesn't impact them.
Vandraad said:Mornroc said:I would definitely be ok with them dropping a few classes and content areas.
I would think dropping the classes that have pets alone would save them a lot of time.
And what if VR decided to drop the class(es) you wanted to play? Or dropped the race/class combo you really wanted to play? Would you 'definitely be ok' with it? Would you pay for it?
Everyone is fine with things being left out so long is it doesn't impact them.
I'm already in that boat. I wanted to play a Necromancer, which got nixed a long time ago. But yeah I hear you... But I'd rather have to wait for a class than wait for the whole game. I am of the opinion that if Pantheon doesn't launch very soon then it's going to die. Funding opportunities are getting harder and harder (pledging is probably dead, and what venture capital wants to invest in a game that's been in development for 10 years), enthusiasm for the game has waned big time (this forum is a ghost of it's former self), big sacrifices are already being made (the art). I really get the impression that it's do or die time for Pantheon.
In the end, at least speaking for myself, it's not a specific class that will get me paying and playing. It's the style and spirit of a game like EQ1. Is the game like that yet? I really don't know. I didn't get enough of a feel to say that conclusively during the pre-alpha alpha test. I feel like it's not quite there yet. Maybe trimming a few things will give them the time to get over that finish line. Maybe I'm wrong.
Mornroc said:Maybe trimming a few things will give them the time to get over that finish line. Maybe I'm wrong.
You might not be wrong, but (and I speak only for myself here) the more you trim the more likely you are to shrink your potential playerbase. Cut one thing, lose some players. Cut another thing, lost some more players. Trim it too far and you have but a ghost of a game and a tiny playerbase too small to support it.
Vandraad said:the more you trim the more likely you are to shrink your potential playerbase. Cut one thing, lose some players. Cut another thing, lost some more players. Trim it too far and you have but a ghost of a game and a tiny playerbase too small to support it.
The same can be said with all decisions they make sadly. If you spread content thin over a large area you lose some players. If you pool it into a core area you lose some players.
Even stuff like the art change losing some players but improving performance and lowering the time to create kept different players.
Yeah Vandraad I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. The new art style is abominable, the new animations terrible. I'm already turned off, and there's not even swimming yet let alone a Dark Myr zone..the race I wanted to play as. So where's the downside again for cutting the scope of the game? Already there for me lol. Things are going to need to be cut beyond what I have already lost if this game is gonna make it to early access on Steam.
Ziegfried said:Yeah Vandraad I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. The new art style is abominable, the new animations terrible. I'm already turned off, and there's not even swimming yet let alone a Dark Myr zone..the race I wanted to play as. So where's the downside again for cutting the scope of the game? Already there for me lol. Things are going to need to be cut beyond what I have already lost if this game is gonna make it to early access on Steam.
I just don't subscribe to this point of view. I think it will ship with all release stated classes and levels. Not sure on all continents yet, though. I just think it will take more time is all (yes I know how long it has been in development; I have been here since almost the start!). I just think you are confusing pre-alpha with a product that can be released. They are not the same beast. I just dont agree that they need to make cuts.
I hated the art work when first shown. I am, at best, ambivalent to them now and you are right, this does affect engagement. However, when I played, I decided to give it an open mind and, tbh, after a few mins play, they didnt bother me one way or the other. I did find myself looking at the scenery too, so it is not all bad.
chenzeme said:
I just don't subscribe to this point of view.
I hated the art work when first shown. I am, at best, ambivalent to them now and you are right, this does affect engagement. However, when I played, I decided to give it an open mind and, tbh, after a few mins play, they didnt bother me one way or the other. I did find myself looking at the scenery too, so it is not all bad.
I'm the opposite. I specifically remember noticing how bad the scenery was when I wasn't trying to notice the scenery. It (for me) was a distraction. It just looked so bad that it added to a disliked of the game during my time in the game. Hopefully improvement are made.
In todays gaming landscape, I can name a dozen game just a couple years old, where when I play them I do notice and think to myself. Wow, that's really pretty. Not once, anywhere in this game did I run across a space, stopped and thought to myself...wow.
chenzeme said:I just don't subscribe to this point of view. I think it will ship with all release stated classes and levels. Not sure on all continents yet, though.
Lets assume that, for the sake of argument, that the game ships with only Kingsreach because (so far as we know) that is the only continent that has had any zones built. So the Humans, Halflings and Elves get their home cities. But what of the other 6 races? Where do they start? The high-fantasy version of a mobile home park? Where on Kingsreach would these temp starting hovels be located? Those races that would be KOS to those 3 races then have to deal with only 1 'safe' space? Then what happens when Reignfall and Whitethaw are created and those 6 races now have home cities?
It would be very bad to release the game where 6 races start off as second class citizens, penalized (quite unfairly) only because VR decided to start building the world with the easy, sellable, races of Human, Halfling and Elf.
Vandraad said:chenzeme said:I just don't subscribe to this point of view. I think it will ship with all release stated classes and levels. Not sure on all continents yet, though.
Lets assume that, for the sake of argument, that the game ships with only Kingsreach because (so far as we know) that is the only continent that has had any zones built. So the Humans, Halflings and Elves get their home cities. But what of the other 6 races? Where do they start? The high-fantasy version of a mobile home park? Where on Kingsreach would these temp starting hovels be located? Those races that would be KOS to those 3 races then have to deal with only 1 'safe' space? Then what happens when Reignfall and Whitethaw are created and those 6 races now have home cities?
It would be very bad to release the game where 6 races start off as second class citizens, penalized (quite unfairly) only because VR decided to start building the world with the easy, sellable, races of Human, Halfling and Elf.
I don't disagree with you in the slightest. What I was saying is that I cannot see it shipped with sub 50 levels or less classes. I could see it shipped with one continent though. Would I want that? A definite, NO, and I agree on your reasons why. I am not saying it should at all.
In my view, anything other than a complete game as the original description of Pantheon would be a fail and (in your words) "very bad to release".