Mang. I'm patient, like super stoic. I just ended up playing a beta of a game that I won't post cause it is not the intent to do that sort of thing but mang..friends. My people playing games is the heart of our souls, and it takes me back to another time or memory with friends and even the new memories of genuinely having some fun.
I know Pantheon is on its way. Yet, after these few hours of gameplay, I'm left with that itch.
I Need this to happen soon.
There is so much malarky in the universe that I want to see the world of the Pantheon.
I'm still holding on!! Please allow us some game time soon. I've been waiting since 2016.. to think it's 2023 now is hard to type out!
Your YouTube feeds and recent updates have been the most significant lifeline on your campaign to Alpha; thanks for that and everything your team does!
ScuryLives said:I've been waiting since 2016.. to think it's 2023 now is hard to type out!
Only since 2016? pfffff.
:)
Ha! Vandraad has been waiting since 1620! No, but I don't know how others are holding up. I'm miserable sometimes but just focusing on other things. As I'm not gaming much anymore I'm getting a lot of work done around the house. Racking up wife points for Pantheon release so I can spend them on a couple weeks in-game. I mean .. of gaming. ...I think.
ScuryLives said:Hegenox said:I dont mind waiting at all if it will be rewarded with high quality game, there is plenty to do in the meantime!
The community will surely get that. The amount of progress shown as of late is exceptional.
You should care. The longer a game takes to develop (as history has shown) the less likely it will be "high quality". You will be hard pressed to find a game with a 10 year dev cycle that was successful on release. Even if you do, it would be a anomly in the sea of failures. A simple understanding of development cycles and technology would surely lead you to this conclusion. Scope creep is real and it has ruined many a games. Typically games that go past 4 to 5 year mark are rebuilding from the gound up. New world got hammered by the community for taking 6 years and they changed direction and scope several times from a survival game to a survival mmo to a traditional MMO.
In all the research I care to do, Star Citzen has been in the development the longest followed by this game for an MMO (yes many other non-mmo games went longer, make sure you look to see how well they did on release). Star Citizen, however, is up and you can go play it right now.
I have spent more time on these forums than I have on more than one game that I bought. Whenever I think of the timing I tell myself that I have gotten my money's worth already. That helps a bit though like everyone else I am less than completely patient.
Becoda is correct - the longer a game takes in development the more risk the core programs are outdated at best and no longer supported at worst. Only a large and well funded team can do all of their own programming and frequent updating to stay current.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. VR should focus on doing all that they can to get the game released as soon as possible but also in good enough shape to make it successful. Both are essential. Wonderful ideas that will delay progress and that aren't necessary to make it "good enough to succeed" should be saved for post-release.
Becoda said:You should care. The longer a game takes to develop (as history has shown) the less likely it will be "high quality". You will be hard pressed to find a game with a 10 year dev cycle that was successful on release.
Games with long development times:
Elder Scrolls Online (7 years)
Darkfall Online (8 years)
Spore (8 years)
The Last Guardian (9 years)
Too Human (9 years)
Team Fortress 2 (9 years)
Final Fantasy XV (10 years)
Prey (11 years)
Diablo III (11 years)
Duke Nukem Forever (15 years)
I feel your pain, and we all know the team is very eager to get it done. On the subject of discomforting anticipation, I like to think of it like having children, you don't really see any return on investment until, like, they reach their late 20's
Before that it's just a mess and frustration, with bewilderment and fear. And the cost all that time, I must have gone through 83 hose sprayer nozzles, every day before they are allowed inside, you have to spray all the dirt off the little buggers. Year after year after years OMG. But when they finally do move out, what a joy.
I dont know man, I paid $300 to get to play Alpha about 3 years ago and this is still working through Pre Alpha for the last what 5+ years. Just got to play almost 12 hours of a stress test for a new EQ clone that looks to be amazing. Sometimes I think Pantheon is trying to be too good and perfectionists and adding more delays. If that game comes out you can have my $300 as I am not waiting till 2025 to play live
Jothany said:Becoda said:You should care. The longer a game takes to develop (as history has shown) the less likely it will be "high quality". You will be hard pressed to find a game with a 10 year dev cycle that was successful on release.
Games with long development times:
Elder Scrolls Online (7 years)
Darkfall Online (8 years)
Spore (8 years)
The Last Guardian (9 years)
Too Human (9 years)
Team Fortress 2 (9 years)
Final Fantasy XV (10 years)
Prey (11 years)
Diablo III (11 years)
Duke Nukem Forever (15 years)
Spore (8 years)
The Last Guardian (9 years)
Too Human (9 years)
Team Fortress 2 (9 years)
Prey (11 years)
Diablo III (11 years)
Duke Nukem Forever (15 years)
None of those are MMOs which makes their long development cycle even worse, really, as there is less 'stuff' in them. The better question would be how many released MMOs had >10 year development cycle and were successful*.
*the question of 'successful' is up for debate. But if an MMO lasts >5 years I'd declare it mostly successful but >10 years highly successful.
Vandraad said:Spore (8 years)
The Last Guardian (9 years)
Too Human (9 years)
Team Fortress 2 (9 years)
Prey (11 years)
Diablo III (11 years)
Duke Nukem Forever (15 years)None of those are MMOs which makes their long development cycle even worse, really, as there is less 'stuff' in them. The better question would be how many released MMOs had >10 year development cycle and were successful*.
*the question of 'successful' is up for debate. But if an MMO lasts >5 years I'd declare it mostly successful but >10 years highly successful.
My post was in response to the implication that Pantheon is unlikely to be successful (or of high quality) because "The longer a game takes to develop (as history has shown) the less likely it will be "high quality". You will be hard pressed to find a game with a 10 year dev cycle that was successful on release."
Unless you wish to make and defend the claim that none of the games I listed were of high quality - or that none were successful - then you have failed to rebut my comment. So far, you have not done that.
Becoda themself addressed both MMOs and other games in supporting their argument. It was therefore perfectly reasonable to include such in my response.
Nice straw-man argument though :)
We are where we are. Neither supporters nor VR can change the past. All that can be affected is how long future development takes and the quality of the final product.
I think it is fair to say that too slow a development process will result in a crappy product unless VR starts all over again to replace 2023 and earlier systems and graphics with 2030 improvements. May all Gods grant that this not become necessary.
I think it is equally fair to say that too fast a rush to release will also result in a crappy product for obvious reasons.
I view the risk of excess slowness as higher than the risk of excess speed. I am not sure that VR truly grasps the concept that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
But, with certainty, a too fast Vanguard type release is not necessarily better than a too slow release.
I also think that hardware and software advancement pace has slowed.
Just look at the difference in EQ1 vs EQ2, WoW SWG in graphics and computation abilites in just 4-5 short years. So a longer development cycle in todays world won't have as negative effect as one 10-15 years ago.
There are plenty of things that make a great game that have almost nothing to do with technology requirements. That's what VR should be aiming for if they are hoping to make a game that players live in for 10 or more years. The graphics will be considered outdated by many, but what makes the world great might not be the graphics. I'm not saying they shouldn't make a game with great graphics :)
I'm sure VR is aware of patience wearing thin. Though we have to admit that development has been becomming exponentially faster ever since tech upgrades, new hires, and cash infusion. I have my fingers crossed that alpha will be announced by the end of this year or next. I know thats still not very soon, but I'm trying to maintain a balance of hopefullness and realisticness.
Not a pessimist, but if Alpha waits until 2025 I don’t see how the game has a realistic hope of succeeding. An imperfect but playable Alpha would draw more players that complainers. I, like most of us are just waiting, but from looking at the numbers of You Tube views over the years for instance, those waiting seem to be diminishing.
I'm not sure what folks mean by outdated systems and graphics. What spcific system, that we know about, will be outdated if Pantheon releases in 2 years or more? Moreover, the final graphics have not been shown publicly and will be done closer to Alpha/Launch. If the Alpha Pantheon release looks comparable to Quinfall(An MMO using the Unity Engine), can folks honestly say it will look 'dated'? Folks thinking that it will look closer to what it is now and not take into account we are still seeing very old assests and animations are not being realistic or fair, imo. Even now there are 'some' screenshots that show promise and give a glimpse into what the game will look like when VR makes graphics and polish a priority.
Yes, it may not look like the latest Unreal release at the time, but it will still be a beautiful looking game.
Maybe I'm missing something...
I personally have no reservations about how it's going to look or feel, regardless of dev time. Sure it's not going to have cutting edge visuals, but I already like what I see in it's current iteration that I'm not worried about what it's going to look like upon release. I feel it will look very pretty even if it doesn't require the latest gen graphics card to run the game at max settings.
I loved Dark Souls 1 & 3 worldbuilding and overall graphics/models along with ESO, FF14, Zelda BOTW, so i guess thats my bar and I feel like Pantheon will look better than those games. Maaayybe not as good combat animations as that of a Dark Soul game but...I'm rambling again...
"I'm not sure what folks mean by outdated systems and graphics. What spcific system, that we know about, will be outdated if Pantheon releases in 2 years or more? "
Looking into the future is not something that can be done with certainty - or even that much confidence. The odds are there will be significant developments over any multi-year period. To know just what I would need to consult a medium. Hmmmm. Well if I paid well enough that would assure that I had finally reached the happy medium.