Hello Visionary Realms Staff and Community Members. It's been quite awhile since my last post but with the rapid progress being made towards alpha I thought it would be a good time to bring something up.
I know Kilsin in the past has said "We will be delivering Pantheon to the Windows platform”, and “Linux is not currently planned for release”. Has the stance on this changed at all in the last 4 years? There are a lot of people using Linux now days, and when searching the Pantheon forums I have found several people who are also hoping for a Linux release.
I know launching on multiple platforms is not easy, but with the new round of funding you got a while back and the fresh wave of testers you’ll get when moving from pre-alpha to alpha now is a perfect time.
From speaking with our Tech team a while ago for the same question asked on a different platform, I was told that DX11 is our choice as it is the most stable currently and we have no plans to support Vulcan as we're a Windows-based game.
If anything changes we will let you all know though.
Jobeson said:Linux users will make just about anything work, but locking the game to directx makes it much harder to pull off smoothly. Unities HDRP natively supports Vulkan, but that doesn't mean Pantheon will. Any one have a magic 8ball to see if Vulkan support is likely?
What about using DXVK?
Kilsin said:From speaking with our Tech team a while ago for the same question asked on a different platform, I was told that DX11 is our choice as it is the most stable currently and we have no plans to support Vulcan as we're a Windows-based game.
I just want to point out that Vulkan is platform agnostic, it is not exclusive to Linux. I don't mean to suggest that VR should switch to Vulkan now for the prospect of a Linux client, we've already seen enough refactors of this game.
Wyatt said:What about using DXVK?
DXVK is a godsend, but it's still not perfect. However, it seems to have pretty good compatibility with most Unity games I've used it with, so here's hoping Pantheon will be the same.. just please don't use EAC, if only for the sake of us Linux users that do want to tinker with getting the game to run.
Kilsin said:and we have no plans to support Vulcan as we're a Windows-based game.
Please reconsider it again. :) Vulcan is WAY faster than DirectX 11. I get 30 - 40% more fps in Final Fantasy 14 with DXVK. And DXVK is an API wrapper, which has itself a huge overhead.
Cheers
BeaverBiscuit said:Dumb question I know but is there some reason that windows clone versions of linux, like Linuxfx or Mint Cinammon, won't be able to play it?
The "Windows clones" are really just Desktop Environments made to look like Windows- it is only an aesthetic. They use WINE to run windows programs, which is available on any other Linux distribution. Linuxfx just comes with WINE installed and configured out of the box, while most other distros will require you to install and do some configuration yourself. WINE is only a compatibility layer that allows Unix-based systems to translate Windows API calls into something they can run. It's often very buggy, and at least for games is not as performant as a native build.
There is also Proton now, which is Valve's fork of WINE for Steam for Linux and SteamOS. SteamOS today, as it runs on the Steam Deck, is essentially just Arch Linux + Proton. Valve has done a lot for WINE on Linux, but it still has a ways to go.
Hey, here is an interesting video about gaming with Linux:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Up-qh0dQR8
Cheers
That's a pretty optimistic video. I can tell neither of them have really used Linux before, at least not for any extensive period of time.
Switching to Linux is not that easy if you're someone who doesn't know/doesn't like troubleshooting. Even the most user friendly distros will require some manner of troubleshooting knowledge. I'm also not that excited about Valve potentially dominating the gaming space on Linux, the same way they did digital distribution back in the early 00s. Let's not forget it was Valve that pushed, "Digital distribution is licensed software." They're not the saviors of PC gaming a lot of people think them to be.
I would encourage anyone to give it a try. Snap packages, app images, Steam/Proton, and Lutris have made it much easier to get into Linux and get to playing games without much difficulty. Don't expect it to be a 1:1 conversion, you will have to change software and adapt your workflows. The advantage to Linux there is that it is near infinitely customizable, so if there is something that doesn't work the way you want it to, it's not much of an issue to get it working how you want it.
Wyatt said:There are a lot of people using Linux now days, and when searching the Pantheon forums I have found several people who are also hoping for a Linux release.
I know launching on multiple platforms is not easy, but with the new round of funding you got a while back and the fresh wave of testers you’ll get when moving from pre-alpha to alpha now is a perfect time.
Honestly, there really aren't that many people using Linux worldwide. There are some sites that track global desktop OS usage and Linux is barely over 2%, whereas OS X is under 16% and windows is almost 76%. I realize that when you're a user of Linux it might seem like it makes total sense to support it, but from a return on investment standpoint it's rarely worth it to support OS X, much much less to support Linux. If Linux were to gain a meaningful user base, I'm sure engine writers (Unity/Unreal) would actually put more resources into it and you'd see more Linux games.
EDIT: When I'm talking engine writers putting resources into it, for a game dev to support it, It needs to be a no-brainer meaning you select the Linux build target and you're done. I do know you can run UE4 servers at least because I've targetted those for dedicated servers. I honestly don't know about Unity's linux support. It seems like they may have editor support but I've never tried to make a linux build.
EDIT2: Actually a pretty good set of games "work-ish" on Proton. Not bad. https://www.protondb.com/explore
jimmay said:Wyatt said:There are a lot of people using Linux now days, and when searching the Pantheon forums I have found several people who are also hoping for a Linux release.
I know launching on multiple platforms is not easy, but with the new round of funding you got a while back and the fresh wave of testers you’ll get when moving from pre-alpha to alpha now is a perfect time.
Honestly, there really aren't that many people using Linux worldwide. There are some sites that track global desktop OS usage and Linux is barely over 2%, whereas OS X is under 16% and windows is almost 76%. I realize that when you're a user of Linux it might seem like it makes total sense to support it, but from a return on investment standpoint it's rarely worth it to support OS X, much much less to support Linux. If Linux were to gain a meaningful user base, I'm sure engine writers (Unity/Unreal) would actually put more resources into it and you'd see more Linux games.
EDIT: When I'm talking engine writers putting resources into it, for a game dev to support it, It needs to be a no-brainer meaning you select the Linux build target and you're done. I do know you can run UE4 servers at least because I've targetted those for dedicated servers. I honestly don't know about Unity's linux support. It seems like they may have editor support but I've never tried to make a linux build.
EDIT2: Actually a pretty good set of games "work-ish" on Proton. Not bad. https://www.protondb.com/explore
yea.. tried linux myself ..
that OS is crazy .. starring at the screen with bunch of codes lol ...... only crazy nerd would push hard onto people using that
i cant even install an app normally , macOS is the only way to go if people hate microsoft and dont want to play their favourite games on windows
Wyatt said:Hello Visionary Realms Staff and Community Members. It's been quite awhile since my last post but with the rapid progress being made towards alpha I thought it would be a good time to bring something up.
I know Kilsin in the past has said "We will be delivering Pantheon to the Windows platform”, and “Linux is not currently planned for release”. Has the stance on this changed at all in the last 4 years? There are a lot of people using Linux now days, and when searching the Pantheon forums I have found several people who are also hoping for a Linux release.
I know launching on multiple platforms is not easy, but with the new round of funding you got a while back and the fresh wave of testers you’ll get when moving from pre-alpha to alpha now is a perfect time.
I will beg borrow and steal any and all work arounds to get Pantheon to work on my Linux box. I switched around 8 months ago and will never look back. The linux base is slowly climbing and gaining popularity and will continue to grow with the realease of the Steam Deck. More people will see how well it runs become curious and start to migrate.
jimmay said:Honestly, there really aren't that many people using Linux worldwide. There are some sites that track global desktop OS usage and Linux is barely over 2%, whereas OS X is under 16% and windows is almost 76%. I realize that when you're a user of Linux it might seem like it makes total sense to support it, but from a return on investment standpoint it's rarely worth it to support OS X, much much less to support Linux. If Linux were to gain a meaningful user base, I'm sure engine writers (Unity/Unreal) would actually put more resources into it and you'd see more Linux games.
EDIT: When I'm talking engine writers putting resources into it, for a game dev to support it, It needs to be a no-brainer meaning you select the Linux build target and you're done. I do know you can run UE4 servers at least because I've targetted those for dedicated servers. I honestly don't know about Unity's linux support. It seems like they may have editor support but I've never tried to make a linux build.
EDIT2: Actually a pretty good set of games "work-ish" on Proton. Not bad. https://www.protondb.com/explore
Depending on how well the Steam Deck takes off (it's looking to be a massive hit) there might be an influx of Linux gamers.
I doubt the Steam Deck has any influence on it. Most people buying them would not even know anything more than how to use it, they don't care about specs, infrastructure, etc.
To most it's just another handheld gaming aparatus like Nintendo Switch or something. And not all games will be playable on the Steam Deck, my guess is it will be games that are more adept at controller based play, not so much keyboard mouse gaming.
Add that the average person isn't going to be able to install linux without some major inprovments in instaltion and configuration. Most peope I know can't even do a fresh windows install on a empty drive.
If Pantheon releases on Steam, then it will be supported out of the box by Proton.
Proton is a translator from DirectX to Vulkan, which does not need the developers to do anything other than publishing on Steam. This is probably the best way of Linux support in this case, as it does not cost anything other than the cut of the profits that Valve takes from purchases made on Steam.
With Steam, recognisability also comes, so the lesser profit per individual sale is most often easily offset by the number of additional sales due to the extra visibility and security that Steam provides. Many users only purchase via Steam, as they consider it a comfortable platform to accumulate their games on, whereas the others consider Steam safe as their servers are another layer of security when downloading files.
That said, I personally hope Visionary Realms decides to include their game on Steam with an optional account link from their webpage to connect Steam account and share character data between standalone & Steam platform.
Steam Deck currently supports many things and it certainly improved the visibility of Linux as a secure, no-nonsense gaming platform.
I'm following this one. Linux gaming has made tremendous strides in the past couple years, largely due to Valve's Steam Deck and their support of Proton. I'm personally moving away from Windows when Windows 10 is no longer supported for normal users (2025) so I really hope Pantheon will either support Linux or at least not do anything to prevent Proton/Wine from working well.
I just wanted to report that Pantheon is working fine on Linux for me today. Graphics performance and sound are exactly as on Windows. I'm using the new launcher, with Pantheon 0.13.288. I used Lutris to run it, but the procedure should be the standard one for starting it via Steam or however else you like: set up the entry pointing to the installer first, and after install, change it to PantheonLauncher.exe. I'm not using experimental Wine or anything, just version 8.0.2. AMD CPU and graphics.
Of course, it would be fantastic to have native Linux support, but I hope at least nothing weird is done that breaks the current level of support.
