The thread " My thoughts on "daily" content " got me to thinking about this (watering/planting crops as a daily)
Has it ever been considered as say an extension of Crafting and Housing to have a Farmville type mechanic (without the money grab of course). This isn't something I would be interested in (no to boring dailies btw.. I don't want to do something more than once or twice), not likely a lot of us would I expect, but apparently "8 Million People Play Zynga's FarmVille 2 Every Day" do like this kind of thing, (including my wife not an avid MMORPG player but she will get my second account just the same) would like this a lot, Farmville where you could actually be in the 3D world and socialize. This would be something she would love. She likes peaceful, not raids, not killing stuff (unless they had the seeds she needed to grow tomatoes) or she needed to kill wolves to rescue a sheep for her farm or to protect her sheep or cows on her farm.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been in several guilds that had a casual "grandma" player that just liked to dabble around fishing, gathering and being social that would love to have a Farm to tend.
I would think the benefits of this to Pantheon would be
And no I don't think VR should hold up beta to add something like this, but if launch goes well and the finances are there, they could bring in a team to work this angle.
What think you all... Good idea? Bad idea? Would never work? Go back to bed Zork you have to work in the morning!
I suspect you've answered your own question... perhaps I've misunderstood, but I've never viewed Pantheon as a game that's trying to cater to all tastes and gamer types. For a feature that likely 80%+ of their core audience wouldn't be interested in, it would be hard to justify any resource expenditure to design, implement, and maintain that sort of 'mini game'. Sure, have aspects of it perhaps, but once it starts to have benefits to other aspects of the game, but is time consuming, it will start to be seen as a chore by parts ot the community that they have to do because of the result, rather than as something fun.
I assume Tradeskills will play the overall role of "Farmville" type mechanics in Pantheon. And they are shooting for hardcore, so I don't imagine they will somehow NOT be compelling...
And what is this nonsense about Fishing? Dabble? One does not simply dabble in Fishing.
You know what would be sweet though? Permaculture nodes for agriculture settlements, and berry farms to support my Pie empire...
Check out Brad's recent blog on Sandbox v. Themepark. I think it speaks somewhat to the opening post. https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/blogs/151/181/sandbox-vs-themepark
Im with Landbert on this one. As well as Gnog. Brad's post definitely kinda talks about it. And adds the fact of the possibilities the game could have after it has been launched.
But I did love ArcheAge's farmville like feature. It was something rather unique that I hadn't experienced before. As well as the trade runs. Although, the trade runs kinda became my only gameplay for a bit and was super annoying because you farmed soo much for so little. I hope Pantheon can find it's own version of this without being anything like ArcheAge. ArcheAge died for me because of the ridiculous RNG involved with crafting gear, and the expensive amount of time you spent farming gold and using it just for a .0000001% chance for a really nice piece of gear. 1 person could farm 200 armor pieces worth of materials and still not get the piece they want, where another person could farm like maybe 10 times and accidently get it. Plus the whole P2W aspect of the game sucked. It might have been better if it was just purely subscription based.
I liked the idea of owning land though, and working with your own community, guild, and family members to achieve goals. It really did bring a partial community thing together. The PVP and P2W part killed it real quick though. Especially when your own faction could purple up where ever and when ever and murder you. I can say for sure though, if Pantheon adds something like this, but fits more Pantheon's style than a replica of ArcheAge, I will probably never leave my computer.
I don't know why I like the idea of the farming thing, but I think it's pretty neat and I enjoy it a ton! It most likely won't happen at release, and that's totally okay. But if there's even an IDEA in Brad's mind about this being added to the game later on, and he can share some of his thoughts here - then that would be amazing!
DuckofDeath said:No joke I would love to be a chicken farmer. Raise little chickens then take them to market or sell them as food to player cooks or as pets to other players.
Be cool if titles were tied to different farm styles, I could be known as Chicken Chaser.
I know that if you could have a farm raising pheasants you would be a Pheasant Plucker.
Maybe this can be included in housing if/when it gets put in. I woun't mind growing herbs plants for crafting, animals for skins, bone arrows. If they put in open world housing and not instancing then it would be cool to seee people tending to the farms.
Perhaps even an extension of crafting, say you find a rare seed and there is a Cultivation skill, not everyone can put a seed in the ground and make it grow or even have the knowledge of finding the seeds.Harvest rare plants or grow said rare plants.
DuckofDeath said:No joke I would love to be a chicken farmer. Raise little chickens then take them to market or sell them as food to player cooks or as pets to other players.
Be cool if titles were tied to different farm styles, I could be known as Chicken Chaser.
MMOs are, at their core, about risk vs reward. Where is your risk being a chicken farmer? You mention selling them to players. So your reward is money for zero risk at all, a fountain of infinite gold essentially Not unbalanced or harmful for the economy at all. If all you need to do is spend a few minutes a day chucking seeds on the ground then the reward should be a pathetically small as the effort put into earning it. You want more money, introduce more risk. Let me steal them when you're offline. Put your farm out in the middle of a zone full of wandering hostile mobs and let them aggro onto your chickens. Better yet, make you adventure out with other players deep into dungeons, killing NPCs like everyone else to obtain uncommon/rare No-Drop items that you then can craft into chicken feed..provided your chicken feed crafting skill is 200. Then you can make a bigger profit...or just stick with Farmville.
So essentially you're saying that being a farmer entails no risk. That would indeed be the case if planting, growing and harvesting was a guaranteed success. But what if it were dynamic? What if planting and growing was a "game" in and of it's own as harvesting and tradeskilling is? I am sure you can see the potential there? Not like you're saying "Let me steal them when you're offline. Put your farm out in the middle of a zone full of wandering hostile mobs and let them aggro onto your chickens" but with skills like seeding, cultivating and harvesting them. It takes all sorts of knowledge to do this right. Which means there are going to be many failures untill you're skilled enough for growing strawberries for instance is trivial. Can't do much with strawberries right? Is it like farmville? Perhaps.
Regardless. It's not for right now though, but perhaps later. Obviously after player housing.
And then yes, it should be hard, really hard but the reward should be there. Not in form of plat, but rather as ingredients or raw material for other trade skills. Harvesting of regular plants, trees, ore etc is going to be part of the game already. But harvesting of food etc, can only happen after someone grows it.
So while you can harvest low quality wild carrots, beets and berries, you might grow higher quality products on your own farm etc. meh... i can go on forever about the potential. It's cool for some and not for others.
MMOs are, at their core, about risk vs reward.
Gonna have to say, no. MMO's at their core can be anything as long as the persistent game world itself is the matchmaking service. Other than that really, an MMO can be a goat simulation with realistic grass growing mechanics.
There could defiantly be risk to whatever level the Devs wanted... let's stay with the chicken farm as an example...
To raise chickens you would need to feed them daily (replacement for daily quest) but what do you feed them? You need to grow corn or grain to make chicken feed. Like Farmville you plant and the corn doesn't just happen.(delayed crafting) you need to log in within the next few days to water your crop. You need to be on in a week to harvest and replant your crop. If not the crop dies, no crop, no grain, no grain, no feed, no feed, your chickens starve. Risk cam be more than a corpse run... it could be a loss of time or financial investment.
Delayed Crafting
I almost started another post on this thought but I'll add it here. Farmville had this delayed crafting. Why don't MMORPG's? I used to brew beer. Mash it all up, stick it in the carboy, add the yeast and watch it bubble for a month. In an mmo I do Grain+Bottle click a button and instant beer.. nope doesn't happen that way that's not how it works! Can anybody say instant gratification.
Why not Grain+Fermenter click the button and you have "fermenting beer" carry it arround in your bang or bank or set it on a shelf in your house or guild hall (actual reason for housing or guild halls) and in a month (game time) you have "fermented beer"
Fermented beer+ bottle+click and you now have 25 Heady Kiola
Vandraad said:DuckofDeath said:No joke I would love to be a chicken farmer. Raise little chickens then take them to market or sell them as food to player cooks or as pets to other players.
Be cool if titles were tied to different farm styles, I could be known as Chicken Chaser.
MMOs are, at their core, about risk vs reward. Where is your risk being a chicken farmer? You mention selling them to players. So your reward is money for zero risk at all, a fountain of infinite gold essentially Not unbalanced or harmful for the economy at all. If all you need to do is spend a few minutes a day chucking seeds on the ground then the reward should be a pathetically small as the effort put into earning it. You want more money, introduce more risk. Let me steal them when you're offline. Put your farm out in the middle of a zone full of wandering hostile mobs and let them aggro onto your chickens. Better yet, make you adventure out with other players deep into dungeons, killing NPCs like everyone else to obtain uncommon/rare No-Drop items that you then can craft into chicken feed..provided your chicken feed crafting skill is 200. Then you can make a bigger profit...or just stick with Farmville.
I read your post sevearal times, and to be honest I think you could have saved a lot of typing and just said "I don't like it so it shouldn't exist". There could easily be risk involved. I'm sure the folks at VR could make it risky in some pretty intersting ways. I am also sure they could could make it much more than "pathetically small" in terms of both effort and reward. I get it, you don't personally like the idear of farming which is totally kool, but you seem to demand others respect your opinion while denying anybody that disagrees with you the same.
Personally, I'm neutral about the whole thing. Like i said, i'm sure if implemented, VR could do some neat stuff with it. Oddly enough the idear of having other creatures roam onto your farm could be one of them.
Zorkon said:There could defiantly be risk to whatever level the Devs wanted... let's stay with the chicken farm as an example...
To raise chickens you would need to feed them daily (replacement for daily quest) but what do you feed them? You need to grow corn or grain to make chicken feed. Like Farmville you plant and the corn doesn't just happen.(delayed crafting) you need to log in within the next few days to water your crop. You need to be on in a week to harvest and replant your crop. If not the crop dies, no crop, no grain, no grain, no feed, no feed, your chickens starve. Risk cam be more than a corpse run... it could be a loss of time or financial investment.
Delayed Crafting
I almost started another post on this thought but I'll add it here. Farmville had this delayed crafting. Why don't MMORPG's? I used to brew beer. Mash it all up, stick it in the carboy, add the yeast and watch it bubble for a month. In an mmo I do Grain+Bottle click a button and instant beer.. nope doesn't happen that way that's not how it works! Can anybody say instant gratification.
Why not Grain+Fermenter click the button and you have "fermenting beer" carry it arround in your bang or bank or set it on a shelf in your house or guild hall (actual reason for housing or guild halls) and in a month (game time) you have "fermented beer"
Fermented beer+ bottle+click and you now have 25 Heady Kiola
Complex Brewing mechanics would be amazing.
ZennExile said:Complex Brewing mechanics would be amazing.
That's what I suppose I'm trying to suggest in this thread. Obviously not destroy Pantheon by making it a Farmville clone, and not just adding a farming skill. But taking what 80 million people in Farmville like (delayed crafting) and making it available in pantheon as opposed to dailies where your fighting half the server over the same dumb gnolls every day of the week for week after week.(I already know I WILL NOT do that) I will just let the rest of the server move past me and if content is blocked behind dailies I'll never see that content..... but I might raise a chicken or brew some Mead (3 mounths game time before botteling..+15AC good strong mead you don't feel nothing)
Visionary Realms can do SO much better than "kill 10 gnolls" sixty-five fricking times.
btw: what got me thinking about this besides the "dailies" thread was my wife just started brewing Komboocha.. I have been paying $2.50 a bottle for that gross junk that she loves... it's freaking fermented tea is all it is... 12 tea bags and 1.5 cups of sugar per gallon.. add in a "Scoby" and 7-10 days later she has a gallon of Komboocha. (Apparently it's called "Booch" in Komboocha brewer speak) and if it goes over 10 days she will have some great vinegar.
Yogurt and sourdough starter are also fermented, in their own particular way...
Sourdough bread is made by the fermentation of dough using naturally occurring lactobacilli and yeast.Sourdough bread has a mildly sour taste not present in most breads made with baker's yeast and better inherent keeping qualities than other breads, due to the lactic acid produced by the lactobacilli. (I love sourdough bread btw)
Yogurt: The bacteria convert the lactose (milk sugar) to lactic acid, which thickens the milkand gives it the tangy taste characteristic of yogurt. The yogurt is then cooled and can be flavoured with fruit, sugar, other sweeteners or flavourings. Stabilizers, such as gelatin, may also be added.
I haven't read this entire thread, but I agree with the OP and a few that I read at the beginning. It would be nice to have a number of mini-games for farming and trade runs, etc. without the RNG casino effect on itemization that some games have gotten into in these areas. I played EQ for years and I hated crafting in that game. But I played Horizons (now Istaria Online) and while that game had some bad, laggy combat, the gathering/crafting was actually fun and I logged in a lot just to craft stuff for my dragon character. Plus in EQ, there many people that played that would go out and adventure, but their real joy was cooking and tending house and they joined the rest of the guild just to get what they needed for that. My experience has been that those people were mostly house wives, but I'm sure that's not the only demographic. The point being that while it might not be something to expect for launch, it doesn't hurt to give people things to do between raids and hunting mobs and there is an audience that loves to contribute to the hardcore raiders by providing all that Hit Point food from the garden and stamina drinks from the cooking pot.
DragonFist said:I haven't read this entire thread, but I agree with the OP and a few that I read at the beginning. It would be nice to have a number of mini-games for farming and trade runs, etc. without the RNG casino effect on itemization that some games have gotten into in these areas. I played EQ for years and I hated crafting in that game. But I played Horizons (now Istaria Online) and while that game had some bad, laggy combat, the gathering/crafting was actually fun and I logged in a lot just to craft stuff for my dragon character. Plus in EQ, there many people that played that would go out and adventure, but their real joy was cooking and tending house and they joined the rest of the guild just to get what they needed for that. My experience has been that those people were mostly house wives, but I'm sure that's not the only demographic. The point being that while it might not be something to expect for launch, it doesn't hurt to give people things to do between raids and hunting mobs and there is an audience that loves to contribute to the hardcore raiders by providing all that Hit Point food from the garden and stamina drinks from the cooking pot.
Absolutely DragonFist, I love to help my guild with gathering, cooking..potions and the like. I'm a packrat and save everything, and willing to help my guild get ahead that way. :)
Cana
I think the whole risk v reward thing is a bit of a red herring here. It isnt just adventuring. Fishing has a long history in MMOs. Cooking, brewing too. Farming could be a subset of that. How much risk is there in fishing, yet there were times in EQ when I fished and cooked stuff. Not hack and slash for sure. Ive picked out 8 crafting styles that look fun to me. But how much programming would it take to do farming right? There is risk v reward to programmimg. Whats the risk of putting something into the game for gatherers like farming. Somepeople love to craft. One of my best friends and his wife only crafted in EQ and EQ2 They loved it, and they turned me on to crafting, now I like it too. Sometimes I just wander around talking to PCs if they are willing. I have met people playing who are RL friends. MMO could mean different things for different people. VRR is making a grouping game, so crafting is going to need groups too.
Questaar said:I think the whole risk v reward thing is a bit of a red herring here. It isnt just adventuring. Fishing has a long history in MMOs. Cooking, brewing too. Farming could be a subset of that. How much risk is there in fishing, yet there were times in EQ when I fished and cooked stuff. Not hack and slash for sure. Ive picked out 8 crafting styles that look fun to me. But how much programming would it take to do farming right? There is risk v reward to programmimg. Whats the risk of putting something into the game for gatherers like farming. Somepeople love to craft. One of my best friends and his wife only crafted in EQ and EQ2 They loved it, and they turned me on to crafting, now I like it too. Sometimes I just wander around talking to PCs if they are willing. I have met people playing who are RL friends. MMO could mean different things for different people. VRR is making a grouping game, so crafting is going to need groups too.
The risk as you put it for fishing, was where you fished. The rare fished you needed for the good recipies were in bad locations that had high level mobs around. In EQ for example there were special fish in Sleepers Tomb, which that zone in its self required raid drops to even finish the entrance key.
While many, I am sure, are unsure about 'farmville' within a game like Pantheon ....
.... I think there is scope for it.
Not, under the heading @Vandraad suggests, of 'Challenge', but under the tenet of 'Community'.
Properly implemented, this would cover 'Socialisers' [cf Richard Bartle. 'Bartle Test'], RP'ers, Crafters, achievers and act as a gateway (drug) for semi-casuals to be introduced to a game meta not seen in any MMO in over 15 years.
So...
"What do you mean? How would Farmville accomplish that?" you ask.
1. The (non-instanced) farming plots are to be selected from designated 'farm land':
a) Areas near/surrounding 'civilised' (or other) areas/cities.
b) Areas which have been 'pacified' - Mobs driven away (or superceded/underused zone)
c) Areas supporting 'extreme' farming (designated pockets in un-pacified zones - beware mobs)
d) 'Safer' farms need faction/City-writs etc ... unsafe ones need a 'deal' with intelligent local mobs
2. The land needs to be worked:
a) You either labour yourself or 'farm' it out to players (scribe created 'contracts')
b) You either get the feed/fertiliser yourself or put advert in local village/town/city ('haulage' contract)
c) You harvest crops within the 'ripe' window or it rots (hire 'casual labourers' via 'work tickets')
c) You get produce to market (hire wagon or hire transport/guards)
3. You need to maintain the farm/equipment:
a) Craft the repairs/replacement yourself, or get them from other crafters
b) Fight/remove unwanted bugs/mobs yourself (area dependent) or hire others ('bounty' contracts)
4. Now we remove (nearly) all non-player crafted food from markets:
a) Farms now support the adventurer/crafter player-base
b) Crafters support the farmers for feed/repairs/replacements
c) Livestock farmers supply herds to other farmers/markets
d) Horse farmers supply un-trained mounts to players/cities
In a nutshell, well implemented farming can completely replace the food/drink infrastucture. This creates a comples interdependence between farmers, traders, 'casuals' (acting as hired labour or haulage) which can grow the community side of the game, while acting as a further economic driver to move money.
Farms in more dangerous zones may produce rarer, more powerful, materials for cooks/brewers.
Scribes create adverts or make/copy labour contracts for farms to hire players - particularly at harvest
Traders (or casuals) can rent/use wagons to re-supply or haul/buy produce.
Farms may offer benefits for outposts on/adjacent to them (safety/better foods)
While this speculation on my part does offer (possible) benefits even to a game such as Pantheon via strengthening the 'community' side of the coin, there are important issues that would need to be addressed first:
Land Grab / Claim stealing / Guild lockouts / deserted plots etc
That said, it might make a useful (post-launch) XPAC to have when server maturity causes some zones to feel emptier. A timely DLC/Update to add new 'PC selectable' farm plots may give the zone a new lease of life, a slight change in mob arrangements and an influx of players.
Hell, these new plots could also be created in higher level zones to introduce new raw materials @
Pumpkin farm in Unrest,
or
Garlic farm in Mistmore anyone?
Evoras, thinks the idea shold not be dismissed out of hand... the effort may be worth it!