Ravirn said:Grimseethe said:But why?
Having the freedom to change clothes doesnt make an mmo barbie dress up game.
You could play pantheon your entire life and never need to aknowledge transmog.
Just because you dont like them, millions do.If something have no negatives it should be added.
Pros.1. Great for roleplayers.
2. Its great not having all players look the same.
3. Gives people more reasons to visit older content.
4. Rare items can be sold on auction and add to the economy.
5. Its realistic, people dont wear the same clothes everyday.
6. Its fun and interesting to see what people come up with, and if you dont want to change clothes dont, it doesnt affect you.
Cons
1. It may hide the true power of an enemy player in the world, but this is a crap arugment as anyone attacking you, assume theyre strong, especially if theyre in lvl 1 gear attacking you.
Literally no other cons.
I hope the devs see this post.lets look at your list
pros
1) well I would say just the opposite. rollpayers want to get in to the game and to see a fighter looking like a ballerina wall tanking a boss is not that.
2) yes players look similar and you can normally tell the twinks from the experienced players with knowing that some are no drop items
3) no it don’t
4) don’t change anything
5) true in modern time theres no way a knight had more than 1 set of armor
6) I call it more of a eye sore most of the time
cons
1) true it also hides everyone’s else power
2) you left somethings out. More work on the devs part to get the game out.
3) more load on the servers
your List 6 vs 1 for transmog
looks to me more like 0 vs 9
actual pro's and con's
Pro's
1.) No, that's not going to happen because I've never seen a transmog system in any mmo that allows you to transmog a piece of gear that you can't equip naturally, meaning, unless there's a ballerina outfit for fighters already implemented in the game, it won't be transmoggable. I feel like most RP'ers actually enjoy the transmog system more then any other part of the playerbase, allowing them to change the appearance of their character to fit their backstory, alignment, and personal choices instead of having their appearance dictated by what armor sets the developers push for late game content. A good example of this is how in most games end game gear typically has a bunch of partical effects, glows, and looks extremely 'cool'. However, the person roleplaying a simple warrior might want lower level gear to show that simplicity.
2.) Yep, there's diveristy and creativity. I don't know how many times I've stopped in various MMOS to inspect people's gear to see what transmog item that was. I never do that with normal gear because 9/10 times I already know what piece it is. But when a player can mix a bunch of different pieces into one fully realized outfit, I like to see what they used, especially if it uses less common pieces from leveling that I may not have come across.
3.) Yes it does. In WoW people solo old raid and dungeon content specifically for transmog pieces, and at the beginning of an expansion there's almost always a group looking for people in the party finder to do transmog runs of the previous content.
4.) 100% true, again in WoW, certain green world drops as well as BoE dungeon and raid drops can be sold on the AH for quite a bit more money then you would think, which just adds a different niche in the market for players who are willing to do that content for those transmog drops.
5.) Ok, but how often to people change their transmog once it's perfected? About the same amount of time a knight changes his armor. Especially if they're a roleplayer, they'd likely only change it if they found something better (which would very much resemble the system without transmog where you upgraded as you found something better) or after a significant change in their backstory, i.e. changing their allegiances or going from a low ranking knight to a higher ranking knight.
6.) No more of an eyesore then the people who are going to min/max and have a bunch of different pieces of gear from different sets that all clash and look like a real eye-sore, or the underleveled people in low grade mix matched gear looking like an eye-sore. You really seem to forget that transmog only works on gear from the game, so there's no way someone can be a real eye-sore with transmog that wouldn't be realistic without transmog.
Con's
1.) Yep, it hides the power level of someone, but you can always inspect them.
2.) It is more work on the devs, although I don't think transmog systems really require that much coding to set up a system that replaces one already established model with another already established model. Despite that, this is 100% a luxury feature and should come after everything else.
3.) I really don't think that transmog is going to add an incredbily large or noticibly large amount of stress on the servers.
Ugh, I really hope not!
All these 'features' that MMOs have implemented over the years are the polar opposite to what I want from Pantheon. The game isn't even in Beta yet, and people are already whining on about wanting things like transmogs (let me look like I've put more effort in than I actually have) and XP potions (let me throw money at the XP grind to achieve more with less effort). Seriously, this 'instant gratification' disease is really ruining everything, for everyone (even if they don't realise it).
FlushingToiletScreamingShower said: So if I see weapon X on a players hands in game, then I know it's real and I think "oh that's cool". If transmogs are allowed, then any weapon anyone carries is probably fake, fraudulent, and I suddenly don't care, and am completely removed from immersion, and anything about that players avatar is is now worthless.
Exactly, and then, for me, I switch off from everything, lose interest and move on to something else.
It reminds me of a TV show my better half has been watching recently called 'Extreme Cake Makers'. There seems to be a trend recently for wedding cakes that are borderline the size of a sherman tank, but... because they can't actually afford a cake of that size, they're not really cakes, they're polystyrene slabs covered in fondant icing! I just couldn't understand how anyone wanted a fake cake at a wedding, for me, it's either a cake, or it's not. And even if one layer is actually a sponge and is edible, I don't care, it loses all sense of impact, my eyes glaze over, I lose interest, and walk away.
A purple cleric in EQ was impressive, as was a blue bard (I forget the name of those armour sets). You knew they spent a lot of time and effort obtaining their items and it was inspiring for lower level / new players to work toward. Transmog destroys so much immersion, and all it does is cater to those that want instant gratification without putting the work in to achieve the results.
To put this in perspective, my username is actually based on an armour set in EQ, I still remember seeing the set for the first time almost 20 years ago! I even remember where the guy was standing outside of Freeport! If transmog existed back then, it wouldn't have had the same impact, and I would never have inspected the guy to see what the name of the items were. And ultimately, I'd not have used this username for almost two decades since!
Maybe a compromise could be implementing transmogs that can change the visual appearance of items, but they don't match anything that's dropped? That way, loot from adventuring retains it's impact, but if you want to make your character more 'consistent' looking, a transmog can be used, but the styles available are unique to transmogs, meaning, they never match what's available on any loot table in the environment. Being able to dye your items can make a set look more like it all belongs together, so that's another viable alternative.
On the issue of BIS, personally, I would like to see multiple BSI in place depending on the combat situation. For example, one BSI breastplate could be good for dealing with dragons because it has + fire resist or chance to absorb a specific amount of fire damage. While in another situation maybe another breastplate has + dark resistance and is good for fighting necromancers. (Trying to stick away from weapons because I believe in the concept of epic class weapons that should be the pinnacle of BIS).
On the concept of transmog, I am all for it. The only thing I have ever found it to hurt is during PvP and not being able to determine what someone is wearing. Since PvP is not planed in Pantheon currently from my understanding I don't even see this as a con for the system. I think that class epic items should be exempted in this system though. I don't think that they should have the ability to look like anything else, nor do I think that anything else should have the ability to look like them.
I also like the concept of a dying system and wouldn't mind seeing it. My only issue with a dying system, and its something that the transmog system fixes, is that dying a piece of armor is great but if I didn't like the design of the armor before changing the color isn't going to do much for me. During my 20 years of gaming experience, I have come across some truly cosmetically unappealing armor pieces/sets and the option to dye them didn't do (or wouldn't have done) anything to change their unappealing nature.
You can't change one item to look like another item without first obtaining both items (equippable by your race/class) yourself. I don't understand the above concerns at all, they wouldn't be "fake" as those players would have at some point earned what they are showing off.
Iksar said:You can't change one item to look like another item without first obtaining both items (equippable by your race/class) yourself. I don't understand the above concerns at all, they wouldn't be "fake" as those players would have at some point earned what they are showing off.
Agreed. An appearance system is a net positive because it affords players more agency over their wardrobe-based accomplishments. I will always use the rubicite armor from EQOA as an example. Players had to spend a ton of time trying to acquire that armor because of its appearance. Acquiring the full set was in and of itself a meaningful accomplishment. At the same time, it never made practical sense to wear the full set if you had better pieces to fill out certain slots. Seeing that Pantheon is emphasizing situational gear ... where players will probably be mixing and matching a variety of different pieces, an appearance system solves many issues. An appearance system is way more desirable to me than any sort of dying system where players can adjust the actual look of their gear. That's what leads to every iron breastplate looking like the blood iron breastplate, or the shadow iron breastplate.
oneADseven said:Iksar said:You can't change one item to look like another item without first obtaining both items (equippable by your race/class) yourself. I don't understand the above concerns at all, they wouldn't be "fake" as those players would have at some point earned what they are showing off.
Agreed. An appearance system is a net positive because it affords players more agency over their accomplishments. I will always use the rubicite armor from EQOA as an example. Players had to spend a ton of time trying to acquire that armor because of its appearance. Acquiring the full set was in and of itself a meaningful accomplishment. At the same time, it never made practical sense to wear the full set if you had better pieces to fill out certain slots. Seeing that Pantheon is emphasizing situational gear ... where players will probably be mixing and matching a variety of different pieces, an appearance system solves many issues. An appearance system is way more desirable to me than any sort of dying system where players can adjust the actual look of their gear. That's what leads to every iron breastplate looking like the blood iron breastplate, or the shadow iron breastplate.
Let me rephrase 1ad7 in EQ terms. Apperence gear is cool. Gnome Skin armor from TOFS was cool for apperence since it was all black. Yes
In Vanguard my Disciple went through a lot during his twenties to collect a complete, matching Disciple outfit. I don't recall if it was a quest line or simply a number of bosses known to drop them, but I did get them piece-by-piece. It took so much mob killing that when I finally obtained the last piece, I had leveled so much that the combined stats were less impressive. Still, I loved that suit and wore it with pride long after it made sense stats-wise. Partly because I looked so cool, partly because of the achievement it represented. Even at max level, I would occasionally put it on before attending meetings in our guild hall.
For me looking good is as much an incentive as being powerful, so it is only fair that I must work hard to achieve either. A considerably easier path to looking cool will not appeal to me at all.
Likewise, it is important for me that I can tell from people's appearance how hard they have worked. If this means they look obscenely beautiful, too, I just go WOW! (WOW, not WoW, mind you.)
I don't know the details of how a transmog system would work in Pantheon if it was allowed at all. I suspect no one does not even VR. This isn't one of the key issues in development of the game. It is something to be considered after alpha or perhaps beta is going and we have a playable framework. Maybe even after release depending on how much time it would take and the resources available.
So I will comment not on details but on the plusses and minuses of cosmetic clothes/armor/weapons in MMOs.
1. A lot of people care a lot about this. I do not but I think it will greatly enhance the game for many players if they can use gear to dictate their appearance even after such gear becomes seriously outdated in terms of combat ability. Thus some form of cosmetic outfits is desirable for the success of the game and seems not to violate any core tenets.
2. A very minimum application would be one that allows us to see ourselves in cosmetic outfits, but does not allow others to so see us. Unsatisfactory to some that like showing off but far better than nothing.
3. A better approach IMO (not IMHO I have no humble opinions) would be to allow others to see us as we wish to be seen if the other player has checked off a box under options along the line of "see cosmetic outfits". This would permit those that do not want to see cosmetic outfits to not do so. But it might be too complicated or impose too much strain on the server or the client.
4. Forcing all of us to see any cosmetic outfits is a tougher call. IMO it should never be done on pvp servers for the obvious reasons - on pve servers I see no real objection as long as (a) you can only put gear in a costmetic set if you actually possess and can use the gear, and (b) VR doesn't provide ridiculous looking gear as many games with stores do. I blanch at the thought of the paladin fighting next to me wearing a skimpy bikini and a beach hat for example. Lends new meaning ....actually quite old meaning .... to the phrase destroying immersion. With all due respect I am not sure I trust VR to never provide ridiculous looking outfits.
The bikini topic does only seem relevant if the game present bikini armor and it will either be :
-Naked armor slot, thus no stats.
-Cloth or leather armor, thus not cosmetic for plate or mail armor unless they choose to wear cloth or leather armor on their most defending slots.
Does sound like some hyperbolic argument brought again and again from topic to topic like a mighty hammer.
Here is my take on it.
*NO* to transmog. Your gear is your gear. HOWEVER.... There should be "cosmetic only" aka "roleplaying" gear as well. This gear would have no special stats. Or maybe just +CHA stats. The purpose of this gear would be for players to "dress in their finery" for when they're not out adventuring and just want to "hang out"/attend events.
For instance, you're attending an in-game wedding (do those even still exist?). You don't want to wear your combat armor and weapons. You wear your cosmetic/roleplaying gear to the "wedding".
Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
If transmog does become a thing I want this option. Solves everything and has zero cons.
FlushingToiletScreamingShower said: So if I see weapon X on a players hands in game, then I know it's real and I think "oh that's cool". If transmogs are allowed, then any weapon anyone carries is probably fake, fraudulent, and I suddenly don't care, and am completely removed from immersion, and anything about that players avatar is is now worthless.
How is it a fake if they already have it? A good example I have of this is the Zodiac/Anima weapons from FFXIV. It was a big long questline to get them, and when the next expansion came out you had to give up your cool looking weapon that showed you went the long questline to obtained it for a generic leveling weapon with no depth to it. However, because transmog is available in the game, my character can use that amazing model and show off my accomplishment without sacrificing my stats. If someone walked by me and said, your weapon is fake, fraudulent and immersion breaking, they would just be wrong in my opinion because I earned that appearance and I earned my current stats and I refuse to sacrifice either.
Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
this. I remember seeing from brad or kilsin etc (can't remember who said it) if they allow transmog looks, that anyone could just turn it off and see you the way you really are.
I think this is great because I will never turn on Transmog, so I will always see you as you really are and you can waste time and coin on dress up all you want.
as far as BiS. with atmospheres and needed alternate gear for various situations, I don't see a lot of BiS happening.
In addition to that, BiS is a computer comparing max DPS with every piece of armor in the game until it finds what is best. That does not REALLY mean that it's BiS. lemme explain.
BiS being best dps or highest output of whatever would be like a warrior putting 100% of his armor with the absolute highest strength possible and doing so means he will have the highest dps possible. but a warrior that can't take a hit because he no stamina, is a useless warrior. BiS only counts if that warrior can stand still, never have to avoid fire, and never have to stop dps during a fight and is also required to do an EXACT rotation that can't be off by even .2 seconds or it messes up the DPS.
if I were a warrior and I could equip a Ring of Strength that gave me 3AC, 10 Str or a ring that would give me 25AC, 6 str and 5 Dex and 2 agi and 24hps. that 2nd ring would be way better except when parsing for MAX dps. if Strength is what gives max dps, the first ring would be BiS, not that 2nd one with 5 stats vs 2 stats.
I plan to be a cleric. I will heal that warrior wearing the 2nd ring way easier. dead dps is zero dps.
Flapp said:Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
this. I remember seeing from brad or kilsin etc (can't remember who said it) if they allow transmog looks, that anyone could just turn it off and see you the way you really are.
I think this is great because I will never turn on Transmog, so I will always see you as you really are and you can waste time and coin on dress up all you want.
as far as BiS. with atmospheres and needed alternate gear for various situations, I don't see a lot of BiS happening.
In addition to that, BiS is a computer comparing max DPS with every piece of armor in the game until it finds what is best. That does not REALLY mean that it's BiS. lemme explain.
BiS being best dps or highest output of whatever would be like a warrior putting 100% of his armor with the absolute highest strength possible and doing so means he will have the highest dps possible. but a warrior that can't take a hit because he no stamina, is a useless warrior. BiS only counts if that warrior can stand still, never have to avoid fire, and never have to stop dps during a fight and is also required to do an EXACT rotation that can't be off by even .2 seconds or it messes up the DPS.
if I were a warrior and I could equip a Ring of Strength that gave me 3AC, 10 Str or a ring that would give me 25AC, 6 str and 5 Dex and 2 agi and 24hps. that 2nd ring would be way better except when parsing for MAX dps. if Strength is what gives max dps, the first ring would be BiS, not that 2nd one with 5 stats vs 2 stats.
I plan to be a cleric. I will heal that warrior wearing the 2nd ring way easier. dead dps is zero dps.
First : you don't need to be passive agressive with pro "transmog" players. " wasting coins" and such is yet depending on how it is implemented, or not.
Second : you're not going to put theorical "dps bis" on a tank. Bis exists mostly for dps role because defense has never been valorized for non tank roles for it to matter, and gear has been softened to the point there is no longer "different" gear but just upgrades with a few secondaries of difference, which are more or less valuable depending on the class. See wow since wotlk or eq starting at velious raids for the idea of "ilvl upgrade gear".
Some items will be vastly better than others at a same step of progression. They simply should be less commons.
MauvaisOeil said:Flapp said:Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
this. I remember seeing from brad or kilsin etc (can't remember who said it) if they allow transmog looks, that anyone could just turn it off and see you the way you really are.
I think this is great because I will never turn on Transmog, so I will always see you as you really are and you can waste time and coin on dress up all you want.
as far as BiS. with atmospheres and needed alternate gear for various situations, I don't see a lot of BiS happening.
In addition to that, BiS is a computer comparing max DPS with every piece of armor in the game until it finds what is best. That does not REALLY mean that it's BiS. lemme explain.
BiS being best dps or highest output of whatever would be like a warrior putting 100% of his armor with the absolute highest strength possible and doing so means he will have the highest dps possible. but a warrior that can't take a hit because he no stamina, is a useless warrior. BiS only counts if that warrior can stand still, never have to avoid fire, and never have to stop dps during a fight and is also required to do an EXACT rotation that can't be off by even .2 seconds or it messes up the DPS.
if I were a warrior and I could equip a Ring of Strength that gave me 3AC, 10 Str or a ring that would give me 25AC, 6 str and 5 Dex and 2 agi and 24hps. that 2nd ring would be way better except when parsing for MAX dps. if Strength is what gives max dps, the first ring would be BiS, not that 2nd one with 5 stats vs 2 stats.
I plan to be a cleric. I will heal that warrior wearing the 2nd ring way easier. dead dps is zero dps.
First : you don't need to be passive agressive with pro "transmog" players. " wasting coins" and such is yet depending on how it is implemented, or not.
Second : you're not going to put theorical "dps bis" on a tank. Bis exists mostly for dps role because defense has never been valorized for non tank roles for it to matter, and gear has been softened to the point there is no longer "different" gear but just upgrades with a few secondaries of difference, which are more or less valuable depending on the class. See wow since wotlk or eq starting at velious raids for the idea of "ilvl upgrade gear".
Some items will be vastly better than others at a same step of progression. They simply should be less commons.
This entire post makes no sense, tanks do go after gear that makes them do more damage, so they can create more threat, plus with the new damage modifiers on their skills it makes your statement even more incorrect, a tanky class doing no damage isn't a tank, he's merely someone who can't hold threat.
MauvaisOeil said:Flapp said:Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
this. I remember seeing from brad or kilsin etc (can't remember who said it) if they allow transmog looks, that anyone could just turn it off and see you the way you really are.
I think this is great because I will never turn on Transmog, so I will always see you as you really are and you can waste time and coin on dress up all you want.
as far as BiS. with atmospheres and needed alternate gear for various situations, I don't see a lot of BiS happening.
In addition to that, BiS is a computer comparing max DPS with every piece of armor in the game until it finds what is best. That does not REALLY mean that it's BiS. lemme explain.
BiS being best dps or highest output of whatever would be like a warrior putting 100% of his armor with the absolute highest strength possible and doing so means he will have the highest dps possible. but a warrior that can't take a hit because he no stamina, is a useless warrior. BiS only counts if that warrior can stand still, never have to avoid fire, and never have to stop dps during a fight and is also required to do an EXACT rotation that can't be off by even .2 seconds or it messes up the DPS.
if I were a warrior and I could equip a Ring of Strength that gave me 3AC, 10 Str or a ring that would give me 25AC, 6 str and 5 Dex and 2 agi and 24hps. that 2nd ring would be way better except when parsing for MAX dps. if Strength is what gives max dps, the first ring would be BiS, not that 2nd one with 5 stats vs 2 stats.
I plan to be a cleric. I will heal that warrior wearing the 2nd ring way easier. dead dps is zero dps.
First : you don't need to be passive agressive with pro "transmog" players. " wasting coins" and such is yet depending on how it is implemented, or not.
Second : you're not going to put theorical "dps bis" on a tank. Bis exists mostly for dps role because defense has never been valorized for non tank roles for it to matter, and gear has been softened to the point there is no longer "different" gear but just upgrades with a few secondaries of difference, which are more or less valuable depending on the class. See wow since wotlk or eq starting at velious raids for the idea of "ilvl upgrade gear".
Some items will be vastly better than others at a same step of progression. They simply should be less commons.
Tanks do build for damage. It's the age of mmos we live in where we don't really care if the entire raid is at 1hp when the boss is dead because that's still a win. Therefore, healers and tanks dps is crucial to fights. Yes, you want enough defensive stats to withstand tank mechanics, but after that, its about the most damage you can do to kill the boss the fastest.
MauvaisOeil said:
First : you don't need to be passive agressive with pro "transmog" players. " wasting coins" and such is yet depending on how it is implemented, or not.
Second : you're not going to put theorical "dps bis" on a tank. Bis exists mostly for dps role because defense has never been valorized for non tank roles for it to matter, and gear has been softened to the point there is no longer "different" gear but just upgrades with a few secondaries of difference, which are more or less valuable depending on the class. See wow since wotlk or eq starting at velious raids for the idea of "ilvl upgrade gear".
Some items will be vastly better than others at a same step of progression. They simply should be less commons.
First: don't tell me how to feel or talk about things. I hate transmog. so if i was passive aggressive, and that bothers you, that's on you, not me.... since I don't have to look at it, to me, it is a waste of time and coin to play dress up.
second:
Sorry my example wasn't a vjek post with flow charts and algorithms, and detailed enough that you and Riahuff22 couldn't figure out the lame example. If a warrior tank or dps warrior's PRIMARY stat is STR, pure strength items that sacifice every other stat just to boost one doesn't mean its the BiS just because it had the higher str number. (there are DPS warriors too btw, i watched aradune pay as a dps warrior in the last Cohh stream)
I really didn't think i had to go that deep to get people to get the jest of the post. next time I will go into EXTREME detail if you want so that the meaning isn't so confusing to people. sorry it "doesn't make sense" to some. i didn't think it was that hard to follow. i was just trying to make a point.
zoltar said:A lot of the sentiment behind the anti-transmog community is that your appearance should reflect the amoutn of effort you put into your character
With "transmog" systems (honestly why call it this? WoW was not the first to come up with wardrobe systems, and it's hardly even the best out there), your appearance still reflects the amount of effort you put into your character. You're just not forced to look like the gear you're currently wearing.
Wardrobe system =/= "I can costume any gear, even if I haven't earned it!"
Flapp said:
First: don't tell me how to feel or talk about things. I hate transmog. so if i was passive aggressive, and that bothers you, that's on you, not me.... since I don't have to look at it, to me, it is a waste of time and coin to play dress up.
second:
Sorry my example wasn't a vjek post with flow charts and algorithms, and detailed enough that you and Riahuff22 couldn't figure out the lame example. If a warrior tank or dps warrior's PRIMARY stat is STR, pure strength items that sacifice every other stat just to boost one doesn't mean its the BiS just because it had the higher str number. (there are DPS warriors too btw, i watched aradune pay as a dps warrior in the last Cohh stream)
I really didn't think i had to go that deep to get people to get the jest of the post. next time I will go into EXTREME detail if you want so that the meaning isn't so confusing to people. sorry it "doesn't make sense" to some. i didn't think it was that hard to follow. i was just trying to make a point.
Beeing egocentric and effortless in your argumentation isn't going to make a point, and probably going to deserve your point even if you seem persuaded you don't care
This is a forum, and the way you speak out is part of what will serve or deserve the community. It's not a place to bash out your opinions and consider others as worthless.
You don't like players to be able to change their look, we got this. Your reasons remain personnal and far to be a truth, neither to be embrassed by the majority, which should hint you it is not so simple.
Now to get back on bis, because you didn't understood my point as you got stuck on beeing told something you didn't want to :
Bis exists because gear became meaningless in games, and mindless computer generated stuff scaling main stats and stamina with random secondaries. The same happened with velious gear from kael drakkal gear up to vulak aerr : gear became so monotonous they only built upgrades with more stats, more armor, more dps.
Gear went from choices to static upgrades because every gear dropped turned out to be just better in everything. And special flakes items disappeared completely.
Bring back choices and require investment in survival even for dps and min max choices will be harder especially if loots remain rare and special flake gear even rarer.
MyNegation said:no transmog in pantheon, it was agreed long ago in this community.
basically you look exactly like what you wear. this is not barbie dress up game.
Wolfsong said:Agreed, and I'm glad it was agreed among the community. I missed the discussion I think lol.
I feel like transmogs and "social gear" have grown in popularity as the idea of truly rare that takes time and/or dedication - maybe even some luck - to acquire fell out of style in favor of faster and more convenient everything. It's another casualty of the move toward more accessible and casual-friendly themepark design.
I'm sorry (not really) but no, it was not "agreed" upon.
Also, your belief that wardrobe systems suddenly mean that gear loses all meaning and doesn't require any work to obtain is absolutely absurd. The Canopus Lux I worked my freaking butt off to acquire in FFXIV back during Heavensward doesn't suddenly lose all of the effort it took to get just because I decided to glamour its appearance onto a weapon I got in Shadowbringers.
By definition, any piece of gear someone wardrobes/glamours/transmogs/whatever-you-want-to-call-its onto their existing gear represents gear that was EARNED. They got that drop or crafted that piece or completed the long and arduous quest to obtain it.