Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Player Influx from "Modern" MMO's and Capes!

    • 5 posts
    January 12, 2019 7:46 AM PST

    Hello everyone!

     

    I'm interested in two things, but I'll start with the sticky question first. Should a game like World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV take a bad turn and begin to loose players, what would Visionary Realm's response be should that player base choose Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen as their place to go? Over the years of playing MMO's, I've seen that an exodus like this can really change the face of an MMO's mechanics from the direction they started with into something completely different. What I really want to know is, should this kind of exodus happen to Panthon, would the game then start to shift from the Old-School inspired  MMO it strives to be into a more modern-mmo player friendly version?

     

    My other question involves the coolest part of any adventurer's wardrobe, capes! I know it's rather soon to worry about something aesthetically like a cloak on a gnome or ogre, but are they planned to be visible? I just love the look of an armored knight or wise wizard with a long, billowing cloak.

    • 1272 posts
    January 12, 2019 8:09 AM PST

    I can't really speak for VR but I think you maybe have a slight misconception :)

    1) I am quite sure that Pantheon will stay true to its vision, and won't change just because there's more players from Game X out there to be snapped up.  Whatever Game X is.

    2) There is no reason at all that Pantheon won't appeal to people who currently play and enjoy games like World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV.  By saying that those players have vastly different underlying wants and needs from people who played "old school" MMOs, you're really doing both them and yourself a disservice.  While we all have aspects of our favorite games that we like or dislike, the vast majority of gamers out there judge each game on its own merits.  Our goal should be to get as many people to try Pantheon as possible, regardless of what they played in the past.

    Also:  Capes/cloaks are super cool.  I'm with you on that one :)

    • 5 posts
    January 12, 2019 8:14 AM PST

    You're right! I apologize for being rather narrow-minded on that aspect. I'm just afraid of something I'm so excited and happy for turning out into another money-grabbing MMO project, as it seems like most MMO's are now-a-days. Thank you for setting me back on track! :)

    • 2229 posts
    January 12, 2019 8:22 AM PST

    Note that VR is independent and thus able to combine making their creative vision a reality and also making it profitable. 

    If they were owned by a major studio (or anyone else) they could be forced to do whatever seemed financially best to the owner regardless of their own preferences.

    Thus the chances of a sudden about-face are much lower. 

    Note also that it is not that easy to revamp a MMO and change its core features. If one or two major MMOs folded or lost many players even if they *wanted* to sell their souls for the hope of greater profits, by the time they could recode it would probably be too late so they wouldn't likely even try.

    The main risk is that Pantheon is not financially successful, and they face the choice of shutting it down or changing it to appeal to the masses. This *can* happen - success is *never* guaranteed. Obviously we and VR are as one in hoping that it will not happen.

    • 366 posts
    January 12, 2019 9:49 AM PST

    Why would you change the game to be more like them if they are failing?  

    • 598 posts
    January 12, 2019 9:57 AM PST

    most players that are dissatisfied with those games are or will actively seek out other games.  honestly i don't think much advertising needs to be done.  wow for example has already left a really bad taste in many players mouth just based on the operation of the game.  VR basically has the correct platform that many gamers are looking for: no cash shop or microtransactions, subscription based.  as long as they focus on what they are doing i think it'll do well.  it goes down to quality vs quantity.

    • 638 posts
    January 12, 2019 9:58 AM PST

    First question has been addressed. I just want to toss out my love for (well-animated) cloaks and capes!

    • 598 posts
    January 12, 2019 10:03 AM PST

    there's a movie where capes get super heros killed.  i don't remember it exactly, but the saying was along the lines of "looks cool not functional" 

    • 638 posts
    January 12, 2019 10:09 AM PST

    stellarmind said:there's a movie where capes get super heros killed.  i don't remember it exactly, but the saying was along the lines of "looks cool not functional"

    This isn't a super hero game where players are flying around and getting sucked into airplane engines. I think cloaks are a bit more functional/practical in this setting. xD

    • 598 posts
    January 12, 2019 10:32 AM PST

    haha true that ^.^

    • 65 posts
    January 12, 2019 10:43 AM PST

    There will be alot of WoW players coming over, because of what Blizzard/Astivision has turned that game into an abomination. They stopped listening to their players along time ago. I watch alot of streamers from that game talking about their gripes. There is a few that up and quit the game that are waiting for Pantheon to come out. The more subs for VR the better! 

    • 598 posts
    January 12, 2019 10:48 AM PST

    yea most of my associates have finally bookshelved the game.  they are tired of chasing the carrot on the stick.  everyone saw the writing on the wall when activision and blizzard merged.  some just didn't want to face the bitter truth and continued with the sweet lies.

    • 65 posts
    January 12, 2019 1:34 PM PST

    those lies were too sweet now theres a dibetes epidemic lol

    • 70 posts
    January 12, 2019 7:43 PM PST

    Quambu said:

    There will be alot of WoW players coming over, because of what Blizzard/Astivision has turned that game into an abomination. They stopped listening to their players along time ago. I watch alot of streamers from that game talking about their gripes. There is a few that up and quit the game that are waiting for Pantheon to come out. The more subs for VR the better! 

     

    This is just what the OP is talking about though. Changing a games mechanics based on the assumption it might pick up players from another game. I don't think the OP should be worried. Brad has his visions and he will see them come to fruition come hell or high water this time. Not any amount of WoW players or subscriptions is going to change that. At least I hope he has the guts to stick it out and avoid making changes because his players say so. There is a difference between feedback and noob complaining. Hopefully they can differentiate.


    This post was edited by Moloka at January 12, 2019 7:44 PM PST
    • 366 posts
    January 13, 2019 12:01 PM PST

    We've seen cloaks in the streams on the rogues.  They aren't really animated, but that's understandable at this point.

    • 118 posts
    January 14, 2019 7:33 AM PST
    I don't see anything wrong with capes or cloaks.
    Though I would like to see some look very different then other games styles.
    • 502 posts
    January 14, 2019 7:42 AM PST
    The movie was The Incredibles... just saying haha. And I hope cloaks are in the game too
    • 1161 posts
    January 14, 2019 3:35 PM PST

    Just give me the option if turning off helms and cloaks.   I despise them both.  Why would a plate armor wearer have a cloak... infact why would anyone have a cloak...

    • 638 posts
    January 14, 2019 4:36 PM PST

    For protection from the elements... and for fashion! :D

    • 187 posts
    January 14, 2019 6:32 PM PST

     WoW already seems to have taken a bad turn heh...but on the topic of mass exodus from Pantheon for whatever reason causing a huge design change yeah. The swing to "player friendly" design will speed up the demise just like it does with every MMORPG that attempts dramatic changes that alienate the original player base. I have yet to see a subscription MMORPG to "Free to Play" and thrive. I have yet to see an MMORPG do a complete redesign and thrive. Empty MMOs tend to go F2P throw in the cash shop and do the final milking before the sunset, don't think Pantheon will be any different in that regard if it fails. I don't think Pantheon is going to fail, but if it does the same fate awaits it as every other failed MMO.

    EDIT: Actually after thinking about it FF14 was a complete redesign wasn't it? I shouldn't say it's impossible for this reason.


    This post was edited by Ziegfried at January 14, 2019 6:33 PM PST
    • 11 posts
    January 15, 2019 5:01 AM PST

    Personally I think the biggest risk to the nature of Pantheon would be the acquisition of VR by a larger company.

    If I was religious in real life I'd be praying that SOE don't buy out VR one day.....

    • 1161 posts
    January 15, 2019 10:12 AM PST

    Naunet said:

    For protection from the elements... and for fashion! :D

    Isnt your armor enough protection from the elements.

    • 1039 posts
    January 15, 2019 10:25 AM PST

    I understand the OP's concern. Fact is, this is the basis to which many MMOs of the past were altrered. EQ, LoTRO, WoW, etc... all over time were altered to appeal to a base that was vocal and demanding and was at times outside of the original design goals of the MMO. 

     

    VR has a very difficult road to travel. In my opinion, the modern MMO gamer won't disregard Pantheon, rather they will come to it, play it, find it appealing and then.... demand it change to appeal to their ideal (which will be strongly influenced by modern gaming idealogy). This is how many of the MMO's failed over time. It wasn't some nefarious crowd that approached and demanded instant gratifications and easy rewards, rather it was a slow process disguised as "convenience" in play. 

    The OP's argument is quite real and valid in concern. I saw as games like LoTRO were killed even before they hit release with such thinking. I watched EQ, EQ2, DDO, WoW, Rift, etc...fall at various stages of their development to such process. The fact is, VR can have the best intentions, but if they are not careful and diligent to a given hardline focus, they too will fall to such slow growing cancers that destoyed previous games in all gaming markets.

     

     

    • 127 posts
    January 15, 2019 3:32 PM PST

    @Tanix it's a fair and realistic concern given what's happened to MMO's in the past, although VR's stance on this subject breeds confidence. They have specifically stated that they do not believe in any MMO becoming 'the WoW killer' or 'the next big thing,' but what they do believe is that the future for MMO's is in focusing on appealing greatly to a smaller target audience as opposed to trying to reign everyone in and not really making anyone feel like it's the perfect game for them due to concessions that were made to appease different focus groups.

    They believe that an MMO can be niche and still successful.

    • 1039 posts
    January 15, 2019 3:54 PM PST

    Kaeldorn said:

    @Tanix it's a fair and realistic concern given what's happened to MMO's in the past, although VR's stance on this subject breeds confidence. They have specifically stated that they do not believe in any MMO becoming 'the WoW killer' or 'the next big thing,' but what they do believe is that the future for MMO's is in focusing on appealing greatly to a smaller target audience as opposed to trying to reign everyone in and not really making anyone feel like it's the perfect game for them due to concessions that were made to appease different focus groups.

    They believe that an MMO can be niche and still successful.

    My concern is not their intent (I believe they honestly intend to do as they say), rather it is what happens when people begin to flood in and you have the "death by a thousand cuts", or rather "appeals" begins. It isn't the blatant requests for change that are the issue, rather it is the subtle requests that slowly build to the same result. What killed most MMOs of the past didn't happen over night, it was a very slow process that began early on (This process was present even in EQ from day one where people kept asking/debating for changes that slowly had an effect on the game). 

    Now I am not saying various changes argued for EQ early on were bad (I would rather avoid that discussion in this specific thread), rather my point is that some were made not for the "health" of the game, rather for the result of what a player may have wanted or saw as beneficial to them personally in play (most "convenience" changes aren't argued from a position of one seeking a cheat/hand out, but rather from the position that it makes the game more accessible to the player in their given situation). The point is that it will be a very difficult road for VR as many of these requests will be shrouded in various arguments that are claimed with honest merit, yet will be coming from a public that does not share the same goals as VR has stated (which is evident by some of the arguments we even see in this forum now).