Forums » The Monk

What makes a monk a true off-tank?

    • 33 posts
    December 7, 2018 6:15 AM PST
    If you look on the pantheon page under classes, the 3 tank classes (warrior, pally, direlord) are all listed specifically as "TANK."

    However, the monk is the ONLY class that says "OFF-TANK."

    My question is, what are they doing or giving the monk to make it a true off tank.

    You would think that another warrior or pally/dire would make a better off tank since they seem to be the True tank classes like pantheon is pushing.

    They seem to be specific that the monk is NOT a tank. So why go with a monk to off-tank instead of having another tank fulfil that role?



    I played a monk in eq2. They were labelled tanks, albiet probably the weakest (with raiding in mind). However, they could tank and were built around tanking.

    What I loved most about the monk was that they were weak tanks, but if you were geared well and played the class well, you could be a badass tank. It would really blow some minds of people that swore monks couldn't tank...but I was a raid Main tank a few times. I loved it. I hope it stays the same here.
    • 1402 posts
    December 7, 2018 11:29 AM PST

    I'm sure if you wanted a tank class to off-tank for your group they would be great at it (likely as good as your group's tank).  But the monk being able to off-tank would probably imply that if the situation arose in a group that they couldn't handle adds some other way, the monk could hold his own for long enough, until the tank was available to take over.  Their primary role is DPS.  They should generally outshine a true tank in DPS, and that's generally why groups would want them (and their utility).  Being able to tank in a pinch is just a perk they have over other melee DPS classes.

    It will probably be implemented with abilities with short duration and/or longer cooldowns, and possibly some abilites that tanks get but not to the level they get them (like parry or block), as well as better hp than other DPS classes, and possibly better AC.

    • 68 posts
    December 7, 2018 10:53 PM PST

    If you look at the class page, you can read the abilities (as of now anyway) that give you an idea of how they work as Offtanks. Basically, they are short-term tanks that rely on cooldowns and certain abilities to mitigate damage and heal themselves, but in doing so they will lose DPS (due to mechanics and resourses to use them). So burst defensives with some burst healing over a short duration (same for threat generation).

    Hope this helps.

    • 16 posts
    January 2, 2019 2:01 PM PST

    Without doing any research, I believe the role of a main-tank is to hold agro and sustain damage from 3 or more enemies.  An off-tank would only be able to this with 1 or 2 enemies.  

    The Monk's "tank" role could include taunting any enemy that has peeled off onto the healer/dps and bring it back to the main-tank to re-aquire, or peel an enemy off the main-tank when the healer cannot heal through the tanks failing mitigation situation.  

    • 33 posts
    January 2, 2019 3:18 PM PST
    You are just describing the ROLE of an off-tank.

    You're not describing what makes the monk a viable off tank.

    In a jist, they are making it seem like the monk is just going to be a subpar tank. Perhaps good enough for a small group dungeon run when they just can't get a true tank. But certainly not good enough for raids.


    In a raid of 24, or even 12, I am certainly going to have at least one other tank other thank a monk. So using your example, if a monk is only good enough to handle 1 or 2 mobs....yet the other 3 "true tanks" classes can handle 3 or 4 mobs.....why on Earth would I ever want a monk as an off-tank? Why not just have a second warrior or pally, or DL do it instead?

    That's my point. They are just making it seem very defined that the monk is absolutely a second class tank.
    • 16 posts
    January 4, 2019 2:13 PM PST

    I view the description of the monk (and abilities) to state it's not really what an "off tank" is currently.  The primary thing to the monk will be dps, but they will have some defensive capabilities that will allow them to take a bit of a beating as needed... partially due to the damage they're putting out.

     

    So the "off tank" listing to me is saying the crap hit the fan and need someone to keep the healer alive for a few. :D

     

    For a raid that will require what we think of as an off tank will be another of the tank classes.  The monk will be there as a high damage, but able to help bail out in an emergency.

    • 89 posts
    January 4, 2019 10:55 PM PST
    • 33 posts
    January 4, 2019 11:08 PM PST
    Zazazuu

    Congratulations! You posted an hour's worth of a stream we've all watched!
    • 89 posts
    January 4, 2019 11:42 PM PST

    Sorry, check it out at 51:20 min

    • 33 posts
    January 5, 2019 11:03 AM PST

    So, judging from what you pointed out from the youtube stream (good catch btw) that the monk isn't really a tank at all. If anything, they are a brief...few seconds, last ditch effort of a tank to possibly rez a real tank situation. 

    Monk is solely a dps/puller. Unfortunate because I dont see monks being that necessary now. Im sure the monk's dps will be probably the lowest of all the dps classes. Yea, they can pull, but I don't see that being that big of a deal except for raids. And even in a raid situation, would only need 1 monk. 

    Kind of sad to me. I LOVE playing underrated/underplayed classes. Monk is usually that for me. I also like being good at classes that aren't "The best" at their role. In EQ2 monks were the bottom choice for tanking in raids. But I was so well geared/skill I main tanked quite a bit in EQ2. I could also throw up surprising dps numbers in raids too when not tanking. 

    It seems to me that this will not be the case here. Seems monks role will really just be to pull in raids, dps in groups/raids, and then maybe tank some easier group content or off tank if the MT goes down in a group...no off tanking in raids. 

    I'm just worried how their dps will stack compared to other dps classes. If its not close, I can see raids only have 1 monk max ONLY to pull and then stack the raid with better dps. 

    • 68 posts
    January 5, 2019 7:11 PM PST

    I don't think Monk dps will be low. What he says in that clip, by "burst tanking", he is refering to Defensive cooldowns and self-healing abilities.  So pop those things and you can offtank for a little while, get mobs CC'd or a tank battle rez'd etc. That to me, is a fine role for the monk. I am sure their melee dps will rival that of a rogue, as it always has in most other games. One of the largest benefits of the monk has always been the survivability.

    • 367 posts
    January 10, 2019 8:22 AM PST

    To piggyback onto Fragile's last comment, the monk's DPS doesn't rely so heavily on positioning like the rogue and ranger (having to mix ranged and melee to maximize DPS).  So it may be safe to say that in some situations all of the melee DPS classes will outshine others.  To answer the Original Post, I think that the Monk is labeled as an Off-Tank because they have threat generating abilities (not just pulling threat from DPS), along with defensive and self healing abilties.  Hard threat generating abilities combined with feign death can also be used to "eat" a heavy attack if the main tank is low on HP, then FD the threat back to the tank immediately after your cooldowns are done.  I'm sure if well geared/over-leveled for an area that the monnk could probably be a great tank when taking the threat generated from their DPS into account as well.

    • 19 posts
    January 12, 2019 1:31 AM PST

    The monk being an off tank would most likely be due to their avoidance. A true tank is built to withstand the blows that are directed toward them but a monk as a offtank is meant to dodge the hits. You can kinda ignore an offtank in this fashion as they shouldnt be taking as much sustained damage and coupled with what Darch said they have threat generating abilities to keep the mob off the healer and they can heal themselves to some degree.

    In the end how good a monk is at offtanking will be based on their avoidance capabilites as well as their defensive, healing and threat cooldowns but also largely on the skill level of the person playing the monk. A well played monk will most likely make you pause and itching to create an alt and try to get to that level of skill just as it should be with any well played class.