Given you can't reasonably expect the combat animations to keep up with the actual actions (like triple backstab, slash, slice, poison proc, kick, elbow strike, de-taunt, all in 1-2 seconds?) I don't really care what the combat animations look like, myself.
Very low on my personal list of priorities, and what they have now seems fine, especially given there are three continents worth of content outstanding before launch, to complete.
If the animations have reasonable variation in them, so it's not the same thing repeated 10 times in a row? I'll be happy for years. But I mean, I suffered through EQ1 animations, whatever they do will be better than that, and so, good enough for me.
Akilae said:I intend to play an Enchanter at release and I have no interest in a bunch of animations and effects on MOBs that are mezzed, stunned, asleep, etc. To me that will only confuse the melee (the event, not the physical fighters). For years and years this wasn't ever necessary in EQ and I can't imagine it would be all that helpful now. Dealing with mezzes that have worn off or been broken is just part of the game. A good group will /assist their tank or off-tank (or whoever their MA is) and a failed mez isn't a big deal; Re-mez, group steps back a few feet if you have AoE effects, carnage continues.
Nothing against a spell effect on the MOB when the mez/stun/whatever is applied but please, no neon status signs over the MOBs' heads. Trust your enchanter to know their craft and keep the room on lockdown. They're trusting you to taunt, fireball, stab or whatever it is you do.
Well the post was about how I think combat animations should be improved and this was an area where I think some good non intrusive animations could be key. I am 100% with you that I don't want giant flashing lights or signs above the head of the mobs. But as I said in a previous post like a mob swaying drunk when mezzed or some roots/ice at the feet of the mob if rooted. Simple things that could go a long way especially since this games combat is going to be a lot more complex than original EQ with a lot more classes having forms of crowd control. I think it would be a lot more interesting/fun for all classes to have a chance to use their skills with some easy clues of when mobs are crowd controled or not.
Yeah as a enchanter this might not be as important because your entire job is mez but if you don't have a enchanter other classes will be fighting and something to help them keep an eye on what mobs are crowd controled could be a huge help. Something like a 5 seconds till it wears off animation would be amazing for high action classes who want to keep their crowd control up. But none of this is really needed I just thought it would be a cool idea and would be happy to see something like this.
Thanks for the information, Alikae. I think a fair summary of this thread may be along the following lines but I may well be wrong. Not for the first time.
I think almost all of us agree that we want more than the characters standing there without moving at all, but less than the amount of action that would create significant lag in group or raid combat.
I think few of us probably want big splashes of blood or fire or so many different effects flashing by almost instantly that it is impossible to keep track of them. We each have our own opinion on what makes the combat screen too busy, of course.
Less obtrusive things like the motion of a weapon or shield, flinches or movements to avoid an attack, the waving of an arm by a finger wiggler (mage or healer) etc. most of us probably prefer (or at least don't mind) as much realism as is feasible without putting too much strain on the server or client and without taking a lot of developer time that could be spent on larger and more significant things.
We all expect the shape of future combat animations to get more and more clear (and almost surely more detailed and attractive) as we move through the stages of testing.
My only complaint about animations thus far, is that the characters seem to "stand tall" in between every ability, as if they are reset to their non-combat, "standing around" position between swings. They should have an "in-combat" stance, or even a few different stances that they default to in between swings/casts/abilities.
I know that of course they are working on this, but I think getting it fixed earlier would do a lot to improve the first impressions/reactions to the game in general, especially from the 'non-eq-initiated' types.
Expecting nothing revolutionary, understanding the limitations imposed by the genre that modern developers still can't surpass, I have only one thing to add and that's this:
If a critical hit in this game is portrayed by the guy performing a superfluous 360 degree spin before swinging, it's not going to look as awesome as when geralt of rivia from the witcher does it, absolutely no way. It's going to look more like when the PC from dragon age does it - slow, awkward and telegraphed far in advance, distractingly so. Therefore, no spinning attack animations. Please, god, let this be the only MMORPG without a single one.
I'm pretty open to whatever animations they end up with. But I draw the line on what I have seen in the Streams where the monk is throwing that triple punch 2ft away from the Mob. I'm a Wrestling Entertainment fan so I'm "ok" with fake, but if wrestlers were THAT bad at faking it I'd never watch another episode.
Whatever pantheon ends up with at least make it look like they are actually connecting.
Animations are most welcome. But there is no need to make them too flashy. So no thanks to screens flashing or long animated special effects.
It's all nice when you play solo and in a very small group.
But if you've raided on extreme quality settings, you'll know that many games are not designed for it and it actually doesn't work. I have no problem raiding on extreme quality settings and I had no lagg issues. The very sad part of it was that, it just didn't look pretty anymore. Fireworks all over the place, very chaotic and disorienting. And I'm not talking about nametags, third person damage, etc. Pure graphical animations by players. I actually had to lower my graphic settings, purely because graphically it wasn't appealing at all anymore. It had lost it's value in raidcontext.
So far, we've seen only a very limited amount of players near each other, doing the occasional combat art or spell. This makes it very difficult to compare and to realize how it would look if everyone is doing their job properly.
Imagine going into a cave in Pantheon as a group, you pass a group at the start and further down there are another two groups fighting mobs. I wouldn't like the feeling as if I'm walking into a disco.
If anything, let the dev's focus on the sound and fighting/spellcasting emotes that are already there or in the pipeline. I want to see a monk actually hitting the body, not just weaving their arms in front of it. The timing during animations is crucial to experience that you are really hitting the mob.
Sure you can enlarge the animation when you've done a critical hit, but just think ahead about 30+ players in raidoutfit, critting the heck out of a raidmob. Would it still make sense?
One thing, I would like to see in the game, is the actual use of shields. So that there is some kind of animation when you're using your shield. This is in most mmo's not present.
Don't forget animations and spell effects can still be altered after launch (see eq2 for such an example).
When it comes to animations i just want my character to attack and i want to feel that swing of my weapon the milisecond i push the button.
LOTRO is a good example of boring and slightly delayed combat.
I also want smart AI.
humanoid enemies like bandits should be doing everything possible to stay alive.
using line of sight, dodging, using the enviroment.
If they have a shiled use it, if im throwing a fireball at somethig i want it to dodge me.
I value useful information over entertainment, meaning I would like to be able to see when a mob is making ready to cast something or is about to attack the healer, or when the enchanter is attempting a land mezz and on who. Anything that gives me better chance to decide my next move.
I totally understand people wanting to see their attacks have a visual impact on the target but honestly given the size of the team and the other things they need to get right this shouldn’t be something they focus on heavily before launch. Animations can be added gradually over time. As long as they movements of the PCs and NPC’s look decent I don’t need there to be a precise correlation between the two.
The important things IMO are making sure CC effects are obvious to all so people don’t break CC. Casting effects from casting NPC’s should also be telegraphed so interrupts can be applied.
A little touch I liked relating to this is the graduation of casting effects in EQ. As the PC reached certain milestones their spells evolved. It made it easy to tell what level a player was simple by how their spells looked and it was a pretty easy system to implement. Always felt awesome to reach a new level and suddenly have more impressive looking spells.
I’ve played some of the recent Korean MMO’s (BDO) and enjoyed the over the top action based combat they offer, but it’s all window dressing and after a while you ignore it all. I’d much rather get meaningful information from an NPC’s actions than Korean style combat.
Melamber said:I totally understand people wanting to see their attacks have a visual impact on the target but honestly given the size of the team and the other things they need to get right this shouldn’t be something they focus on heavily before launch. Animations can be added gradually over time. As long as they movements of the PCs and NPC’s look decent I don’t need there to be a precise correlation between the two.
I think it was DAoC that had created animations that would match with such thinks like Dodge, Block, Riposte, Parry and while initially it looked cool, if you closely followed the combat log you realized that the result of the attack was calculated before the attack itself was made. A caster would click a spell icon and right then, before animations even starts the server already determined if the target would dodge, block or resist. If you turned on timestamps you would actually see the message of the result before the NPC would actually react.
BamBam said: I always liked the partical effects from Eq the flowing colors in the air with a modern take on it. As for meele combat I like fast animations and I also like gore, like blood trace or some other indication that you just jammed ur dagger in the spine of your foe.. Server lag and CPU usage are NOT a concern of mine it's 2018 prolly 2020 at realease, we all will have 1080 graficcards and 100+ megabit connection pls let us have some fun and some flash in Pantheon it has to look good.. Ofc with some limits I do not like the Korean mmo style at all, that's just flashy to be flashy.
Couple of things:
1) Partical effects are managed client side. The only thing the server is doing is sending a few kb over to tell your client to show a certain thing. It's probably less data than is required to print the text in chat that says you hit for x damage. Server lag shouldnt be an issue. Client connection latency could potentially be an issue, but that would impact all interactions between you and the server, not just particle effects, and it would just slow your clients reaction to things down. Not bog down your system or the server.
2) Don't assume the technology level people have available. I'm an IT professional and I don't have financial constraints. However, I do live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere, and 100+ mb connection speeds are not an option. I'm paying a ton to squeek out 20mb. And it's line of sight using microwave, so there are other limitations and considerations due to that.
That aside, and as I've already said, for my personal taste I'd much rather the combat be tactical enough that a bunch of "flash" on the screen is nothing more than a distraction, preventing me seeing what's actually important.
Feyshtey said:... 1) Partical effects are managed client side. ...
And thank Brell that's the case. In EQ1 TLP today, even just having "own group" particle effects enabled, at the highest particle density and opacity, it's like a non-stop 1969 disco fever stream.
It's even worse in a raid. And with bard songs. And clickies. And procs. It's not an exaggeration to say there were times when I couldn't see the target, in EQ1 raiding, due to the particle effects, when up close and personal (melee).
Personally, for particle effects, I end up turning, it all down to lowest, and me only, just to save my retinas from siezure-inducing flash & color overload.
Not entirely sure on how difficult it would be to rig up, but I would love to see the humanoid characters use actual human motions via motiontracking.
By this I mean get an actual person to suit up with ball-suit thing and then map out how they move as they go through different attack forms with different items. There is nothing more awkward to me than seeing a character who either stands (combat-state) or attacks in a manner that is just impossible to physically mimic, not because we are not flexible enough, but simply because bones and joints do not bend that way.
Bonus points if the person creating the moves actually knows how to use ancient weapons.
Irriaden said:+1 Akilae, as an Enc I don't want easy mode neon signs...I want groupmates who pay attention and can assist the tank. Also, keeping track of mez duration is the job of the person playing the Enc, not the UI.
-1. I strongly disagree. The job of the animations and UI are to provide realism and information to the player. The CC status of a mob is absolutely something that players should get information about, and I trust that Pantheon will do it in a smart way that isn't distracting or immersion breaking (beyond what is expected for a UI). For example, a mezed humanoid character could have a specific animation where they appear to be dazed, and there could be a specific animation that plays when the mez is wearing off (such as shaking their head). CC status effects should also have a debuff icon that flashes as it's about to wear off.
I don't buy hiding basic information from players to cater to masochistic, egotistical, "back in my day" attitudes of old-school EQ enchanters.
