CanadinaXegony said:The assumption I read here is "everyone here is swimming in money" not true. And 15 bucks for 30 to 31 days of entering the game and playing many, many hours ..as opposed to going to a bar (50 to 100 bucks) or going to a movie (20 to 30 bucks for a few hours) is a pretty cheap form of entertainment. If you are paying for cash shop items you are paying much more than that 15 bucks a month..."free to play" isn't at all free to play...its a rip off marketting tool that too many people have fallen for over the years.
1. Lots of folk avoid going to bars for the express reason that it's expensive. (Also, many people don't like bars in general. xD)
2. Early bird pricing, man! When my husband go to a movie, we pay $10-11 total for two tickets. :) We don't go to the movies often, though, because money doesn't grow on trees.
Your assumption is that everyone is spending all this money on various things, when the truth is lots of people deliberately aren't spending lots of money because just don't have lots of money to spend. Yeah, we allow ourselves a small budget for MMO subscriptions because it's great entertainment at a low per-hour price, but if that monthly sub cost went up? That'd price us right out of it.
CanadinaXegony said:
The assumption I read here is "everyone here is swimming in money" not true. And 15 bucks for 30 to 31 days of entering the game and playing many, many hours ..as opposed to going to a bar (50 to 100 bucks) or going to a movie (20 to 30 bucks for a few hours) is a pretty cheap form of entertainment. If you are paying for cash shop items you are paying much more than that 15 bucks a month..."free to play" isn't at all free to play...its a rip off marketting tool that too many people have fallen for over the years.
Cana
I'm sorry you misread my comment. I didn't say that.
Naunet said:CanadinaXegony said:The assumption I read here is "everyone here is swimming in money" not true. And 15 bucks for 30 to 31 days of entering the game and playing many, many hours ..as opposed to going to a bar (50 to 100 bucks) or going to a movie (20 to 30 bucks for a few hours) is a pretty cheap form of entertainment. If you are paying for cash shop items you are paying much more than that 15 bucks a month..."free to play" isn't at all free to play...its a rip off marketting tool that too many people have fallen for over the years.1. Lots of folk avoid going to bars for the express reason that it's expensive. (Also, many people don't like bars in general. xD)
2. Early bird pricing, man! When my husband go to a movie, we pay $10-11 total for two tickets. :) We don't go to the movies often, though, because money doesn't grow on trees.
Your assumption is that everyone is spending all this money on various things, when the truth is lots of people deliberately aren't spending lots of money because just don't have lots of money to spend. Yeah, we allow ourselves a small budget for MMO subscriptions because it's great entertainment at a low per-hour price, but if that monthly sub cost went up? That'd price us right out of it.
Indeed that's why I would rather spend my money on a monthly sub to a game. Money definitely doesn't fall out of trees, I'm retired and have to watch my budget. lol How about those football games, people do spend money on that..or the sports guys wouldn't get paid. I have played the so called free to play games...they end up costing you an arm and a leg when you're done..gotta have those shinies. :P Old fashioned sub is pretty much one of the cheaper forms of entertainment..and if you are ingame every day, you've gotten your money's worth. Plus that bonus of making friends, joining guilds, gaming together. :) And if you're happy with the game, you can end up spending years there. :) We have "cheap Tuesdays" for movies here in Canada, no idea if that is the same in the States.
Cana
This video pretty much explains FTP games.
Naunet said:CanadinaXegony said:The assumption I read here is "everyone here is swimming in money" not true. And 15 bucks for 30 to 31 days of entering the game and playing many, many hours ..as opposed to going to a bar (50 to 100 bucks) or going to a movie (20 to 30 bucks for a few hours) is a pretty cheap form of entertainment. If you are paying for cash shop items you are paying much more than that 15 bucks a month..."free to play" isn't at all free to play...its a rip off marketting tool that too many people have fallen for over the years.1. Lots of folk avoid going to bars for the express reason that it's expensive. (Also, many people don't like bars in general. xD)
2. Early bird pricing, man! When my husband go to a movie, we pay $10-11 total for two tickets. :) We don't go to the movies often, though, because money doesn't grow on trees.
Your assumption is that everyone is spending all this money on various things, when the truth is lots of people deliberately aren't spending lots of money because just don't have lots of money to spend. Yeah, we allow ourselves a small budget for MMO subscriptions because it's great entertainment at a low per-hour price, but if that monthly sub cost went up? That'd price us right out of it.
Well, that's unfortunate. But VR isnt creating a charity organization either. They are spending a lot of money and regardless how much they may or may not be targeting a niche market, they must make a profit. And they have a very specific experience in mind for their players that doesn't jive well (if at all) with FTP or microtransactions.
If you or anyone is unable or unwilling to pay for a particular form of entertaiment, then that's pretty much the end of the conversation. Lobbying for any entertainment company to give things away for free really doesn't make any sense to me at all. This is a luxury, not a staple required for life.
As others have said in this thread, a small, monthly, subscription fee of ~$20.00 USD is an incredible bargain for some excellent entertainment compared to so many other real world examples. If you love playing MMO's (traditional or otherwise), it's very hard to believe one would disagree with this. The wealth gained in the experience of friendships, cooperation, and teamwork are worth far more than your daily latte (or whatever).
I also fully expect to pay for expansions in addtion to the basic game subscription and I have no problem with that. But I would very much like to see FTP, microtransactions, and inappropriate cash shops be left to the plethora of other game titles that are out there.
Feyshtey said:If you have been following the conversation, you know that Naunet is not "lobbying for any entertainment company to give things away for free". Naunet already said that they are willing to pay the standard MMO subscription price which is $14.99 per month. VR themselves have already said to expect "industry standard" pricing in this regard. The conversation in this thread for some reason, however, turned into people saying they want the subscription price to be even higher. If they are really that eager to fork over money, they can buy multiple copies of the game and maintain multiple subscriptions if they so desire.Naunet said:CanadinaXegony said:The assumption I read here is "everyone here is swimming in money" not true. And 15 bucks for 30 to 31 days of entering the game and playing many, many hours ..as opposed to going to a bar (50 to 100 bucks) or going to a movie (20 to 30 bucks for a few hours) is a pretty cheap form of entertainment. If you are paying for cash shop items you are paying much more than that 15 bucks a month..."free to play" isn't at all free to play...its a rip off marketting tool that too many people have fallen for over the years.1. Lots of folk avoid going to bars for the express reason that it's expensive. (Also, many people don't like bars in general. xD)
2. Early bird pricing, man! When my husband go to a movie, we pay $10-11 total for two tickets. :) We don't go to the movies often, though, because money doesn't grow on trees.
Your assumption is that everyone is spending all this money on various things, when the truth is lots of people deliberately aren't spending lots of money because just don't have lots of money to spend. Yeah, we allow ourselves a small budget for MMO subscriptions because it's great entertainment at a low per-hour price, but if that monthly sub cost went up? That'd price us right out of it.
Well, that's unfortunate. But VR isnt creating a charity organization either. They are spending a lot of money and regardless how much they may or may not be targeting a niche market, they must make a profit. And they have a very specific experience in mind for their players that doesn't jive well (if at all) with FTP or microtransactions.
If you or anyone is unable or unwilling to pay for a particular form of entertaiment, then that's pretty much the end of the conversation. Lobbying for any entertainment company to give things away for free really doesn't make any sense to me at all. This is a luxury, not a staple required for life.
Reichsritter said:If you have been following the conversation, you know that Naunet is not "lobbying for any entertainment company to give things away for free". Naunet already said that they are willing to pay the standard MMO subscription price which is $14.99 per month. VR themselves have already said to expect "industry standard" pricing in this regard. The conversation in this thread for some reason, however, turned into people saying they want the subscription price to be even higher. If they are really that eager to fork over money, they can buy multiple copies of the game and maintain multiple subscriptions if they so desire.
Many, perhaps most, already have.
Feyshtey said:Good for them. Then they can keep upping their pledges and set aside money to maintain multiple subscriptions (even for accounts they won't use) when the game goes live. Those that are eager to pay as much as possible per month should keep emptying their bank accounts until they feel they have given VR enough money to feel good about themselves. Perhaps even a tithe is in order for them? Meanwhile, most of us will stick to paying $14.99 a month because we don't worship corporations.Reichsritter said:If you have been following the conversation, you know that Naunet is not "lobbying for any entertainment company to give things away for free". Naunet already said that they are willing to pay the standard MMO subscription price which is $14.99 per month. VR themselves have already said to expect "industry standard" pricing in this regard. The conversation in this thread for some reason, however, turned into people saying they want the subscription price to be even higher. If they are really that eager to fork over money, they can buy multiple copies of the game and maintain multiple subscriptions if they so desire.
Many, perhaps most, already have.
Reichsritter said:Good for them. Then they can keep upping their pledges and set aside money to maintain multiple subscriptions (even for accounts they won't use) when the game goes live. Those that are eager to pay as much as possible per month should keep emptying their bank accounts until they feel they have given VR enough money to feel good about themselves. Perhaps even a tithe is in order for them? Meanwhile, most of us will stick to paying $14.99 a month because we don't worship corporations.
You essentially accused me of a strawman argument, going to an extreme of FTP when people were really suggesting that they pay a standard $15/month. (That was not my intent, but I see how it could be read that way.) Now you're doing exactly the same by suggesting that people willing to pay a little more if that's what it takes for the game to be viable and not be FTP, are actually proposing they fork over hundreds of dollars a month or something.
Look, if $5/month will break your bank then you shouldn't be spending $15/month on a game to begin with. If $20/month (if that's what is required for the game to launch and survive for years to come) is more than you think the game is worth to you, personally, so be it.
Feyshtey said:Look, if $5/month will break your bank then you shouldn't be spending $15/month on a game to begin with. If $20/month (if that's what is required for the game to launch and survive for years to come) is more than you think the game is worth to you, personally, so be it.
I fully agree.
I've been wanting to say that for a couple pages now. :)
Feyshtey said:Reichsritter said:Good for them. Then they can keep upping their pledges and set aside money to maintain multiple subscriptions (even for accounts they won't use) when the game goes live. Those that are eager to pay as much as possible per month should keep emptying their bank accounts until they feel they have given VR enough money to feel good about themselves. Perhaps even a tithe is in order for them? Meanwhile, most of us will stick to paying $14.99 a month because we don't worship corporations.
You essentially accused me of a strawman argument, going to an extreme of FTP when people were really suggesting that they pay a standard $15/month. (That was not my intent, but I see how it could be read that way.) Now you're doing exactly the same by suggesting that people willing to pay a little more if that's what it takes for the game to be viable and not be FTP, are actually proposing they fork over hundreds of dollars a month or something.
Look, if $5/month will break your bank then you shouldn't be spending $15/month on a game to begin with. If $20/month (if that's what is required for the game to launch and survive for years to come) is more than you think the game is worth to you, personally, so be it.
I saw $20 and $25 suggested in this thread. It's not about being broke due to spending $5 or $10 extra a month. You could make the same stupid argument with any other monthly payment in existence, be it Amazon, Netflix, your electric bill, or whatever. We pay X amount per month, but why not pay more!?!? Surely you value the service? What, would a couple extra dollars a month break you or something? That **** would add up fast.
The point is that it is generally agreed upon within the industry that an MMO subscription is valued at $15 a month. VR has said to expect as much. So why, then, are people begging to pay more in this thread? Well, perhaps because they consider this MMO to be worth more than all other MMOs in history. Well, that's their prerogative, but the market would surely tell them otherwise. However, if they feel strongly about it, they can pay extra through additional subscriptions or by upping their pledge. Because I guarantee $15 a month is what this game will cost.
Reichsritter said:Feyshtey said:Reichsritter said:Good for them. Then they can keep upping their pledges and set aside money to maintain multiple subscriptions (even for accounts they won't use) when the game goes live. Those that are eager to pay as much as possible per month should keep emptying their bank accounts until they feel they have given VR enough money to feel good about themselves. Perhaps even a tithe is in order for them? Meanwhile, most of us will stick to paying $14.99 a month because we don't worship corporations.
You essentially accused me of a strawman argument, going to an extreme of FTP when people were really suggesting that they pay a standard $15/month. (That was not my intent, but I see how it could be read that way.) Now you're doing exactly the same by suggesting that people willing to pay a little more if that's what it takes for the game to be viable and not be FTP, are actually proposing they fork over hundreds of dollars a month or something.
Look, if $5/month will break your bank then you shouldn't be spending $15/month on a game to begin with. If $20/month (if that's what is required for the game to launch and survive for years to come) is more than you think the game is worth to you, personally, so be it.
I saw $20 and $25 suggested in this thread. It's not about being broke due to spending $5 or $10 extra a month. You could make the same stupid argument with any other monthly payment in existence, be it Amazon, Netflix, your electric bill, or whatever. We pay X amount per month, but why not pay more!?!? Surely you value the service? What, would a couple extra dollars a month break you or something? That **** would add up fast.
The point is that it is generally agreed upon within the industry that an MMO subscription is valued at $15 a month. VR has said to expect as much. So why, then, are people begging to pay more in this thread? Well, perhaps because they consider this MMO to be worth more than all other MMOs in history. Well, that's their prerogative, but the market would surely tell them otherwise. However, if they feel strongly about it, they can pay extra through additional subscriptions or by upping their pledge. Because I guarantee $15 a month is what this game will cost.
I don't see *ANYONE* "begging to pay more". What I see is people saying, "I'd be willing to pay more." There is a rather large difference. To be honest, I think people would be willing to for a couple of reasons. One is because of the "value for your dollar" and the other is that they know that VR is a small "underfunded" development house. Not some giant like Sony or Blizzard.
That being said, yes, VR said that they would be charging the "accepted standard" and will be well enough funded at that rate to do what they want to do/need to do.
Reichsritter said:I saw $20 and $25 suggested in this thread. It's not about being broke due to spending $5 or $10 extra a month. You could make the same stupid argument with any other monthly payment in existence, be it Amazon, Netflix, your electric bill, or whatever. We pay X amount per month, but why not pay more!?!? Surely you value the service? What, would a couple extra dollars a month break you or something? That **** would add up fast.
The point is that it is generally agreed upon within the industry that an MMO subscription is valued at $15 a month. VR has said to expect as much. So why, then, are people begging to pay more in this thread? Well, perhaps because they consider this MMO to be worth more than all other MMOs in history. Well, that's their prerogative, but the market would surely tell them otherwise. However, if they feel strongly about it, they can pay extra through additional subscriptions or by upping their pledge. Because I guarantee $15 a month is what this game will cost.
If the choice is pay more, or not play, I'll pay more. I wont beg for it, but I'll pay it if that's what has to happen for the game to survive.
This doesnt seem like rocket science to me.
Kilsin said:Folks, Brad replied to this on page 2, we are not taking any feedback on this though, we iwll let you all know when the time is right but expect an industry standard price point: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2564/subscription-model/view/post_id/36783
"I've said all of this before but it does come up often, so I don't mind re-stating this when necessary:First, no F2P/pay-to-win/cash shops. Period.
We will either use the good old sub model, or possibly a modular model, where you pay for the game, then each expansion, etc. We're not ready to set that in stone.
As for what the sub would be, the plan is the traditional $15 a month. Yes, we have talked with each other and the community and I think a lot of players, assuming we do make a great game, would pay more. And maybe we do explore premium servers. It's all possible. But, in general, if we go subs, to play Pantheon after the trial period, it would be $15 a month."
MMORPG sub standard seems to have gone from 9.99 to 14.99/mo if I recall correctly. If it goes up to 19.99/mo or more, then that’s A-OK with me. :D
bryanleo9 said: We are willing to pay a subscription for a quality product. Free to play is a no go for probably 95% of the people posting here.
Industry standard is $15/month. There's no reason for you to encourage a company to dip into your pockets more than necessary. If you really want to throw more money at VR, then just pledge more or buy more copies of the game or whatever.
Most of the MMO's I've played recently, (thats not very many mind you since most of the MMO's these days bore me to death) are pay to play though, they have a free model but you only get all the content when you pay a monthly fee, the free model of the game is simply there to try and gain interest for more subs, this model might be ok but they have stated that it will be subscription based which I'm fine with and honestly it doesn't seem all that different, the free portion of these games are for people who aren't that serious about them anyways.
Heck I still pay a monthly fee when I feel like playing Anarchy Online, and when I don't I stop the payment and turn it back on again when I get the itch :P
I would gladly pay $20.00 a month for a good game. Sadly, I do not think a subscription only method will keep the game open. I, and many others, will pay a lot more than the monthly sub if there were a cash shop as well with house items/cosmetic items. Personally, and others I know, spent some where around $600 + a year on EQ2 when we played (and thats not a lot compared to others) on house items and our fashionquest.
I still feel strongly they will add one in because I sincerely believe a niche game like this can never survive on a sub only model and keep the quality we are expecting.
Even if the cash shop had housing only items that would help the company a ton. They could even feature player made furniture ETC. I don't say these things to start an arguement, I truly just want the game to succeed.
