Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Is the industry shift a good thing?

    • 1618 posts
    November 19, 2018 5:34 PM PST

    kreed99 said: I am with you on that one. Remakes upon remakes upon remakes. Hulk franchise, spiderman franchise. Even Disney is going full steam with live action remakes, but at least they know how to do it RIGHT. The point of the matter is doing a remake properly. It takes time to reimagibe something. Just simply repatching a server to an earlier rule set with current rules is idiotic. Leads to system abuses and ruins the fun. At least P99 has stayed true to the original as close as it could, but EQ TLP is a disaster. Its a shame really....

    It may be a disaster, but its an extremely profitable disaster.

    • 1921 posts
    November 20, 2018 8:53 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? ...

    None of them force grouping for advancement, so... I don't think anything about them. :)
    Seriously, that's the only distinguishing feature that matters in this context.  Do you need to group to get XP?  Not in any MMO I've played in the past 10-15 years.
    They're all single player games with optional/pointless global chat, where rep means nothing, and you can consume 95% of all the content in the game by yourself.

    Now, don't misunderstand, this model is -very- profitable.  But it's not why I play MMO's.  I play to perform my role, in a group, very well.  I've played games like SWTOR and WoW and LOTRO and GW2 and RIFT and all the rest.  Start at level 1, follow the dots until max level, consuming absolutely trivial content, because the largest paying demographic doesn't want a difficult game.  Case in point, fortnite.  Absolute trash in terms of both gameplay and social contact, and yet, over 50M players.  Yes, it's free, but most players play single player.  They don't rely on anyone else, and as a result, social toxicity in it's highest form.

    So, yep, agreed with others, any attempt on the part of "the industry" to go back in time is simply a veiled cash grab, in my opinion.  If "the industry" was interested in challenging group content required to level, we would have that. 
    That's not where the big easy money is.  The big easy money is, evidenced by history and currently, pandering to lazy socially toxic solo players.

    • 108 posts
    November 20, 2018 9:37 AM PST

    I believe the industry shift to older style games is a good thing. As for vanilla relaunches i personally am not on the band wagon. I would rather have a new world and new experience then going back to one i already experienced. Thats not to say when i get the mmo bug and their is nothing worth a dam on the market i havn't gone back to an older game that had a relaunch of an older version. I have gone back to DAOC, Everquest, Everquest 2 and DDO with perhaps the exception of DDO after we played for several months and the nostalgia is gone we leave.

    • 153 posts
    November 20, 2018 9:54 AM PST

    This shift is a great thing actually, I think in general most people dont look at the big picture or understand it. I'll do my best to explain a situation which some will understand and some wont simply because again they dont understand big picture thinking or they dont care about big picture thinking.

     

    So...

     

    Alot of games have belittled leveling aspects in games to the point where there really is no point in having them. Levels are easy to get, they really dont have any value for getting them ie abilities, life qualities. Heck in WoW it actually makes your character worse when you level......NOTHING CAN JUSTIFY THAT! Its bad design...its worse than bad design its almost kill yourself worthy, but hey they push it...anyways.

    Alot of games took the dungeons and dragons design and left of key parts of it. Like GW2 has no healers, ESO I dont think does either, its not an old design to have the trinity, its the only one that works, it creates a need for the person next to you which is invaluable, and if you dont believe that you are playing the wrong games, you dont get your way in a game that wasnt designed for your preference. That being said games cannot appeal to everyone and they shouldnt, to think they can is literally insane (sorry yes youre insane the end). 

    Alot of games turn to action combat vs strategic combat, this one is quite simple, some classes should be action based, some should be strategy, and some should be a combination of both, every class however shold not be, this is a class defining thing, In wow litereally every class is the same or has access to the exact same ability mechanic in some way shape or form, this is their idea of balance for a 1v1 world....not an MMO world, ie if a warlock is designed to kill a warrior, if the person playing the warlock is literally using his nose to peck his movements and abilities, should still be able to kill the warrior, and whoever is designed to kill the warlock should be doing so before he kills the warrior, that is balance in the mmorpg world my friends, not 1v1 situation. 

    So this turn is going to be a huge cash cow for VR, I really think you guys are going to consume the market within 4 years of release as long as you dont muck it up like history tends to do to things, just dont sell out this time, its heartbreaking

     

    • 145 posts
    November 20, 2018 1:03 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

     

    It's only temporary unfortunately. People are playing these games because they want to go back to the way games used to be. When they get into these they realize it just isn't the same. It's close but something is missing. That aww factor, that virginity to this or that.

    I love playing old EQ emulated servers, of all kinds. I just find it hard to stick with them like I did EQ the first time. I spent 7 or 8 years raiding in EQ. I couldn't do that today. For one I don't have time for it, but secondly there isn't enough grindy people out there. It's hard to find a group of people who just want to sit in PoInnovation and grind, or PoTactics, or wherever it may be. We used to grind for hours in a day not for a drop, but for exp. People don't do that anymore. And I think that part of the community missing is what I miss the most. Those interactions and getting to hang out with friends/guildies. I also think the people playing these games have evolved. You have different generations of players now. Not just the 1. Younger people look at things totally different than say someone like me. I liked the challenged. I liked getting kicked in the teeth while I was down, I liked it being really hard figuring something out. I was in a guild in EQ1 that refused to use other guilds' tactics because we liked to figure it out ourselves. Took us a little longer but it made the kill so much more meaningful.


    This post was edited by Moloka at November 20, 2018 1:10 PM PST
    • 752 posts
    November 20, 2018 5:53 PM PST
    Oh we all know too well how profitable nostalgia and remakes can be in this day and age. And thats fine. But when someone is doing it as a simple cash grab it grinds my gears. I respect those that do a remake at a risk. Or take years to complete one worthwhile. I also respect an online game’s need to continue growing and expanding.

    I will admit EQ doing TLP was probably the best thing they could have done without seeming desperate. Simple concept. And players continually have goals to meet.

    I guess my concern with remakes is that they are done well. We know originals will never be exactly the same because our perceptions have changed. I still feel like oreos were bigger when i was younger, but they probably havent changed much.

    I feel like VR is doing the right thing and making the true spiritual remake of EQ and taking its time to do so. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be done right? Thats the goal. Will is be the EQ killer. No. People will still log onto EQ until they turn off the servers.
    • 9 posts
    November 21, 2018 8:23 PM PST

    I love how pantheon is reliving the classic MMO but with some really cool modern twists to it, without those the game would not be a hit in wich im talking about the acclimation perception systems graphics the whole thing is a classic game turned up full ball with modern needs and unlike the wow classic there bringing out this world has never been done or seen before there will be truly world firsts and new alliances new bosses and just in general a whole new world we never seen before to explore everything new in wich will make this a superior game in my personal opinion.

    • 3016 posts
    November 22, 2018 12:15 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

     

    My first thought is that "they" are worried about competition from VR and Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.  :D

     

    Cana

    • 89 posts
    November 22, 2018 12:45 PM PST

    The RIFT reboot was a huge disappointment for me.  Level-capping the current gameplay is just a blatant cash-grab...

     

    WoW classic looks to at least be doing some things right but adding in modern conveniences and tech changes to go cheap on the admin costs isn't impressing me.

     

    Never played old EQ or LotRo so can't say anything much about their attempts.

     

    Personally I like the older model where thinking mattered much more so than the modern twitch gameplay and time/effort were rewarded.