I think it's a positive that we're shifting back to older school design style games. Some of the best gameplay mechanics are from long ago. That old school flare with a new day twist is something this genre has been sorely lacking a long time.
On the subject of Vanilla servers. Everyone loves the first time launch of a new MMO. And if it's one that you make home, a vanilla server is a lot of fun if you want to retread some old stomping grounds. And they're always packed full of people so that helps too.
Well for one its a total nostalgia trip that all game companies that have an established base knows will make money. It will make people come back to re-experience old memories and such but its also a short term thing. People will come back and do all the fun stuff they once did and go back to what they were doing. I think its a good move sure but to me its just a reminder that a lot of games no matter the brand realize they can stray off the path a bit. Players leave for reasons no matter which way you go and this brings them back temporarily.
Saying that, if you were to give an example like Everquest which has been private server'd to oblivion and essentially "reheated" so many times it tells me that this specific niche game has something that draws players back to restart over and over and over and thats something to look into. What brings these players back and especially recreate from SCRATCH over and over again? Is it the gameplay? Is it the classes? Is it the farming items?
I will say that for me, in my own opinion, farming items as they were extremely unique in Everquest is what made that game essentially special to my gaming career. I know World of Warcraft and practically every other game out there has the greens "of the bear" type items and just mixes up the stats and at some point in the game you get to a point where you know specific items. But, in Everquest, any items that had any stats on it were known by name by almost every single player because they were so specifically unique down to the T. THAT is what made me crave that gameplay.
Not sure that what we see is an industry shift,
we see an attempt to monetise nostalgia to squeeze more profit from a dead game.
"progression servers" and "vanilla servers" are not industry shift. (the only shift is the mobile market)
few indy games with niche audience are not industry shift. (what do we have? legends of Aria? , camelot unchained? pantheon?...)
I have played Nostalrius, it was fun for six months of leveling and gearing up to pre-raid, then the raid progress is the same boredom as in every other expansion.
people will leave progression servers after ~1 year.
Obviously almost all of us like having older school games - why else would we *be* here. I won't even address that part of it.
I am happy about how there is at least some swing back to the subscription model. Some games in development are planning on using it (I know ESO was very firmly in this camp and switched right after release so nothing is guaranteed). Some of the nostalgia/progression releases like LOTRO's "legendary" servers require subscription. I don't think we will go back to where we used to be, but I see at least a little more subscription and fewer keys and lootboxes in the future.
I'm not sure that we're seeing an industry shift either. I think there's a recognition on the part of major studios that after years of expansions, level increases, and planned content obsolescence, their flagship games have lost something in translation - and that by allowing players to "start over", it will help retain subscribers for longer. So in that sense, it's a good thing. However, I don't know that we've really seen fundamental changes yet in terms of how games are developed and maintained. They still don't make em like they used to.
What I want to see from the industry is people designing games again that are built with long-term viability in mind - and that's going to mean moving away from the "traditional" accelerated level/gear treadmill, slowing players down somewhat, and building far more richer experiences that are specifically designed to last much longer and generate ongoing value for players. That doesn't mean I expect all games to go full-on sandbox, but I do think that there needs to be an emphasis on replay value and dynamic content instead of scripted experiences and linear storytelling.
So far, we haven't seen that - but then again, this "shift" might be just getting started. I'm not sure I'll really be convinced there's a shift happening though until I see multiple new MMOs being released that really do. I think for that to happen one of the current crop of indy MMOs (like Pantheon) is going to have to launch and do very well financially. A torch to light the way for others.
Nephele said:I'm not sure that we're seeing an industry shift either. I think there's a recognition on the part of major studios that after years of expansions, level increases, and planned content obsolescence, their flagship games have lost something in translation - and that by allowing players to "start over", it will help retain subscribers for longer. So in that sense, it's a good thing. However, I don't know that we've really seen fundamental changes yet in terms of how games are developed and maintained. They still don't make em like they used to.
To build on that I think the game developers are starting to realize once you have a game that is X years old after X amount of expansions how likely is someone going to want to play from level 1 to level 120. I mean, that is a long freaking way. Every game developer that has released an expansion has been expected to release an expansion that has a level increase because players tend to see power come from the advancement of levels which usually brings more abilities with greater potency. This leads to level inflation and possibly at the expense of real content.
I love the idea of it. However, what people will find out is that it will never be the same, nor can you recapture what most are trying to. I learned this the hard way, going back to all the games I've gone back to over the years. The reason being is that, the new generation of gamers have grown up in a world where gaming can be a career. They've been able to stand on the shoulders of giants and are much better gamers than we were at their age. And the old generation of gamers have become much much better gamers than we were when these old games were released. Add that to the fact we have access to much more information for virtually any game... even going back, everyone is far better armed and we know what to do now. This makes a lot of old school content for gamers, who were not the same caliber as gamers today, very trivial.
It’s not just a good thing - it’s a VERY good thing.
Heh this reminds me of older bands regrouping now. I imagine this is happening because as I often hear - modern, overly commercialized music is utter crap.
I imagine many people feel the same is true with mmo’s. This return is a good thing because it will allow us to pick up where we left off and afford us the opportunity to take mmo’s in the alternate direction that many of us had envisioned in the first place!
Kilsin said:What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
In all honesty, I can't judge whether or not this shift is a good thing or not. Being near ground zero for most, if not all of the perceived shift, I still personally believe its a good thing and hope it helps purge the gaming industry of the current "cash grab" mentality. That said, I think the real question that needs to be answered is - What choice was there? Or put in another way, What's the alternative? The MMO industry is and has been in its death throes, and had it remained on the same path it would have resulted in the demise of the genre (and frankly it still may - the development cycle of these games are so long that we simply won't know until the eleventh hour). I believe this shift is out of pure necessity, there's just simply nothing left to lose. For the sports fans among us, It's time to pull the goaltender because the genre is down late in the 3rd period.
I don't want to be so pessimistic as to say its too late to be salvaged (as I am in some of our current IRL global issues /apologize), but the writing is certainly on the wall. I'm just thankful that companies like VR, and many others, had the stones to act against the established meta in an attempt to right the ship. And this extends into other genres too. Here's to hoping we still have a fighting chance /cheers.
I'm not clear on what industry shift is being referred to.
As others have said there are a few vanilla server relaunches, which in my opinion is a good thing for multiple reasons. 1) It reinvites people that play a game that they might not otherwise try because they are aware that starting well after initial release alters the game experience so much that it might not be all that desirable. 2) It allows people to experience what the game was like before the convenience features started to be added, and gives them a chance to evaluate the now/then of the experience. 3) It allows a new revenue stream to the developer that might just keep their product online for a bit longer instead of fading to the MMO history books. (Although I disagree that it's a cheap/easy thing to do if done well.)
As far as the MMO industry, there appear to be few studios willing to take the risk of going back old-school. As a percentage the number of studios doing so is quite small, so I don't know that it could be considered an indsutry shift. Perhaps rather a fledgling spinoff?
In a more broad sense however there does seem to be a strong groundswell of gamer push back against some of the major studios, and do a degree it might be starting to impact the direction in which studios are moving. The controversy of Star Wars Battlegrounds and Battlefront (both EA titles) was for many a line in the sand against the more insidious monetization practices. More recently the frustration of gamers with the alteration of the core Fallout franchise with news that the game will be a multi-player/sandbox/basebuilding game rather than the beloved single-player campaign game. It'll be interesting to see how that impacts the projected sales moving forward. It'll be even more interesting if Bathesda decides to go that same route with Elder Scrolls VI, and they may well find a full-scale revolt and boycott.
There are a multitude of situations much like these that are getting attention industry-wide.
At its base all of these have a commonality: Gamers develop a love of a certain type of gameplay or a certain intellectual property, and with that they develop an expectation of the future designs. Studios seem all too willing to deviate dramatically from those expectations, and more often than not it seems rooted in gaining more money. Some of the most beloved franchises are diving in with both feet, and more and more gamers are voting with their own to travel to alternatives. The studios are no longer satisfied with a release that gains 100% profit. They want that and a year-over-year revenue stream raking in 500% profit over time. While the volume of gamers world-wide continues to grow, a smaller percentage of gamers seem to be biting at the shiney lure. Industry sees profits increasing because of the volume, but fail to recognize the growing alienation and discontent because they are managing by spreadsheet. Profits grow, therefor we must be right. I believe however the pendulum will swing back, and the studios positioned to take advantage of that by truly focusing on the game experience will profit greatly.
Kilsin said:What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
I'm in support of the shift back to the older mentality towards games where earning something, anything, actually takes effort and time and the onus is on the player to figure out the world around them in order to succeed.
EDIT: I look to CCP Games' EVE Online as a shining example of a company sticking with (and prospering) the mindset that a difficult game where the players struggle can attract and keep a very viable community of players. EVE Online has seen multiple instances where mechanics once enjoyed by players were altered to such a degree that it dramatically increased the difficulty of some player activities (jump fatigue as a prime example) to ensure the long term success of the game. Sure, players complained initially but it was quickly seen as a change for the better.
Kilsin said:What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
I disagree that there's any kind of "industry shift". Mostly I see games that have been around for a while taking advantage of nostalgia - as well as the lure of being able to "start fresh" on an equal footing with everyone - by launching classic or progression servers. There are a few games angling for "old school" (whatever that means to various people), but as a whole they're a pretty small proportion of the overall MMO market.
If there's any "industry shift", it's away from MMOs, and most of the MMOs that are in development are focusing on PvP. As someone who pretty much exclusively plays MMOs (with only a couple grudging exceptions), this is sad.
While i do enjoy the fact that they are bringing back original games like Vanilla WoW and EQ TLP servers. The biggest issue is that they still arent the original game. People that tend to flock to these games are in it to Min/Max and want to be top tier in a week and make server firsts. People progress so quickly they lose sight of the game to begin with. There is rarely anything new to keep them fascinated. It just ends up being a troll fest from boredom. There is no community. The fun is very fleeting.
What do you think about the industry's recent shift back to older school games and vanilla re-launches/servers? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Honestly...I see VR stirred the hornets nest with this new game called Pantheon...and greedy money people from other games started making calls trying to figure out how they can steal players without spending to much money making a brand new game and just relaunching older-vanilla version of their games. I would guess these forums are being studied in detailed by your competition and people are scrambling...
I'm not particularly interested in games like vanilla WoW which seek to reproduce a specific point in time of a video game's history. I have been there and done that. I'd be slightly interested in vanilla WoW if they planned to develop additional content following the older design philosophy much in the same way that Old School RuneScape has, but they don't seem to want to go down that route. And even if they did, I still wouldn't play it. Pantheon is the next MMO I will be playing and it is my last hope for the genre.
I can't really speak of whether it is an industry shift, but there definietly had been a shift away from the table-top dice game nuances of the RPG genre, to more of a Multi-player arcade type game.
So I will be happy to see a shift back towards the simpler and more fundamentals of the genre.
I don't know if there is a full industry shift, but if there is I really dislike it.
Much like the film industry before it, it would seem the gaming world is becoming "plagued" by remakes/remasters or companies capitalizing on nostalgia. Blizzard of late seems very intent to relive the past instead of push on to the future, which personally seems indicative of them running out of ideas or at the very least being far more interested in pursuing easy guaranteed profit. "Don't you guys have phones??"
I don't need (or want) to relive old classics with new graphics or minor additions when I can just go play the old.
