GoofyWarriorGuy said:I liked the Ogre's and Halfling pictures. Not too keen on the Elves look atm. The bodies are fine, but the Male and Females look like they have exactly the same face and hair (just different colour). But I am willing to accept this may just be the lighting, shading, angle, etc... so
Yeah Elves reminded me of Daybreaks models from Landmark, kinda like plastic. That was my first thought but I'm not that too critical of char models as I grew up on EQ1 and love the old Ogre models.
Sup KILSIN!!
Trasak said:The models look pretty good. A nice realistic and understated style rather than over blown perfection with a side order sexual objectification that we see in most games. I would not be worried about the plastified look yet as overlaying the light shaders is one of those things that takes a ton of small tweaks as different hardware platforms are tested.
Oh absolutely. I'm glad others feel this way too about the models. The visual style is spot on.
Regarding the plastic look, speficially the elves in the November newsletter; I do think they can be corrected with lighting. I say that because the ogres do not have that sheen to them. The lighting for the ogres looks fantastic.
Kilsin said:Now that the November Newsletter has dropped, what do you think about the new character models? Is there anything else that caught your eye? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Never played an ogre. But I have to say, those ogres are looking good. As for what caught my attention, I was glad to hear more about the Perception system. That's one that I've been curious to know more about because I can think of a truckload of ways that system could potentially be used to enhance gameplay not just through questing and lore, but maybe even adapted/integrated to some extent for classes like say the Dungeoneering, Arcana, and religious type reading skills used in RPG games like D&D. That could add a great deal to the world.
I will agree with Shea though, the elves could maybe use another pass. ~ducks~
It seems you all have nailed Ogres! They're much more interesting to me now than before - more monstrous-looking. Bravo!
I quite like the Elves too - Tolkien is the highest elf standard for me, and these seem like great representations of that vision. Perhaps some slightly more delicate features somewhere in the face, but that's very subtle - they look excellent now, and I'm very glad to see them that way. The halfling on the left has the plastic doll-like face, but that seems to be a quirk of the lighting in that environment and, obviously, pre-shaders, etc. The general style is very cool.
I also really appreciated the overview of the perception system. I'm most excited by the system of checks the game makes before presenting insights - that's what we wanted! So players will have different experiences. So well done, VR! You all continue to demonstrate your incredible talent.
Thank you!
Well I have read everyones statements and here are my opinions on the recent racial pixx...
Ogre as many have said looks great. But... I would challenge anyone who said that to answer this... Do they look like an OGRE? I say nay, pretty to look at yes, polished sure. Ogres??? nope, not at all. Half Orcs would be a better racial description. Even Shrek whos a horrible 3xample of an Ogre looks more Ogre-esc to me. Ogres should be BIG, BURLY, and SKEERY.
Ogres werent broken, they looked the part. They were actually freakin amazing. Totally understood Skar revamp and ya all explained why and it made total sense. Why are you ditching loads of hours=money retooling gr8 character models.
Redo the gnomes if anything, they look like bees. Big ol hive of bees, when looked at are pretty much all the same with very few deviations.
Halflings, why are they trying so hard to make them look like Peter Pans lost boys? Halflings should be more like Frodo.. He was slender and youngish looking with experienced features of aging and toughness, yet agile and THEM FOOTS! GOTTA have them foots!!
Elves just look like pointy-eared Asians.. should be taller and slender in my opinion. Dont get caught up in the Asians statement, because they shouldnt closely resemble ANY of our Earthly races, have customization to have s,anty or wide eyes sure. Elves just have a certain LOOK about them, not captured here or many other games really well. So ya asked and this is just how I see things.
Everyone loves the Ogres. Of course. They look cool and have the most character in their faces simply because, they should. The other two races are nothing like an Ogre. Therefore should look nothing like them. They're either Childlike or Ageless. One rule in art when drawing or modelling a woman is that for ever wrinkle line you add to a womans face you age her 5-10 years. So in the case of the Halfing and the Elves it makes sense that they look smooth in complexion. Also remember there will be other face types to choose from and these are only two for each race.
The plastic look on the elves someone mentioned is merely a skin shader tweak in substance painter. Remember this is still a work in progress plus they may like that look. Beauty is in the eye and all that. Art is severly subjective since we judge with our eyes and everyone these days fancies themselves an artist.
Good job guys. Love the idea of perception, but personally I'm looking forward to your animation update more.
Ws the idea to eventually head to such level of realism/detail in the Player characters? if so, then I agree with most that Ogres look finished- although they were ok before. and Half elves look(pardon the pun) half way there and elves about a quarter way there.
If that is what you are going for then wow.
Ogres could stand to put on more weight I feel and maybe have alternating upper and lower fangs? to differentiate them from the more porcine orcs or both uppers, or maybe just one upper- with a choice at char creation as to right, left or center.- or choice of 6 spots on upper jaw for 2 fangs. buck-fanged orcs, hmm.
Half elves I think coulds stand to look a tad more human- like wider and prettier, cuningly prettier. Like Carmen to don Jose pretty. Qnd dirtier- but I dont know what you are going for. I get a Fagin/Artful dodger or baker street irregulars or little birdies vibe from halflings.
The elves I can kind of see as going more alien. smaller mouths, more larger pupil but striking hue to eye like more blue or green and little white maybe longer face. but this is just my opinion, something ancient yet refined and kinda creepy if you look at it too long but beautifull at the same time so you can't look away.
Ogres look fantastic, though really they strike me as more orc-ish than ogre. But from the screenshot at least, the textures are amazing.
I was VERY pleased to see y'all didn't shy away from long, wild hair with the halfling female. Also the feathers! Please let us customize the color of the feathers in char creation.
I also really liked the more southeast asian features of the elves - a good way to distinguish them and give this game some variety. Screw the haters!
A couple criticisms in the hair and skin textures. Hair (for especially the elves though slightly for the halflings as well) looks unnaturally shiny and flat - Bioware Hair, as I like to call it. Also the skin textures for both elf and halfling (though especially, again, the elves) looks very waxy. Hopefully these things get further passes for refining!
Flapp said:The elves: Don't look good. their eyes look odd, their faces don't look elven to me, they look more asian than anything. I really hope Elves get more updated looks...
There is no rule that says elves are restricted to European features... While the skin textures and hair need a lot of work on the elves, I don't think their more asian features should be considered a problem.
As Alexander stated being a fan of thinner but taller Ogres... Would be kool to have a slider to go from a thicker brute to a less thick, yet muscly model. And height from at least the size of a head taller than human to maybe 2 heads taller than human, maybe just a head and a half. Lol
Naunet said:Ogres look fantastic, though really they strike me as more orc-ish than ogre. But from the screenshot at least, the textures are amazing.
I was VERY pleased to see y'all didn't shy away from long, wild hair with the halfling female. Also the feathers! Please let us customize the color of the feathers in char creation.
I also really liked the more southeast asian features of the elves - a good way to distinguish them and give this game some variety. Screw the haters!
A couple criticisms in the hair and skin textures. Hair (for especially the elves though slightly for the halflings as well) looks unnaturally shiny and flat - Bioware Hair, as I like to call it. Also the skin textures for both elf and halfling (though especially, again, the elves) looks very waxy. Hopefully these things get further passes for refining!
Flapp said:The elves: Don't look good. their eyes look odd, their faces don't look elven to me, they look more asian than anything. I really hope Elves get more updated looks...There is no rule that says elves are restricted to European features... While the skin textures and hair need a lot of work on the elves, I don't think their more asian features should be considered a problem.
It seems that I am not alone in my thoughts.
vigilantee13 said:As Alexander stated being a fan of thinner but taller Ogres... Would be kool to have a slider to go from a thicker brute to a less thick, yet muscly model. And height from at least the size of a head taller than human to maybe 2 heads taller than human, maybe just a head and a half. Lol
This is where good character creation would really shine. I am hoping VR delivers with multiple body types to choose from, along with sliders for height, weight, bust, butt, and muscle definition.
Naunet said:vigilantee13 said:As Alexander stated being a fan of thinner but taller Ogres... Would be kool to have a slider to go from a thicker brute to a less thick, yet muscly model. And height from at least the size of a head taller than human to maybe 2 heads taller than human, maybe just a head and a half. LolThis is where good character creation would really shine. I am hoping VR delivers with multiple body types to choose from, along with sliders for height, weight, bust, butt, and muscle definition.
Totally Agree,
FYI seen many of your posts throughout the forums and we are on many topics, very like minded. Enjoy reading your feedback!
On my scale of things I care about in MMOs, what it looks like is near the bottom.
They looked great, in my opinion, but I have a very low bar / very low expectations. :)
Personally, I am more concerned about combat/gameplay/crafting loops, role/class uniqueness, co-operative combat methods, and similar game topics.
I hope a tremendous amount of time & effort aren't going into character creation/appearance, at the expense of a "sooner" launch timeline due to three continents of content being required.
Ogres are fine, but they were before as well... so Indifferent
Halfling's, those are halfling's? with pointed ear's? not feeling it.
and those others are Elves? Chinese elves? I may have to rethink playing the elf class. Not liking that at all. And the one on the left... is that female? If so then my wife is going to be really let down.
I'm not big fan of how close there trying to get to reality in these fantasy characters, there missing the mark in my opinion and hitting what many claim is the big reason NOT to go for realism, you will always fall short and look terrible in the process. These Elf models are showing that theory to be true.
Zorkon said:
I'm not big fan of how close there trying to get to reality in these fantasy characters, there missing the mark in my opinion and hitting what many claim is the big reason NOT to go for realism, you will always fall short and look terrible in the process. These Elf models are showing that theory to be true.
This has nothing to do with realism . Realistic means that a subject is truefully depicted , e.g that the artistic description (novel , picture) and the subject are almost identical . But here we are talking about fantasy creatures that do not exist . So there can't be any realistic - trueful - description of them . In that sharply strict sense no Elf model is realistic regardless of how it looks .
However there can be a kind of ersatz of realism for fantasy creatures which means that the description corresponds to an archetype of this fantasy creature . Then one only needs to agree what that archetype is and there may be a minority of different opinions . The majority would certainly agree that there are well established archetypes for many non existing fantasy creatures - dwarves , dragons , orcs , elves , ogres , hobbits ...
Finally I am fully with you in that I also do not like the Pantheon's elf models at all but for an exactly opposite reason . I do not like them because they are not realistic , e.g because they do not describe truefully an archetype of elves . It is not a matter of hair color or of pointy ears but of stature , attitude and majesty . For me a very realistic model of an elf was f.ex Thranduil as represented in the Hobbit movie . The Elf models in WoW and EQ were quite realistic too .
lutorin said:Zorkon said:
I'm not big fan of how close there trying to get to reality in these fantasy characters, there missing the mark in my opinion and hitting what many claim is the big reason NOT to go for realism, you will always fall short and look terrible in the process. These Elf models are showing that theory to be true.
This has nothing to do with realism . Realistic means that a subject is truefully depicted , e.g that the artistic description (novel , picture) and the subject are almost identical . But here we are talking about fantasy creatures that do not exist . So there can't be any realistic - trueful - description of them . In that sharply strict sense no Elf model is realistic regardless of how it looks .
However there can be a kind of ersatz of realism for fantasy creatures which means that the description corresponds to an archetype of this fantasy creature . Then one only needs to agree what that archetype is and there may be a minority of different opinions . The majority would certainly agree that there are well established archetypes for many non existing fantasy creatures - dwarves , dragons , orcs , elves , ogres , hobbits ...
Finally I am fully with you in that I also do not like the Pantheon's elf models at all but for an exactly opposite reason . I do not like them because they are not realistic , e.g because they do not describe truefully an archetype of elves . It is not a matter of hair color or of pointy ears but of stature , attitude and majesty . For me a very realistic model of an elf was f.ex Thranduil as represented in the Hobbit movie . The Elf models in WoW and EQ were quite realistic too .
Bad choice of words on my part. I think "Life-Like" would have worked better than "reality" or realism