Forums » General Guild Discussion

Guild leadership = job?

    • 28 posts
    October 3, 2018 9:09 AM PDT
    I've seen leaders get burnt out from excessive drama and poor management. I myself have been through it in eq2. If you are leader trying to deal with people's problems it will always become a job and you will sooner or later began to hate it. What I have found helps alot is have a good guild charter. Try to have broad to cover as many issues as you can think of. Another thing that helps is surround yourself with a good compliment of officers that can head some of the issues before they get to you. Drama is the biggest issue a leader will face. I have tried my best to keep drama at Bay but it still finds its way to you. Feel free to check out our charter.

    www.megaming.us />
    Thanks Necrohighlis Moreindum Est
  • October 3, 2018 9:11 AM PDT
    • 250 posts
    October 5, 2018 7:10 PM PDT

    Yes, guild leadership is a job. Hopefully one that someone enjoys if they are the one being the leader. The easiest way I've found to prevent major burnout is have more than one leader, have a council of officers and leaders who share some responsibilities and who specialize as well.

    Example: In EQ2, we had 4 leaders. One for each archtype - healer, caster, fighter, rogue. And then we had around 8 officers, plus or minus depending on circumstances. They had to be tested to be promoted to officer/leader status, but could step down at any time as needed. The officers were appointed/volunteered for some of the guild functions. We had some who helped organize group outings, some who arranged legendary quest runs, some who were in charge of lore/role play events, some who helped tend the banking/guild storage, some who were into crafting and helped organize our crafters and sales, some who were specifically great at mentoring and running with new recruits. Sometimes they changed jobs too, when they wanted a new challenge.

    We also have open communication within the inner circle and with the guild. Regular guild meetings and then posted "minutes" on the forums for anyone who could not make it. It seemed to prevent burnout and still make the in-game job fun. The leaders only interferred if they had to deal with disciplinary issues or if the officers asked for assistance. This allowed us more time to actually spend with our guildmates and bouce around, preventing "cliques" as much as possible. There were times when we did have small officer outings, though.

    • 1347 posts
    October 9, 2018 11:09 AM PDT

    wildenightwolf said:

    Yes, guild leadership is a job. Hopefully one that someone enjoys if they are the one being the leader. The easiest way I've found to prevent major burnout is have more than one leader, have a council of officers and leaders who share some responsibilities and who specialize as well.

    I've had the pleasure, and pain, of being a guild officer and/or raid leader in every guild in which I've been a member.  It is a job and people thinking about being an officer need to understand it requires time and effort to do properly. Guilds can succeed or fail wholly based upon the leadership.  Those who are only in it for themselves will find the guild soon filled with only themselves.  It is a thankless job but one which can have great rewards.

    Having enough of a support base of other like-minded officers is very important.  Duties and responsibilities should be clearly defined and expectations set.  This just does not apply to the leadership but also the members.  Each must put in the effort to support the whole.

    • 1196 posts
    October 11, 2018 9:47 AM PDT

    Guild leadership is absolutely a job.  Any guild whose leadership doesn't take it seriously is just setting itself up for frustration and drama over time.  Being a good guild leader is about keeping your guild motivated, ensuring that your members are getting what they need out of it, and importantly, about finding ways to get everyone to feel ownership of the guild's success.  If the guild leader is the only person working on these things, they'll burn out.  And if they're not working on these things, then the guild probably isn't really adding very much to the game for everyone in it.

    That doesn't mean that guild leadership can't be fun though.  I've been a guild leader for 20 years, and it's kind of like being a parent - it's a lot of hard work and sometimes it's frustrating, but when your guild achieves something awesome, the pride you feel makes it all worth it.  Whether that's downing a tough raid, or building a guild hall, or having a member complete an epic quest that everyone pitched in on, or even just running an awesome social event - you get that feeling like, "MY guild did this."  And it's an amazing feeling.

    The trick to not burning out is to make sure that others are just as invested in the success of the guild as you are.  You need to surround yourself with officers who care just as much as you do, and who will take initiative to fix problems and keep the guild running smoothly without you having to tell them.  There's other requirements for good officers too, like having good emotional intelligence and a broad perspective on the game, but if they don't have the right conviction and attitude none of that will matter one way or the other.  Beyond your officers, you really want to find ways to get your members excited and charged up.  Your role as a leader is to set the direction, establish the tone, and then keep everyone motivated - keep their eyes on the goals, whatever those are for your guild.

    Of course, lives change and people change.  There's been points in the last two decades when I've had to step back for a while for various reasons:  I've burned out on games, and needed to hand the reins over to someone else (for that game).  I've had life changes like moving across the country for a new job, and I've had to step back to handle those.  Heck, over the last few years, I've had to come to terms with how much time I spend in front of a computer and make a real effort to take more time out to take care of myself, so that I don't end up as a statistic.  All of that has made me take a long look at how I run my guilds, because the last thing I want is for my guild to fall apart because I meet a girl or something and have less time to manage it.

    But give up being a guild leader?  Nope.  I don't think it's in my DNA.  At least not until there's no more MMOs I want to play.  Even when I fail, I try to learn from it and do better next time.

     

    Since Necro started this thread off talking about having a good charter, I'll echo that.  It's important to set expectations so that you get the right people into your guild from the start.  I'm not talking about the right classes or the right levels or the right gear - but rather the right mindset and attitude.  If you're a raiding guild, you want people coming in with the expectation that raiding is what the guild is about and other stuff is lower priority.  If you're not a raiding guild, you really don't want people coming in with the expectation that you are.  Your goal when recruiting should always be to help people find the guild that's the best fit for them - and if that's your guild, awesome.  If it's not, both you and they are better off.  Charters are a key component in this, though they're not the whole equation.

    I'd encourage anyone running a guild to think really hard about what they want their guild to be like, and how they can share that vision with prospective members.  As well, I'd encourage anyone looking to join a guild to really think about what they want to get out of it, and what kind of group they want it to be.  Not the gameplay stuff like wanting people to run dungeons with or craft with, but the emotional stuff.  If you wouldn't really accept most of your guildmates as your friends because of the way they behave or the attitudes they have about things, you're in the wrong guild.

    • 672 posts
    October 12, 2018 11:33 AM PDT

    I haven't been a guild leader. I have been the leader of Counterstrike source leaguing teams before. So I understand some of that. But I would say if your guild shares the same type of culture then it isn't too hard. I have been an officer for a few guilds in my life time with some of them being over a hundred active members. Most of the problems that stemmed were from people not getting to raid, even with multiple raid forces. That can be solved in several ways. Other than that the only job part I can see is if you run a DKP system, which we did, and designated one person to updating it, and had one person doing the calendar(guild leader usually), and class leaders that aren't the guild leader or someone designated already to a task.

    Only time it was a job that I could see is if the members were causing static among each other or just never meshed well and then it becomes damage control, which is pretty annoying to deal with.

    • 101 posts
    October 15, 2018 9:14 AM PDT

    Structure and responsibilities of the leadership roles are important.  In my guild, we had class advisors for technical/gameplay advice for each class.  Then we had raid leaders who were good at organizing people and raid strategy.  DKP officers took care of loot management systems, other officers handled recruitment, guild tagging, probationary members, etc.  Lastly other officers handled member conflicts.  The leader was the final say in everything and anything, but only if a deciding vote was required.

    Shameless plug.. if this sounds good to you keep in touch.  I'll be building a guild by the name of Travelers of Terminus.

    In the end its very important that the Leader sets clear expectations of the members and officers, and maintains the integrity.


    This post was edited by Defector at October 15, 2018 9:15 AM PDT
    • 697 posts
    October 19, 2018 12:52 AM PDT

    Membership roles can really help. Officers, and elders make or break your guild pretty fast. Having quality ones with good raidleaders and that will go a long way.

    Not all guilds high end raiding last either, some merge with others due to burn outs, long time in the game, and just plain need something else to do.

    Its a job when you have to listen to bitching from members all across the board. When you have to dicate rules and organization. Otherwise a perfect guild is one that can manage it self by the core membership.

    It gets mostly drama when you have hot heads and those full of themselves trying to take full leadership away without being a leader.

    Just saying with lots of years in all levels of play.

    • 26 posts
    October 21, 2018 8:35 AM PDT

    If it feels like work you're doing it wrong. Been a gaming community leader for 15+ years. Officers only have one job and that's to invite people into the guild, they have zero authority over any other member, and there is no hierarchy. Those who wish to lend a hand may, otherwise people are to focus on their game play and having fun. Zero tolerance for drama, play nice or be kicked. Most importantly it's a game, so anyone who sucks the fun out of it for anyone is disposed of immediately.

    • 38 posts
    October 25, 2018 5:01 AM PDT

    I agree with what most people are saying - officers help! I feel like the guild leader is more of a CEO type, the point person to help set up the structure. Then the officers each take on little chunks of managment, like class leads, raid lead/setup, dkp manager, bank/consumables manager, recruiter, etc. Maybe even an "HR" person who handles drama/fights/loot disuptes haha. If one person is trying to do all of that, it is very taxing and makes it feel like work. An organizational structure/hierarchy helps spread out the workload and each person doesn't have to take on so much and has each other to rely on for help. It also helps to really define what the guild is about - is it just a casual accept-all social guild or a guild where 3am call-trees are in effect, that helps manage expecations of members and can lessen the stress because you have something to refer to that they agreed when they joined.

    • 264 posts
    October 27, 2018 2:57 PM PDT

    Alisera said:

    I agree with what most people are saying - officers help! I feel like the guild leader is more of a CEO type, the point person to help set up the structure. Then the officers each take on little chunks of managment, like class leads, raid lead/setup, dkp manager, bank/consumables manager, recruiter, etc. Maybe even an "HR" person who handles drama/fights/loot disuptes haha. If one person is trying to do all of that, it is very taxing and makes it feel like work. An organizational structure/hierarchy helps spread out the workload and each person doesn't have to take on so much and has each other to rely on for help. It also helps to really define what the guild is about - is it just a casual accept-all social guild or a guild where 3am call-trees are in effect, that helps manage expecations of members and can lessen the stress because you have something to refer to that they agreed when they joined.

    Exactly how AG has functioned over the past 18 years! As leader, the interest is more, as you say, "an HR person," and many times, our people have been sent quiet /tells rather than inflict the drama or issues on the entire group! The officers should be ready to assume responsibilities, as you stated! Our Charter is in place and has been for a while! If there are questions about what is or might be acceptable, people are always free to ask any of the "oldies" because they know the routine! Also why we tell people now that we aren't actively seeking members because it's goingt o still be a wait and things change! We've seen people come and go and it's fully expected! There does seem to be a core group, and that is encouraging. It will come in handy when the game actually launches!

    • 78 posts
    October 28, 2018 12:54 PM PDT

    Funny that you should mention charters, OP. We have one as well! ( https://exuguild.com/charter.html

    And guild leadership can be a burden, that's why reliable officers can be a huge boon to the administration of a guild, as well. As well as a reliable means of group communication, and a record so that what's been decided can be referenced later. To this end, forums are a great tool, but even a discord with a dedicated channel for officer text chat, or a facebook or whatsapp group can be useful. But other than means of communication, what's said is of most importance, and I agree with OP's statement that a charter can go a long way to easing drama and/or communication woes.

    • 18 posts
    December 25, 2018 3:18 PM PST

    Never really been a guild leader, I was usually more of an HR/Secretary role I guess, I always just took it even if unofficial, you might or may not expect how fast I climb the ranks of pretty much any guild I get into, I don't have as an extensive record as many here, but I did play since vanilla WoW and jumped around to various MMO's as well and I usually got up in the higher ranks of most guilds within 2-3 months (at most, depending on size). Basically I did A LOT of drama management, I had a notebook with not only events but things that were good to keep in mind about people's IRL status (that's thrown away now of course), such as x and z is married and y is in the military and q can only play on these days. I would always tell people right off the bat if something bothered them, they needed to be honest and if it were hard/embarising/etc. they could whisper me and I would take care of it or talk it over with other officers if needed. I found that I sometimes outshone both the GM and the second in command in some of the smaller guilds, as people would come to me quite a lot, sometimes with really private stuff and it's trust I appreciate, even if it were a bit overwhelming. 

    That's the reason why I jumped in here, it's not meant to be a rant or bragging about my "l33t officer skillz", but I felt that I would be relied upon pretty heavily and sometimes to the point where GM's would kinda sit back and just assume I was an unofficial GM and the guild would crumble. So I feel I have enough experience (yet not) to say, it's a job, absolutely without a doubt.

    I never really got burnt out personally, if your around people you enjoy being around it just feels good when things work and knowing that your part of the reason it does work. That's the thing as well, different kinds of guilds deal with different issues, if your making an RP guild, well the drama there (pun only partly intended) is going to be different than the drama in a raid guild.

    Avoid officer bloat as well, officers can make or break a guild (boy do I have some stories) but if you got 4 normal members and 15 officers you got an issues (yes I've seen this happen several times). You should have enough officers to deal with problems, but no more, otherwise it just makes things more complicated when you need to make decisions regarding the guild.

     

    • 5 posts
    January 3, 2019 1:18 AM PST

    It's not a job. But it can be taxing on your RL time (forums posts, discord etc.).

    Not everyone is suited for it, but as long as you're patient and communicative and have people skills, it's not terribly hard.


    This post was edited by Nimrael81 at January 3, 2019 1:19 AM PST
    • 37 posts
    March 1, 2019 3:33 PM PST

    Guild Leadership is absolutely a job, a job with no benefits or perks. I have been running progression guilds for years (one in EQ and one in Rift after I left EQ) and my key is to keep it very simple. I don't write guild charters and pages of rules. That is self defeating, you can't write rules to cover everything and it invites lawyering. Boot someone for something not covered by the written rules and stand by for days of whining both public and private. I write a general "creation document" that outlines the guild and guild leader philosphy and leave it at that.

     

    Hire officers that are dedicated to making the membership game play better. 

     

    If you recruit a couple or band of buddies know that they may be individuals but they will act as one person. Piss of one and you piss off all of them. Refuse to carry one and you will lose them all. Just be aware of that up front.

     

    • 9 posts
    March 2, 2019 2:07 PM PST

    ^^ What Cladari said. I have led a guild in a few different games and it is a constant revolving door, especially for raiding. It is impossible to make everyone happy. You are going to work really hard if you plan to be a PvP guild or a PvE guild. The more serious you want to be, the more work it is.

    At one point when I was running my guild in WoW we had two Mythic Cutting Edge teams and I was recruiting a good 8 hours a day just to keep them running. Al lthe while peoeple cry and piss and moan about gear, other players, their class(wanting to switch), and not showing up for raids. It was a nightmare after a while and I learned that having smart, passionate, reliable Officers is the only way to keep a guild running well. When the guild finally died, it wasn't because were not progressing anymore, it was because the leadership lost its drive and it's soul. We just couldn't  do it anymore and I as well as others were so burned out we didn't even enjoy teh game anymore. I to this day, still can't play wow because of the level of anxiety I had over a year ago :P

    If you plan to run a guild, make some goals, figure out what you want to do with it, stick to it, and don't compromise your vision. you need to surround yourself with like minded TRUSTWORTHY Officers, and NEVER be afraid to remove someone who doesn't mesh, doesn't respect others, doesn't follow the rules, etc. If they are aa problem now, they will be a problem later and having an open seat in raids is better than having a clique with drama that can literally dictate what happens in raids because it grew too big and you can't afford to lose them all at once.

    Being a leader is very rewarding though. I can say I have a lot of fond memories and I was praised a lot by other guild leaders and the raiders I had. But you will care for your guild like it is a child.

     

    Also as Cladari said, we had a lot of rules in myy last guild but most of them were subjective or covered broad topics to keep things civil. but there was one rule we never compromised on, we do not take groups of people. We would allow up to 2 people to  come to a guild together (like a couple or whatever) but we never took more than 2, the few times early one that we did, it caused WAY too much drama and gave them too much power in the raid.


    This post was edited by Yaz87x at March 2, 2019 2:11 PM PST
    • 54 posts
    March 10, 2019 4:40 PM PDT

    I think whether it is a "Job" or not is slightly Subjective.. Similar to if you do something you love, you never work a day in your life. Like any leader- You need to identify the "mission" of your group. If your guild is more of a social construct, casual in nature, or it is small in size.. You will probably find that it isn't a job or work as it doesn't require a lot of time and attention. If you run a hardcore raid guild, that changes the whole context of what is required of you and undoubtedly will require work...

    BUT- Your leadership style and organization will probably determine whether or not it is a job regardless of what your mission is.