Preface
As I’ve been going through forum posts, video interviews, and live stream VoD’s I have started to realize that so much of what we know about various subjects is sprinkled here and there in little bits in various places. Learning it all can mean lots of digging and lots of watching of long videos, to find all the places where VR has answered questions on a topic. This post, and others I will be making in the future, is my attempt to bring as much of the info on specific topics into one place so people interested in the subject can glean all the info we have in one place.
I also want to say at the beginning here a big THANK YOU to Joppa and Brad and the other Dev’s in all the videos for being so open and showing us so much of the game at such early stages.
*EDIT* November 14, 2018: Just thought I would make a quick update to this post to include the Behind the Design: Perception write up in the November 2018 newsletter. Make sure you check it out if you haven’t already.
The Perception System
Let’s start by reading what VR has stated on their main website (www.pantheonmmo.com) under The Pantheon Difference.
“One of the most profound things about Pantheon is how we are designing the game from the ground up so that the Environment truly matters – we want players to care about the world they are in, and why things are the way they are. When you think of MMOs, when is the last time you discovered the meaning, or the history, or the secrets of a person, place or event without being told by a text box? What if we’ve conceived of a way to bring players back to exploring because they are compelled by what they see in front of them - not because a blinking light tells them to go there? In Pantheon, Wizards will be able to perceive things that a Warrior cannot. Through prayer, a Cleric may gain insight into an area, or a creature, that a Rogue could never know. Through our perception system, Pantheon will redefine how the game world becomes known, and how players will work together to progress.”
So where did this idea come from?
In game play footage back in April of 2017 with CohhCarnage Joppa (aka Chris Perkins) gives us the answer to this very question: Early Monk Gameplay (54:44).
Joppa says: “It’s an interesting story; The whole idea of the perception system came to me while I was playing Guild Wars 2. If anyone knows Guilds Wars 2, you know Divinities Reach. I was in Divinities Reach and there is a certain section of Divinities Reach, you come into the city and run to the left, if I’m remembering this correctly, there is this big open kind of atrium type room with these big constellations up in the ceiling. It looked really neat. I was really captivated by it, it was very striking visually. As I was looking at it, wondering what it was, I realized that I don’t have a quest for this. There is just no way I’m going to be able to find out what it is. I could run around and talk to some NPC’s but I don’t have a quest for this particular thing I’m looking at, so I kinda just lost interest in it. So as I thought about that and processed that, it came to me ‘Man wouldn’t it be awesome if just by finding something interesting, just by coming across something interesting, the game the environment itself prompted you and gave you the opportunity to dive deeper into that’. That’s is really what the perception system is all about. You come across things in your adventures that excite or interest you and the game itself draws you into the story.”
So how does this Perception system work?
In a much earlier game play stream with CohhCarnage from back in December 2016 we got our first explanation of how one will activate this perception system. Alpha with the Devs Part 1 (54:17).
Joppa says: “This is our attempt to design a system that allows for rich quests and story content inside of an open non-linear game world. We are not using quest hubs and exclamation points in mini-maps with flashing lights to create our quests and story content. We have designed a system that takes the environment itself and makes it the quest giver in a sense. What that means practically is; as you are running through the game world if you are someone who is pursuing the perception system, if you become a Keeper as we are calling it, you will be able to progress in your ability to perceive certain things in the environment around you. Using two skills, primarily a passive skill called Insight and an active skill called investigate. What you are about to see here is, we are going to run down this path and you are going to see an example where the passive insight skill is going to alert you to something around you that you can either ‘embrace’ your intuition or you can disregard it. In this case I am going to ask Cohh to embrace his intuition and we are going to see some of the very early perception system in action.”
You then get to see Cohh trigger the perception event and read through some dialog.
Joppa says: “You embraced your perception and that opens up the dialog and now you’ve read through the dialog and you got another perception ping ‘You feel like you are being watched’ but other than that it leaves the player with maybe a sense of what to do next. So we will need to see if we can find something as we move forward. That’s a very simple example of the perception system at work. There was no quest hub gathering, we are simply running around through an environment. Sometimes you may see something in the distance and just by right of going there and just being in proximity of a PoI (point of interest) you’ll be able through the perception system to learn more about it or uncover a story line. Sometimes NPCs will reach out to you, flag you down, or draw your attention as we just saw. Sometimes it will be an active thing where it is up to you to put pieces together and use your investigate skill in certain areas to uncover the next piece of the story or the puzzle. As we develop this more and more our hope is that the power of the system the immersiveness of the system will become more clear.”
They then move on down the road and find the Cave from the dialog and see the girl’s brother there. Triggering more dialog from this brother.
So what if I miss some of the Dialog, can I go back and find it somewhere?
At (1:00:01) Joppa answers this very question.
Joppa says: “Everyone who becomes a Keeper will receive a Tome of Keeping, and that Tome of Keeping will be where all the quest information; Dialog or key words or phrases will be kept for you. So if you do happen to miss some dialog or you read through it to quickly and can’t remember what you read you can pull it up in your Tome.”
So how do you become a Keeper?
In the Early Monk Gameplay Part 2 video at 1:23:32 this is asked.
Joppa says: “Your introduction to the perception system will be as a fledgling Keeper, you will have; I tend to think of it somewhat like a Jedi Master - Padawan relationship where you will have someone very wise, very old and well acquainted with the aspects of perception who will kind of be your mentor through the beginning of the system. Teaching you how to notice things. It’s where you will acquire your initial skills for perception and then you’ll be able to go and put them to use through various small tasks and quests around the area where that Mentor is in a starting city let’s say. You will be finding these kind of mentors throughout the game world. Some of them will be for example in the tower we just went to, there could be a Gnome in that little Library that at a certain level of your perception advancement you have to travel to that tower and speak to him. And only when you do that can you progress as an insight specialized Keeper or as an Investigate specialized Keeper. That’s a little snapshot into the beginnings of it and how you’ll learn it. There will be somewhat of a tutorialized system. I very much want it to feel natural and kind of immersive and then you’ll do a lot of travel and exploring to find other mentors throughout the game.”
Is there any reason NOT to become a Keeper and unlock Perception?
Let’s jump back to our first video link where Joppa explained how he came up with the idea. He was actually answering this very question when he launched into his ‘interesting story’. Early Monk Gameplay at 54:05.
Joppa says: “I will answer that question by saying; Is there any reason not to become a crafter? You can think of perception very much like another sphere of the game just like crafting is. Your decision to become a Keeper is purely one of wanting to have access to that kind of game play. If you are interested in the Lore.”
So what if I don’t choose to become a Keeper and unlock the Perception. Does this mean I can’t do quests?
To find the answer to this question we actually need to go back to the second Stream that the Dev’s did in June 2016. Aradune (aka Brad Mcquaid) is who explains this time: Early Gameplay Stream (1:27:39)
Aradune says: “To be clear, there will still be your more traditional quests. We are going to be using those for the bigger quests; the epic quests. Things that are really telling a story where you do need to do so many things in order to complete it. It’s a combination of the perception and as well as the traditional.”
So Perception sometimes gives you Quests and sometimes may just give you some Story and Lore.
Fast forward to March 2018, we have a stream with the Comic book artist Jim Lee. Joppa shows him a spot where the Perception system can be used to give you a little insight into the area. Pantheon with Jim Lee + Crew (34:03).
Joppa says: “The way we are wanting to handle story content and quests in an open world non-instance game, it’s called our Perception system. I’m gonna take you through a little spot. (music change). So you hear a music change and let’s say you’ve never been here before, and you stop and you pay attention. This face you see carved in the stone. This would be a perfect spot, and it will be eventually, where you will experience the perception system. We are not coming here because we have a quest for it, there is not any exclamation point over somebodies head, or a mini map. You are just exploring and you see something interesting, maybe there is a music change, but the perception system will turn the environment into a quest giver. So you would find something like this and then instantly be prompted with the next step because you found it. And all of a sudden you find yourself caught up in a story, and moving to the next part to find out what this face is about. Why is it here and what is important about it. It is a much more immersive natural way to stumble upon story and content without being on rails.”
In Part 2 of the Early Monk Gameplay stream at 34:53 they are in an area where non-hostile Gnomes are in a room with lots of scrolls and such. Joppa explains some of the Lore and then…
Joppa says: “This would a perfect example of a place where someone who is a Keeper, someone who is advancing in the Perception system, would be able to come here and learn a lot, progress a lot and gain a lot of knowledge to put in their Tome of Keeping. There will be places all around Terminus; hot spots of knowledge and Lore. Really excited about this place in particular and places like it”
An example of the ‘Traditional’ questing not tied to Perception.
In a later gameplay Stream we saw several streamers together with Joppa adventuring. After the official stream was done, one of the streamers @Vress was given permission to look around and he found a Guard who he was able to speak to and complete a quest: Vress Ranger PoV Stream (2:50:18).
With a little help from Joppa he is able to locate the guards satchel and return it to him (2:56:53).
So what about Factions. How will they effect getting traditional quests?
Let’s go back to our Alpha with the Dev’s video with CohhCarnage. At 52:50 Joppa answers a question about Factions and goes into some extra detail that relate to how NPCs may respond to you.
Joppa says: “You can’t talk about having an open living breathing world without having real dynamic faction relationships between the different denizen’s of the world. From the get go you will be making decisions, performing actions, that will start to effect your faction with certain races and other factions within the game world. It’s not limited to factions. Alignment will also play a role. We will see some of that with the perception system. Not only are your decisions and actions effecting your faction alignment with other denizens of the world, but your also going to be progressing along a ‘Moral’ alignment as well. So you may have some NPCs that respond to faction, and you may have some that respond to alignment, and you may have some that respond to both. Our hopes is that it will create a pretty deep system of interaction between NPCs and the other denizens of the world as your character takes shape throughout the game.”
So if there is no Quest Hubs and traditional quests will be reliant on factions and alignments, how am I supposed to get all the quest experience to level up?
Let’s go back to our Early Monk Gameplay video with CohhCarnage at 50:57 the question about grinding mobs vs questing to level up. Joppa lays it out for us.
Joppa says: “So our quest system, perception system is pretty unique. One of the decisions we made was to remove the leveling focus from our quest system, because part of what we are wanting to do is to move away from the 'On the rails' approach, that linear approach to questing. When questing is your primary way to level up then that's all you are really looking for is the next round of quests. So while there will be some quests that provide experience, the primary way you will level up in Pantheon is through combat, through vanquishing enemies. There will probably be some experience gains tied into certain, when your character gains skills in certain ways as you are progressing through the perception system for example or crafting system. We are open to the idea of tying some of those advancements into your adventuring experience. What you will not see is quest hub after quest hub filled with quests and then working through your quest journal as the fastest way to level.”
So what if I ignore the perception system but then after I make it to level 50 I decide to become a Keeper?
So in the Dec 2016 stream with CohhCarnage in Part 2 of ‘Alpha with the Dev’s’ at 2:41.
Joppa says: “It’s very important that players are able to pickup the perception system at any point in time. So in other words, you should be able to start a character and level all the way up to level 50 without doing a single piece of perception related content. Then decide at level 50 ‘you know what I want to give this a try’ and you go and become a Keeper and ALL of the perception content is available to you in an organic way. We have some ideas on how to make that happen pretty seamlessly and elegantly and you can be sure that’s a non-negotional part of the system design.”
So I joined this group going into this cave and they told me they have this quest that led them here. If I don’t have this quest, does this mean I can’t do the quest with them?
This question actually has some slightly conflicting information in answer. In this same video right after Joppa explains starting perception at level 50, at 2:29.
Ben (Director of Communications) says: “So you could run across a quest that’s the middle part of the quest and you don’t need to start right at the beginning, that’s cool.”
Aradune says: “Yeah the Epic quests will be more linear, but the average quests with perception you can pick up at different times and it’s not necessarily A to B to C to D exactly.”
But a little later on at 11:28 they reach a part in the quest line where they get a key from a Wraith.
Cohh asks: “If we had not talked to the girl that was crying and gone through this quest line, we wouldn’t have a key to get to certain parts of this dungeon?”
Joppa replies: “That is correct, that is how we have gotten to this point so far.”
So this conflicts with the premise that Perception is supposed to allow you to obtain the quest when you arrive at a place or point and not need to have the quest already in progress that you obtained in town from an NPC.
Perhaps Joppa could respond and give us more clarification on if this Key could have been obtained from this Wraith NPC in the dungeon if the Wraith was the first point of the quest line the player had found. So if they had never come across the weeping girl in town, or her brother at the Cave entrance.
Jim Lee found a key too without any quest.
Back in Jim Lee + Crew video at 1:12:38 Jim finds a Pillar that is interesting and he finds key.
This is also shown a little better in the June 2016 Early Gameplay Stream at 1:24:26 where they find the door first and it’s locked. Aradune remembers they didn’t fully explore the perception trigger at the Pillar and they go back and find the Key.
Even Cohh gets to find this same key by the Pillar in his Rogue gameplay video at 11:20.
Later as they find and open the door at 38:43…
Cohh says: “So if we had not found this key at the beginning we just couldn’t progress through here?”
Joppa responds: “Not a great example, because we don’t want for the perception system to work as a hard lock. Were this more of a flavor area where you are going to run into some NPCs you can maybe interact with and learn some stuff about this dungeon, I absolutely think that would be part of what we could see. But something like: you need a Keeper to find a key to actually progress to the deepest content in the dungeon; probably not gonna see that. That’s why I said earlier it’s more of a proof of concept right now.”
Will perception be like crafting where we choose what type of perception we train, or is it just one system we skill up as a whole?
This was asked in the Early Monk Gameplay Part 1 stream at 56:32.
Joppa says: “That’s something we have kicked around a little bit. Is there going to be some form of specialization within Perception? I think it would be really cool. I’ve been talking a lot with our lead writer about that, and one of the ideas he had that’s really compelling is… perception right now is built around two main skills: Investigate which is your activated ability; you go somewhere and use your investigate skill actively to see what’s around you. And then you have a passive skill called insight, and it would be really neat to see certain Keepers being able to specialize in one of those two things, and of course the details of what that would look like I don’t have for you right now but very open to that idea.”
So here Joppa gives us the impression that Keeper specialization is just an idea right now and they haven’t decided on anything. But later on in Part 2 of the stream at 45:59 it is asked:
Will perception allow you to be able to detect certain dispositions with certain factions?
Joppa says: “Depending on what type of Keeper you are; there will be a specialization of Keeper that will be able to discern NPC disposition, yes.”
This suggests that Perception can definitely be specialized and they already have these planned out.
Skip ahead a little bit to 49:07
Is there any reason why someone wouldn’t want to be that kind of Keeper that will be able to detect dispositions?
Joppa says: “Well that will be our job to try to make sure that however many different specializations there are that a player would be insentivized to persue any of them. So while that’s a pretty high profile distinction right now; say the Keeper that specializes in insight may be able to perceive certain dispositions but you can trust that there will be incentives for the Keeper that specializes in Investigation equally as valuable and desirable.”
So once I’m a Keeper can I trigger all the Perception points?
We get a quick little blurb by Joppa that gives us the answer in the Pre-Alpha 3 Dire Lord video at 37:30
Joppa says: “When you are a Keeper and you are running around the world, you are going to come across these triggers based on your skill in perception and what story lines you are on and what you are flagged for at that given moment.”
Perception may not tell you everything!
In the Voices of Terminus Dev Q&A with Lore writer Istuulamae and Joppa, at 34:56
Joppa says: “Just because there is all of this information, you shouldn’t think the players are going to know that. For me some of the things that stick with me the most, from Everquest, were the things that I had no idea what they were or why they were. They were just so compelling to me because of their strangeness. The Hermit house in south Karana. Who is that dude, and why is he there. I don’t know. Just the fact that he’s there and I can’t know, intrigues me. It adds weight and gravitas and mystic to the zone. If everything had a story and everything told it’s story it wouldn’t have the same effect. The way Justin has done the Lore, you know everything does have a story. Knowing that when you can’t figure it out, that only adds to the mystic because you know it’s there for a reason. You want to know it. That’s why the perception system interacts with work that Justin has done so well because you need all of those layers and depth so that you can have things that you can surprise the players with and open up to them over time.”
Can't I just bind Investigate to my movement keys and max it out in a day? *New Question Added: November 20, 2018*
In this very thread, Joppa responded to this particular question and gave us some more information about the ‘Investigate’ skill.
Joppa says: No. While the exact mechanics of the Investigate skill are still being tuned, I can share three important pillars of how this ability will function:
1. Investigate will most likely be a channeled ability. Therefore, the player cannot Investigate while on the move.
2. Investigate will have a meaningful cooldown. The sweet spot will be short enough that you are not dissuaded from using it when you are curious about something you see, but long enough to dissuade players from spamming it every few feet.
3. This part is crucial: When you activate Investigate, it does not function like a radial, "sonar" effect. You will need to be looking at the discoverable thing, have it in your field of view, for Investigate to trigger the find.
So it's a bit more than just an 'Active' ability you click and forget. Once you activate Investigate, the your job is to use it to sniff out what's there to be found.
Conclusion
So now you’ve read through all of this and you’ve watched the video clips and you feel you have a better sense of Perception. Let’s conclude with one final Video that VR has put out that sums up pretty much everything we have seen so far.
The Perception System in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
One thing mentioned here that was not clearly defined in any of the above video clips is found at 1:34 where it says:
“A wizard may be see something that a warrior can not. Through prayer a Cleric may be able to gain insight about an area or enemy that a rogue may never know.”
Your Race and your Class can open up or limit what perception stuff you will see.
Great summary.
So far, from what I've seen and these descriptions, it's a volumetric boundary/interaction/threshold check (as in, it's an asynchronous check when the player model intersects a volumetric trigger on the server) against a stat or skill. That's been around since and before NWN1. In fact, you can write such triggers via NWScript, as an end user/modder, in the Aurora toolset.
The only problem I see is the practical disposition evaluation only has value if mob locations and dispositions are actually random. Which, so far, they're not, and it's not a publicly stated design goal for launch that they will be.
So.. that's a bit off, considering the no-doubt massive time sink this will involve to skill up, if the mob locations and dispositions are static, of what value is it, really?
Now, if it becomes a publicly stated design goal for launch that mob locations and dispositions will actually be random? Awesome, great idea, looking forward to the implementation. Otherwise, it's just lore questing/normal questing without NPCs. Which certainly has it's place, but it's nothing new. Evaluation of disposition, including strengths, weaknesses, resistances and vulnerabilities would be ten kinds of awesome. But just knowing "this npc is an alerter".. /yawn. We'll know that 2 seconds after we engage. Tell me it's 35% more susceptible to fire and poison damage, and my 100 damage poison or firebolt does 135 damage? Now we're talking.
It's really important to note that when a dev says "that would be cool" that means it's imaginary, future, theorycrafting, or hypothetical discussion. It's not a milestone, goal, or design goal, yet. It's just a "cool" idea, and they're saying that to create illusionary excitement about potential, not about reality.
I feel like I'm pretty up to date on the perception system info (i didnt rewatch any of those links) but I guess this does lead to a question...
If someone decides not to become a keeper, for whatever reason, do they gimp themselves?
I know this has been asked in the past and the official response has been: no, it is optional.
But is it really? In one stream we saw the perception system alert players to the location of a key.
That ^ is a pretty crucial piece of information. What if no one in the group is a keeper? Even if there is another way around, missing that key has effectively made their dungeon run more difficult. There is no cost in becoming a keeper afaik. It seems like it might be best just to make it mandatory...unless
Unless, and I'm just thinking out loud here, they are concerned that the pop ups on the screen will be unwanted by some players? Is that why it is optional? Not because it is optional as far as usefulness but that the way it is presented will not be universally approved of?
Seems like maybe it should just be mandatory.
Philo said: In one stream we saw the perception system alert players to the location of a key. That ^ is a pretty crucial piece of information. What if no one in the group is a keeper?
So I know you said that you didn't really go through everything I posted, so I could just say 'Go read everything', but I will go over it again for you to answer your specific concerns. I will draw your attention to a part in my post called: Jim Lee found a key too without any quest.
In that section there is the following.
Cohh says: “So if we had not found this key at the beginning we just couldn’t progress through here?”
Joppa responds: “Not a great example, because we don’t want for the perception system to work as a hard lock. Were this more of a flavor area where you are going to run into some NPCs you can maybe interact with and learn some stuff about this dungeon, I absolutely think that would be part of what we could see. But something like: you need a Keeper to find a key to actually progress to the deepest content in the dungeon; probably not gonna see that. That’s why I said earlier it’s more of a proof of concept right now.”
So as you can see. Joppa himself realizes that this kind of use for perception to find things that are 'required' in order to advance or progress in a dungeon... well in his words "probably not gonna see that". They only created this little Pillar perception trigger in order to prove the concept that you can find objects through the perception system. Most likely objects found this way will be quest related, and Lore related that let you experience part of the story of Terminus.
In a related section of my post closer to the top there is the question: So what if I don’t choose to become a Keeper and unlock the Perception. Does this mean I can’t do quests?
Aradune says: “To be clear, there will still be your more traditional quests. We are going to be using those for the bigger quests; the epic quests. Things that are really telling a story where you do need to do so many things in order to complete it. It’s a combination of the perception and as well as the traditional.”
So there will still be normal questing that does not tie to the Perception system. Some quests you will only get through perception, but any quests that are part of progression (like keys) or lead to highly sought after items (like Epics) will be tied to these kinds of traditional quests.
If you go look above in my post there is a link to some footage by Vress as he actually does one of these Traditional kinds of quests not tied to Perception.
That didn't answer the question at all goofy. I think we are all aware of the official responses we bave been given and have watched all the streams. I'm still unsure why it just isn't mandatory? Don't get tied down by the key example.
What is the benefit gained by choosing to opt out?
The only thing I can think of is if some players might consider the way they are notified by the perception system negatively? Otherwise, why would you choose not to? If there is no reason why a player should ever not participate in the perception system is there really more than 1 choice? Obviously everyone will be expected to be a keeper by their group members.
Why would anyone choose not to be a keeper?
Philo said: What is the benefit gained by choosing to opt out? Why would anyone choose not to be a keeper?
Hmm... you really didn't even browse through my post did you? There is actually this very exact question, with an answer. But since my initial post was a little long I won't make you search for it, I will copy it out for you again.
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Is there any reason NOT to become a Keeper and unlock Perception?
Let’s jump back to our first video link where Joppa explained how he came up with the idea. He was actually answering this very question when he launched into his ‘interesting story’. Early Monk Gameplay at 54:05.
Joppa says: “I will answer that question by saying; Is there any reason not to become a crafter? You can think of perception very much like another sphere of the game just like crafting is. Your decision to become a Keeper is purely one of wanting to have access to that kind of game play. If you are interested in the Lore.”
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So, while I do understand how you may just say, "Who wouldn't want to have perception enabled". But some people feel the same way about Crafting... "Who wouldn't want to craft", or maybe even trading, "Who wouldn't want to buy and sell items?". Some people just don't like bothering with that part of MMO's. I think that Joppa just wants to make sure people don't feel like they are roped into participating in perception questing. In fact even the non-perception questing seems mostly optional. Yes there may be some Epic quests that everyone will want to do. But if you don't want to help Guard Whats'his'name find his satchel, you shouldn't feel compelled to do so.
This is why Joppa also explained that Questing will NOT be a major source of experience, and you won't need to do any quests in order to keep up in levels.
Now maybe some people feel like this just brings Pantheon down to the level of 'Hack and Slash' gameplay. But it's not as if they haven't included all the other aspects. It's just that 'hack and slash' is going to be the only 'mandatory' part.
@Goofy
I don't feel like that is a good comparison. Crafting takes a lot of time and resources so there is obviously a reason not to become a crafter. Perception will happen on its own as a player moves through the game from what we have been shown.
Maybe I'm not understanding how perception will work? Are you saying that we will have to grind perception somehow to make it useful Goofy?
Will perception take a lot of time and resources in a way similar to crafting?
Devs have certainly never commented about a perception grind or even mentioned that players would have to go out of their way or use resources to skill it up that I recall.
OakKnower said: Thanks for putting this together Goofy.
No problem. I know how hard it can be to find all the answers they have given out. So I just wanted to get it all in one place. I'll try to keep it up to date as more info, or more examples get shown in future streams.
Philo said: Are you saying that ... Goofy?
I didn't make this summary to be the guy who tells you how things are. I don't work for VR. I am just the guy who compiled all the things that VR has said about it. I'm also not saying you have to like their answers. I'm just passing on what those answers are.
In this situation, you asked 2 questions that were already answered in my post. I simply re-quoted those answers for you. You are totaly free to not like the answers they gave, or to want more clarification. I also would like to know more about some things.
Philo said: Maybe I'm not understanding how perception will work?
From my understanding, perception is a way for them to present Lore and Story elements to help players feel part of the world. Some of this may involve quests, and some may just be 'fun facts' that show up to give you a sense of the world around you. Some players don't really care about the lore, and they play a MMO game so that they can get together in groups and kill dragons and other big tough monsters.
Philo said: I don't feel like that is a good comparison. Crafting takes a lot of time and resources so there is obviously a reason not to become a crafter.
I don't believe the use of resources has anything to do with why somebody chooses to craft or not craft. I really doubt anyone ever says "I don't want to use up my resources so I'm not going to be a crafter." Nor do I think people say "I don't wanna have to collect these resources so I'm not going to be a crafter." It seems to be the other way around, they say "I really don't want to be bothered with crafting, so I'm going to not bother collecting resources."
The people who choose not to craft... they just don't like that part of the game. Although I guess some people do just not have the time for it because their play time is short as it is and they'd rather spend their time adventuring.
Philo said: Perception will happen on its own as a player moves through the game from what we have been shown.
Some of perception works like that... the passive 'insight' stuff will just happen on its own. But there is also 'investigate' type of perception that will require you to activate it. And you'll likely need to be in the right spot for it to do anything. And my guess is that it will have a cooldown for this skill so that players can't just spam it as they walk around. You will have to make the right choice on where to attempt to 'investigate'. And this means you need to pay attention to the information that shows up from the passive parts of perception. Some people might not want to read these things and try and figure things out. They may just want to go kill some Giant Rats.
Philo said: Devs have certainly never commented about a perception grind or even mentioned that players would have to go out of their way or use resources to skill it up that I recall.
So far there hasn't been any explaination of 'how' you skill up perception, but they have said that it does need to be skilled up. And what you can percieve is effected by your skill level. So maybe that just comes from using it, but they have also hinted that it may involve finding special 'trainers' that you get to train up your skill to the next level. If it does involve skilling up just by using it. It means that you might need to actively explore in order to find enough perception triggers to get your skill high enough so that when you get to specific areas where you really need to have the higher skill level, it will be high enough to actually work.
Let's train to Goofy's quotes as it make it less messy :p :
GoofyWarriorGuy said: Some of perception works like that... the passive 'insight' stuff will just happen on its own. But there is also 'investigate' type of perception that will require you to activate it. And you'll likely need to be in the right spot for it to do anything. And my guess is that it will have a cooldown for this skill so that players can't just spam it as they walk around. You will have to make the right choice on where to attempt to 'investigate'. And this means you need to pay attention to the information that shows up from the passive parts of perception. Some people might not want to read these things and try and figure things out. They may just want to go kill some Giant Rats.
My guess would be more of an immobile casting time than a cooldown, more logical overall, as you need time to observe things, but that's a detail.
@Philo
Maybe some perception level allow you to get shortcuts here and there for your party. I "think" I do remember that when they presented the perception system for the first time, with the pillar and the key thing, they said "You will have other ways to reach that area", but I'm really not sure.
If I remember right, that would mean that just as crafting, perception will and can support your adventuring, but won't be forced overall. You can get a few shortcuts, maybe bonus quests and rewards, but you can work things withouth it. Just like crafting.
Great summary!
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Preface
As I’ve been going through forum posts, video interviews, and live stream VoD’s I have started to realize that so much of what we know about various subjects is sprinkled here and there in little bits in various places. Learning it all can mean lots of digging and lots of watching of long videos, to find all the places where VR has answered questions on a topic. This post, and others I will be making in the future, is my attempt to bring as much of the info on specific topics into one place so people interested in the subject can glean all the info we have in one place.
This is exactly why I started doing my summaries on the forums as well. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's hard to keep track of all the info out there about the game, and a lot of people simply don't have enough hours in the day to stay up to date. But everyone deserve to be in the loop. As I start to transition more into covering the game via YouTube and Twitch, I'd love to see more people in the community step up and take my place doing summaries like these. So keep it up Goofy! :)
Since the November 2018 newsletter has a nice Behind the Design: Perception write up, I thought I'd add it to the post and bring this Thread back to the attention of those who may not have seen it origionally, or may want to (re)watch some of the Perception stuff in action in the Streams.
Alisera said: This thread is fantastic :) You have so much info and you even linked to all the videos!! I really appreciate the time you spent on doing this because all I wanted to do was learn more about perception and now I can very easily, thank you!
Thanks for your support... I know how hard it can be to find all the information that has been given out in all the videos. It's not like the Forums where you can just do a search. So this is why I made this post, and I'm glad this can help you all out.
Perhaps a thread on perception specifically is a good place to support the comment someone else made in another thread about Behind the Design: Perception.
Having perception give one chance to see or do something and then it is lost forever is troublesome. At least if it is something significant.
I don't mind losing the title "First Songbird of Spring" because I was in a group moving fast and couldn't stop to pick up the birdfood bag on the ground and pour some out for the bird (a bit of old Might and Magic reference there). I do mind if it costs me a class skill or a quest in a game without that many quests.
dorotea said: Having perception give one chance to see or do something and then it is lost forever is troublesome. At least if it is something significant.
I had the same worry jump to my mind when I first read the newsletter. I thought... "What if I put somebody on /follow and run to use the toilet and miss a Perception trigger that popped up as we ran through while I wasn't there to see it!".
But then I recalled that there will be a Tome that records all of these Perception notices. I would hope that this Keepers Tome would also have a feature that will list 'New' triggers that have happend recently, perhaps with a special icon that shows me there are new perception notes that I haven't responded too so I am drawn to look in my Tome.
As for your 'Give one chance to see or do something and then it's lost forever...' I suggest that for those 'storyline' triggers that require 'Accept, Disregard, or Consider' choices; They should both stay on your screen until you make a choice (so when you return, they will still be there) and also default to 'Consider' if no choice is made before the person loses connection and goes offline or after a specific amount of time has passed if the person is extendedly AFK.
They could have an option for /follow to automatically turn off Perception temporarily until the person takes control of their toon again. Also could have /afk toggle turn off Perception temporarily as well.
All the other perception triggers you can always go back to and do more investigating whenever you want, so there is no fear of 'lost forever'.
I hate that questing is going to be a big thing at all. Once people figure out where these story quest starters are, they'll just sit there and spam their investigate skill until they get it. I'm still failing to see how this is anything more than a cute ? coverup. I don't think "stories" should exist in a game like this. Create the world and let the players fill it and write the story themselves. All a "story" does is require constant resources to create content that players will burn through like a single player game. There's never enough. You can't write a full story for an MMO like you can in a game like the Witcher because there is no end point, it's a living world.
People are going to take this skill, almost everyone, and bind it to a movement key so their active perception ability just passively spams itself. It seems like a great idea, but what does it really accomplish? Everyone will find out where these perception "nodes" are. Why go through all this trouble when you could just place unmarked quests that people could click on or otherwise interact with to start throughout the world and move on to covering all the other super imprortant fundamental requirements of a game this large.