Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - Good, Neutral and Evil

    • 409 posts
    September 14, 2018 11:29 AM PDT

    Whatever the race/class/religion lore suggests, that is how the character gets played.

    If the character is an agnostic dark elf, then that's like neutral evil to me. If it is my erudite cleric of Prexus, then neutral good? Iksar necromancer of Cazic? Evil, straight up. If it lives, I must kill it and enslave it. If it is dead, I must kill it again and enslave it. Ogre warrior who worships Rallos Zek? I don't know much, but I like killing things in combat, and what "things" doesn't really matter. If it lives, I want to fight and kill it, because fighting and killing is my jam, my religion's jam and my people's jam. 

    The devs/designers give us lore to work with, and I operate within those parameters from an RP/gameplay perspective. That said, all bets are off with any character class, of any race and religion when seeing dark elves who take some form of The Name That Shall Not Be Spoken. If I see that name, I kill whoever has it. Matter of fact, it's my one reason I'd want PVP on a server, and the only people I'd actually start fights with. That transcends notions of good/evil and is simply my need to cleanse the fantasy universe of any mention of He Who Shall Not Be Named. 


    This post was edited by Venjenz at September 14, 2018 11:30 AM PDT
    • 510 posts
    September 14, 2018 12:27 PM PDT

    I always set out to go Chaotic Good, but for some reason, in every game, I wind up true neutral... 

    • 156 posts
    September 15, 2018 8:12 PM PDT

    If I'm roleplaying, Chaotic Neutral/Good but if I'm not, true Neutral.

    • 108 posts
    September 15, 2018 8:28 PM PDT

    Generally neutral with good tendencies in mmos.

    • 19 posts
    September 16, 2018 12:24 PM PDT

    The good v evil concept (especialy on the pvp server) was nailed in EQ2, which encouraged a very strong sense of community.

    You could be arguing with your team mate about loot and then the opposite faction was seen or started attacking your grp or another nearby player. You immediately spring into action... to help your fellow citizens!!

    Meanwhile, directly attacking the opposite faction cities created a lot of suspense with adrenaline... dodging the guards.. and sneaking up on people... haha

    The fact that i remember this so vividly is testament to the impact that it had on me as a player


    This post was edited by spacesnowman at September 16, 2018 12:25 PM PDT
    • 1479 posts
    September 16, 2018 3:38 PM PDT

    Alignment is important, but in MMORPG where cooperation is forced and well fitted, playing chaotics or evil alignements non softened is quite scuicidal, I usually tone them down enough to be able to play with other withouth being hindered in my gameplay. However, if I play evil and factions are a thing, I might play along it with NPC kills at will.

    • 1584 posts
    September 16, 2018 5:10 PM PDT
    Neutral, if it suppose to be doing it I won't if it doesn't effect anybody but me I will
    • 264 posts
    September 18, 2018 9:58 PM PDT

    I lean heavily towards Lawful. The thing is I gotta be good or evil. Lawful evil is the most fun to play imo...but being the goody two shoes lawful good has it's moments too. The problem with me playing chaotic neutral is that results in me just running around killing everything and that gets old quick.

    • 107 posts
    September 20, 2018 10:30 AM PDT

    Well, seeing as basically everyone is evil in MMOs... (Very few "stand in the village and protect the villagers" quests. Many "there is a cave of 'monsters' go murder them because they have alot of treasure quests.")

    But I interact with other players with an intention of remembering they are people. My responses to quests and so forth depend on the story of my characters in my head. 

    • 29 posts
    September 20, 2018 12:37 PM PDT

    I am annoyingly (both to myself and others) Lawful Good in RL but in game often chaotic evil/good in games. Lawful good is fine, but can be boring and kind of stressful. The chaotic creatures have all the fun, IMO, and get to be the most creative/expressive. I'm really looking forward to Ogre/Halfling Druid and Myr/Elf Bard.

    • 363 posts
    September 20, 2018 3:42 PM PDT

    I roleplay a chaotic good smartass most of the time otherwise no feelings towards this topic.


    This post was edited by Willeg at September 20, 2018 4:02 PM PDT
    • 89 posts
    September 20, 2018 6:35 PM PDT

    In an MMO it's going to be some sort of good for the very simple reason that "evil" will get you in trouble with your fellow players.  At least if you are talking about actual actions.  Story/dialog stuff like SW:TOR's light/dark stuff can go either way but when you start talking actions evil ones are stuff like ninjaing, training, kill stealing, and so on that will get you a reputation...

    • 228 posts
    September 21, 2018 5:37 AM PDT

    As a player I try to be polite, generous and helpful towards others, as most players do. I suppose that's why I usually end up choosing a good race for my first characters. It just feels more like who I aim to be.

    Probably silly, but...


    This post was edited by Jabir at September 21, 2018 5:38 AM PDT
    • 690 posts
    September 22, 2018 1:32 AM PDT
    Technically evil. I usually prefer evil races because they tend to look cooler. I kill NPCs for their loots when convenient.
    That said, if given 3 questlines which are clearly good evil and neutral, I pick neutral.
    • 168 posts
    February 10, 2019 9:17 AM PST

    What is good? what is evil? I mean.. If i was a goblin defending my home from some some irrational crazed human adventures, I would say i'm good and those damned hoomans are evil!  If i'm a pathalogical liar and trickster telling myself that everyone loves a good laugh, then so long as SOMEONE is laughing, its gotta be a good thing!  If my brethren were slain by the High Priests Vornia because they did not submit to her god's calling, she is evil! ... 

    So, I ALWAYS play good, because from my point of view, whatever I do is obviously good... to me... Which brings me to my real question... Role Playing :)

    People talk about all this griefing and camp stealing and training and kill stealing... In reality though, why should you be mad about people playing a role in society?  Society cannot ALL be good in EVERYONE's eyes.  So, let the evil people be evil and the good people be good the those who are the fence will sit back and watch both sides and laugh. 

    • 123 posts
    February 10, 2019 12:20 PM PST

    Everything is more of a grey area for me...

     

    When I play a Troll my choices are around what can I eat.  While the Gnome family my think of me as "Evil" for eating their father.  The Troll is thinking of what side item would go good with aged Gnome.

    When I play a Dwarf Paladin my choices are based off of what can I do to help the poor Gnome family that just lost their father to a Troll.  As the Dwarf slaughters the Troll (and any Troll around the area for good measure) the Dwarf is happy and content that they have done a good deed by revenging the Gnome family.  The Dwarf does not think about how the Troll family feels after their brothers and sisters just got decimated for doing nothing more then putting food on the table.

    • 93 posts
    February 10, 2019 12:45 PM PST

    Neutral leaning more toward toward chaotic good.

    • 1921 posts
    February 10, 2019 12:54 PM PST

    In any game that offers it, lawful neutral.  I like the story options, and the gear it permits.  Could never get behind chaotic or evil, but mostly because doing so inevitably leads to a poorer story, from what I've seen.
    Even the good races vs. evil races in Norrath was just a facade for good to be easiest.  Sure, come to karnor's castle, oh.. now you're KoS in your Kunark outpost?  That's so sad.  Good races?  Kill anything except your own guards, no consequences.  Riiiiiiight.
    I get the idea that faction should be meaningful, and in Velious it was, and the choices were better.  Yet, the gear/rewards always, mathematically, appears to favor the good races more than the evil.  I mean ok, sure, most people are going to pick good races, I get it, but if you're going to have the evil option, at least make it worthwhile or complete.

    • 59 posts
    February 10, 2019 2:08 PM PST

    I'd love to see an alignment system, but there would have to be consequences and rewards for it. If its just fluff and doesn't have an effect, it may as well just be personal role play. Not sure todays average playerbase could really handle 'consequences for ones actions' though.

    • 127 posts
    February 10, 2019 3:20 PM PST

    I usually gravitate towards Lawful Good/Neutral Good character alignments, but I find that in a lot of CRPG's, alignment choices don't really carry enough weight. The problem is that good is almost always considered the norm and if you want to play an evil character, you have to make some serious sacrifices (in terms of who you can befriend, how many factions hate your guts and even the physical rewards you receive in the form of loot and gold).

    If Pantheon sticks to a division between good, neutral and evil (as opposed to specific personality traits defining your character's core values, such as greed vs. generosity) I hope that neutral alignments will actually be the norm. If you want to play a good aligned character you should have to make the most personal sacrifices and be truly selfless. Simple innocence and getting along with everyone is not necessarily 'good' in a medieval/folklore inspired fantasy setting. Good characters should actively make hard choices, where they willingly give up personal gain or even ruin their own reputation in pursuit of a just cause. Neutrality should be the path of least resistance, while evil is more risk vs reward oriented. Bloodthirsty barbarians are a form of evil, but the more interesting types of evil (the calculating kind) are careful about what they can get away with while still remaining in perfect harmony with the authorities.

    • 1033 posts
    February 10, 2019 4:45 PM PST

    Darck said:

    I'd love to see an alignment system, but there would have to be consequences and rewards for it. If its just fluff and doesn't have an effect, it may as well just be personal role play. Not sure todays average playerbase could really handle 'consequences for ones actions' though.

    Agreed, I think a system that follows the concept of Risk vs Reward in the selection of such would be a nice addition, but I too think that modern gamer’s would misunderstand such systems and treat them as purely punitive in occurrence (ie they would have no clue why they are being punished for their actions). 

     

     

    • 127 posts
    February 10, 2019 5:21 PM PST

    Tanix said:

    Darck said:

    I'd love to see an alignment system, but there would have to be consequences and rewards for it. If its just fluff and doesn't have an effect, it may as well just be personal role play. Not sure todays average playerbase could really handle 'consequences for ones actions' though.

     

    Agreed, I think a system that follows the concept of Risk vs Reward in the selection of such would be a nice addition, but I too think that modern gamer’s would misunderstand such systems and treat them as purely punitive in occurrence (ie they would have no clue why they are being punished for their actions).

    'Punishment' is a valid path of character development as long as it leads to a personalized experience that doesn't exclude you from engaging in the game's content (essentially dead ends where you can only grind mobs because every NPC hates you and you can't get access to towns or do any quests, etc.). You might incur some losses along the way, but there should always be new opportunities for any character that has made any combination of choices during their lifetime.

    I don't really see much cause for a modern gamer to complain if this was the case. As far as I know, VR doesn't intend to cater to the instant gratification crowd anyway, as they have the philosophy that MMO's are better if they're directed at a certain audience. Therefore I think most people who are interested in this game are fine with it if there are both rewards and punishments tied to the alignment of their characters.

    • 1785 posts
    February 10, 2019 6:08 PM PST

    I have trouble roleplaying evil.  It doesn't mean I won't try if it's appropriate to the character, but my brand of "evil" tends to be more ruthless than malevolent.

    But generally, my characters end up being goody-goodies.

    In any interaction that is not explicitly defined as roleplaying and agreed by all parties to be only that, I try to be as nice to other players as possible.

    • 79 posts
    February 11, 2019 6:16 AM PST

    I almost always play evil races and evil classes when I am selecting.  But when it comes to playing, I never take the evil route.

    • 2419 posts
    February 11, 2019 7:29 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Good, Neutral and Evil, all have their place in-game, so how do you typically play your character when faced with tough moral decisions? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

    Given that there are few, if any, truly tough moral decisions in MMOs or dangerous issues with having bad faction standings (even a lot of them) I really just don't think on it much at all.  I will make those decisions that benefit my character the most, be those decisions good or bad for one faction or another.  I'll typically play 'evil' races (had Troll Shaman and Beastlord in EQ1)just so that such choices aren't necessary as everyone hates you already.  Sure, sometimes I would try to build up some goody faction just to see if I could (managed to be non-KOS in Kelethin to all but the guildleaders but those are just for laughs.

    I heard someone say (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Even the most vile villian is the hero of their own story" and this is so true when applied to MMOs.  One person's, or faction's moral compass doesn't point in the same direction as someone elses.  All decisions are relative.