Forums » Pantheon Classes

Autoattack for casters?

    • 71 posts
    August 25, 2018 7:10 AM PDT

    One of the biggest differences between casters and melee is that melee use damage abilities while constantly autoattacking for free damage, while casters only cast spells and don't have an auto-attack for free damage.

    This can cause a lot of disparities and issues in burst vs sustained damage, and is the root cause of the stand nuke, sit med, stand nuke, sit med gameplay that plagues many casters.

     

    To remedy this, why not allow casters to perform a simple magical ranged auto-attack using certain weapons: 1H Blunt Wand, 2H Blunt Staff.

     

    This would allow an option for priests and mages to auto-attack at ranged while weilding the necessary weapon type.

     

    To further enhance this, these 1H Wands and 2H Staffs could have a damage type associated with them that would affect the auto-attack.


    This post was edited by Ezrael at August 25, 2018 7:10 AM PDT
    • 4 posts
    August 26, 2018 12:47 AM PDT

    It will take more convincing for me to agree that an auto-attack equivalent is necessary for casters. Casters have numerous advantages that melee do not, and I feel they should have a differing playstyle. That still leaves wide-open your concern for a nuke/med mechanic, but I've never been bothered by it personally. 

    • 58 posts
    September 6, 2018 3:07 PM PDT
    I think the concept of casters being able to summon a elemental weapon like the Balrog used in the LoTR movies would be a nice change for a decent damage slow burn fight. Some considerations would be decrease in casting ability, nothing else could be in the primary hand, and lastly if you can hit the mob it can hit you.
    • 2379 posts
    September 7, 2018 3:16 PM PDT

    I think it's generally a bad idea. The auto attack damage from melee attacks isn't "free" damage, it almost always comes at the cost of max ability damage and/or burst potential. Let's not homogenize DPS classes further. 

    • 483 posts
    September 8, 2018 7:02 PM PDT

    Gandalf didn't seem to have a problem swinging a sword :-)

    I don't think there is anything in the game that stops a caster from getting up close and personal with an enemy and swinging away with their weapon. So if your mana management is doing fine and you don't need to meditate, I'm guessing you could auto-attack all you want.

    Clerics even have a passive called Favor of the Order that gives them lifesteal (self heal) for part of the damage they do with Melee attacks. May not be used all the time, but it's possible that a Cleric could keep himself topped up during a fight with AoE just by pounding away with his mace or scepter or whatever he uses :-) One less person he needs to heal.

    • 620 posts
    October 12, 2018 8:58 AM PDT

    Like goofy said, nothing is stopping casters from getting into the fray (aside from sacrificing Mana Regen by not sitting).  With that said, wizards will be allowed to use 1hs (swords - similar to the WoW mage) and I would imagine that a technique for the wiz will be to wait to engage with spells until the target is below a certain % health, so adding a little extra dmg with swing between nukes may be very viable.  All of the other dps casters will have pets to perform sustained dps.  Edit:  I will be both surprised and disappointed if the necro doesn’t have pet options. 


    This post was edited by Darch at October 12, 2018 9:49 AM PDT
    • 40 posts
    February 20, 2019 8:59 PM PST

    Just be careful what you wish for, with "auto attack" damage on casters their ability damage must be lowered so they are not overpowered compared to melee classes....

    • 620 posts
    February 21, 2019 4:57 PM PST

    Caster DPS will likely dominate melee DPS if this is like we expect.  The trade off to melee DPS is 0 rest time / sustainment.


    This post was edited by Darch at February 21, 2019 5:22 PM PST
    • 149 posts
    February 22, 2019 2:05 AM PST

    in my opinion, this is a non issue and can only be proven by parses. If a DPS, both mellee and caster, both fight 1 same mob for the same long duration, their DPS over prolonged periods of time at equal gear level and played at master skill should be roughly the same, regardless of the way you play (meaning with sit/med or whacking a mob).

    And this is really where the truth comes in, there are too many variables. And i do not know of any single person (bots don't count as a person) that can play a character to perfection all the time.

    Also there is something about group make up, if in a group situation a melleee dps joins while the group is optimized for casters, you will find a difference. Same thing the other way around.

    So all in all, i'm not worried or bothered by the mechanic as it is somewhat traditional and has worked just fine in many games in the past. It all comes down to preference of playstyle.

    • 1567 posts
    February 22, 2019 8:27 AM PST

    Darch said:

    Caster DPS will likely dominate melee DPS if this is like we expect.  The trade off to melee DPS is 0 rest time / sustainment.

    Unless Casters face the same issues in EQ1 where the higher the level of the NPC compared to the Caster the greater the reduction in damage output by the Caster. NPC scaling has never been kind to Casters while melee suffer a much lower reduction.

    Then there is the issue of lower overall DPS from melee if the weapon wielder is a caster.  Typically the skill caps are far lower, weapons have lower damage stats, strength of the class is usually quite low as well. All of this means melee DPS from a caster is negligble at best. Nothing that really needs auto-attack.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at February 22, 2019 8:28 AM PST
    • 49 posts
    February 22, 2019 9:24 AM PST

    Adding a caster version of Auto Attack makes since to me, but woulnd't say it's *needed*. Auto attack has never really been used for any real damage, it just seem to be a way to chip away and be "doing something" between your actually skills where you do your real damage.

    Melee folks get to hit the mobs with low damage swings, while waiting for their big hits.

    Archers fire off random arrows for minimal damage, while waiting to activate their cool high damage shots.

    Why not let casters use their wands and staves to auto fire weak no cost "cantrips" that do minimal damage while they wait for their big spells? (if balance is an issue, maybe the big spells get toned down a bit (a thought I know casters won't be too happy about))

    • 2379 posts
    February 22, 2019 10:34 AM PST

    Again, this is how you homogenize the play/feel of classes. 

    • 1039 posts
    February 24, 2019 11:09 AM PST

    Ezrael said:

    One of the biggest differences between casters and melee is that melee use damage abilities while constantly autoattacking for free damage, while casters only cast spells and don't have an auto-attack for free damage.

    This can cause a lot of disparities and issues in burst vs sustained damage, and is the root cause of the stand nuke, sit med, stand nuke, sit med gameplay that plagues many casters.

     

    To remedy this, why not allow casters to perform a simple magical ranged auto-attack using certain weapons: 1H Blunt Wand, 2H Blunt Staff.

     

    This would allow an option for priests and mages to auto-attack at ranged while weilding the necessary weapon type.

     

    To further enhance this, these 1H Wands and 2H Staffs could have a damage type associated with them that would affect the auto-attack.

     

     I don't think this is that type of game. That is, a game where trying to inch out every bit of DPS from every class is the focus, where all classes desparately try to focus on DPS. 

    Fact is, the entire argument of DPS is in my opinon a failure of this game to even consider (yes, I know this is in direct objection to their DPS Role design). If DPS is a focus, everyone wil focus on it and this is contrary to what I think the original concepts of EQ was about. DPS wasn't even a role, it was a manufactured role by the community in a need to catagorize classes. 

    This is the natural result of where we end up with such roles. 

     


    This post was edited by Tanix at February 24, 2019 11:12 AM PST
    • 58 posts
    February 26, 2019 5:14 PM PST
    I like this idea: I never play castes because I get bored going through a cast rotation. Maybe set it where they have to allocate concentration from normal spell casting to be able maintain the attack. Let them use dexterity for attacks with an ice bow, lightning whip or actually throw a fireball. I could just see a out of practice wizard hurling fireballs.

    First throw hits the mob -100 hp.
    Second throw hits the tank in the back of the helmet.
    Third throw, satin curtains burn fast.
    Forth throw there goes his familiar.
    Cleric begins shouting “For the love of Brel stop”!!!