Forums » The Cleric

Reithal's Luminous Shield = CH

    • 34 posts
    July 12, 2018 12:35 AM PDT

    I was hoping that Pantheon won't repeat the severe mistake that EQ did when it introduced the complete heal. Reithal's Luminous Shield is very similar to complete heal, it's only limited to the HPs of the cleric... which means that clerics will just need to stack HPs.

    A complete heal totally destroys game balance. All mobs have to be designed with this abilty in mind in order to not trivialize the game for groups that have it. And when that is the case, groups that *don't* have that will be unable to compete. This doesn't affect low level play very much, but at higher levels it's very problematic. Such an ability is so overpowered that it will be mandatory in any raid or high level group. And the mobs will have ridicoulus stats in order to be able to compete with such healing.

    Even if that abilty will have long casting times, that would just mean that you need more clerics on your raid. It *has* to go.

    Please, Pantheon, do not repeat that design flaw that was in EQ. If you really want to have such an ability, the cooldown would need to be very long... like one hour or so. Similar to the lay hands that the old school paladin had.

    • 1163 posts
    July 12, 2018 1:57 AM PDT

    It does more look like a lay on hand ability for emergencies than a rotationnal spell. I expect to see a long cooldown on it, to balance for the strong heal it will provide.

    • 48 posts
    July 12, 2018 2:23 AM PDT

    While I totally agree CH is an awful mechanic and don't want to see that style of play repeated there is only a small reason to believe Reithal's Luminous Shield will cause the same issues.

    1) Raids might be capped to number of players

    2) It could have a very long CD

    3) It could cost your entire Celestial Power meter

    4) It's unlikely clerics will be able to stack enough HP gear along with maintaing mana etc to compare to that of a tank so it wont actually complete heal

    5) They've gone to a lot of effort to give the healers a big tool kit - surely they wouldn't undo all that by making this spell the same as CH was in EQ

     

    • 46 posts
    July 12, 2018 8:03 AM PDT

    I had commented in Discord minutes before the newsletter that I was confident we'd see no CH and yet here we are.  It's a difficult thing for them to balance as no other heal scales indefinitely, and drawbacks like long cast time and/or recast time can be mitigated just by stacking clerics.  Perhaps it's incredibly mana efficient.  Perhaps it requries a bunch of Celestial Power and can't be cast again and again in an encounter.  Perhaps the CD is longer than an encounter would last anyway.

    I hope we see something that doesn't turn this into the go-to raid heal and marginalize other healers to just spot heals and synergy effects.

    • 246 posts
    July 12, 2018 8:40 AM PDT

    Don't forget Coalescence which seems to work roughly the same way.

     

    If you used them together with the right timing you wouldn't even have to stack HP to get a complete heal.

    • 697 posts
    July 12, 2018 9:12 AM PDT

    I think CH is fine for out of combat.

     

    • 2038 posts
    July 12, 2018 11:14 AM PDT

    Too early to sound the alarms since we have no numbers for reference, and cleric buffed out might still end up only having 60% of the HP of a tank. CH was so good because it had no cooldown and was extremely mana efficient compared to other heals, so Luminous Shield might be an emergency button but otherwise a poor choice due to excessive costs of mana and/or celestial power (same for Coalescence).

     

    By the same measure people could also jump to conclusions and assume an equally "OP" strat would be stacking druids and chaining Hirode's Chrysalis ensuring no tank ever dies. But we have no numbers to go by nor do we know how common AoE/groupwide damage will be.

    • 177 posts
    July 12, 2018 1:16 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Too early to sound the alarms since we have no numbers for reference, and cleric buffed out might still end up only having 60% of the HP of a tank. CH was so good because it had no cooldown and was extremely mana efficient compared to other heals, so Luminous Shield might be an emergency button but otherwise a poor choice due to excessive costs of mana and/or celestial power (same for Coalescence).

     

    By the same measure people could also jump to conclusions and assume an equally "OP" strat would be stacking druids and chaining Hirode's Chrysalis ensuring no tank ever dies. But we have no numbers to go by nor do we know how common AoE/groupwide damage will be.

     

    I agree with you. I like how Reithal's luminous shield works. Cleric will also have more HP than other healers, it makes sense to me, they are a melee class, have melee passive, wear plate.

    Chrysalis will most likely have a duration and will expire. I hope it will not be an anbility that require no skill. In Eq2, we had a similar ability, if time not correctly, it was waisted. When a fight would turn bad, as a healer, you had to understand that using all your emergencies ressources would not be enought, and in a quick instant you would use that ability to protect the main tank from dying, if used successfully, it would heal the main tank as a result, and woulld give the healer enough time to recall heals and protection and save the fight. It was a high skill ability and the cooldown was pretty long. 

    • 64 posts
    July 13, 2018 7:54 AM PDT

    I don't think it is a problem if it has a cooldown.  I see it more like Lay on Hands type ability.  Many games have had a 'complete' heal like this, only EQ had a constantly castable one. Pretty sure it is the emergency heal button.  I mean even a cooldown as little as 5 mins would rule it out as the next CH - in Vanguard Paladins Lay on Hands was 5 min cooldown and free to cast on other players, it was awesome but no one was rushing to get an army of them together to heal with (and their other heals were pretty good too)

    • 74 posts
    July 13, 2018 10:32 AM PDT

    "Stacking class x" is really not a huge concern when you're talking about healers.  There comes a point where taking more is incredibly counter-productive due to their limited damage capability.  This is especially true if the high powered enemies have any sort of enrage timers but even without them groups aren't going to be on the "we'll take all day but eventually it will die plan.  Especially if they keep the "most damage done" method of determining loot as a group could stroll along after your tank has generated a massive hate amount and go balls out and swipe the kill credit.

    • 121 posts
    July 13, 2018 10:32 PM PDT

    I agree it is too early to judge how powerful ( over or under ) this ability is. 

    • 64 posts
    July 14, 2018 11:58 AM PDT
    It is also worth noting that CH was broken because it was an efficient heal. In Pantheon, not only do we not know its cooldown which could prevent its use as default heal, we don't know its mana cost - it could be a very inefficient heal used as a last resort
    • 80 posts
    August 9, 2018 10:21 AM PDT

    You could also implement a diminishing return mechanic to avoid stacking Clerics, or a debuff that prevents chain casting on the tank.