Forums » Pantheon Classes

What is a rez?

    • 167 posts
    June 22, 2018 8:54 AM PDT

    Browsing through the forums I came across a few posts that sparked my imagination and got me thinking about what a rez is, and who should really have the ability to reattach a soul to a body.

    In every MMORPG I have played that has the resurrection spell, it is very iconic to the Cleric or Priest class. I find this bazaar because of the idea of a Priest or Cleric being an individual that has devoted themselves to the worship of a soul entity. The idea is that through divine intervention or blessing, the Priest is able to return life to the dead... but how? and why? If I am a priest of an opposing diety, why would your diety bother to bestow life back into my corpse? The Priest's unconditional resurrection ability would only make since if they were trying to resurrect someone that worshipped the same or a friendly diety, or was utterly nuetral.

    I believe a rethinking of "Resurrection" is in order. Here are my thoughts looking at it from a point of view other than the caster or target:

    Clerics - should have the ability to resurrect, but there are punishments (debuffs) depending on the faction towards the caster's diety. Also, the actual recovery is dependent on the caster's faction towards their own diety. These punishments scale with the faction towards the diety granting the resurrection:
    Max KoS - You cannot use your class resource for X minutes and stats are dropped by Y% for X minutes;
    Indifference - No bonus or minus (just like 50% health back or whatever base rez spell does)
    Max Ally - You regenerate a small portion of health every second for X minutes, you are immunte to damage for Y (like 3 or something) seconds.

    Shamans - should have the ability to resurrect through spiritual communion with souls, weaving the soul back into the body. Since the seperation of soul and body is a harsh, but liberating experience for the soul, naturally there would be reluctance to merge again.
    There is a rather long caster time associated with the weaving of the soul back into the body.
    However, if done with proficiency and focus, the body could return back to a near-pre-death form with minimal loss (greater xp recovery).
    If the proficiency or focus is neglected, the body could suffer after-effects of reduced physical and mental abilities (stat debuffs) for a duration and may not retain as many memories (less xp recovery).

    Druid (Speculation) - we do not know enough about druids to determine if or how they would be able to resurrect

    Necromancer (Speculation) - by definition of name we can assume they are controls of the dead (souls). They should be able to use their control of the souls to forcibly place a soul in the body of a dead ally. This process could have an array of effects, as often times necromancers care little for distinguishing between souls and are generally malicious and sadistic by nature. This resurrection has a chance to not recover any exp, but is very fast casting and grants a bonus to STR and CON while reducing DEX INT WIS and CHA for a duration. The necromancer grabs a soul at random and forcibly ties it to the body. Reinforcement of the body prevents the soul from escaping for the duration of the reinforcment. Once the reinforment fades, the soul will escape, unless it was the original soul of the body (random chance). In which case, the user recovers a little bit of exp.

    Any other cool ideas for resurrection? :)

    • 32 posts
    June 22, 2018 9:11 AM PDT

    These are awesome ideas, and I agree totally that they make sense from a LORE perspective.

     

    But they'd break the game! Think of how awful they'd be if your partners happen to be of opposing deities. Alternatively, I suppose, it'd force people to only play with characters of their own deities, which...could be really interesting.

     

     

    But, if we want immersion, flavor, etc.  WITHOUT the hassle, then you could just get a debuff of some flavor - " Aellos' Glower " - "The elven God did not appreciate rezzing your awful self," etc. for 10 minutes. 

     

    Alternatively, if they really hate you, maybe they only rezz you with 1% health - *shrug*

    • 2575 posts
    June 22, 2018 10:47 AM PDT

    Kargen said:

    In every MMORPG I have played that has the resurrection spell, it is very iconic to the Cleric or Priest class. I find this bazaar because of the idea of a Priest or Cleric being an individual that has devoted themselves to the worship of a soul entity. The idea is that through divine intervention or blessing, the Priest is able to return life to the dead... but how? and why? If I am a priest of an opposing diety, why would your diety bother to bestow life back into my corpse? The Priest's unconditional resurrection ability would only make since if they were trying to resurrect someone that worshipped the same or a friendly diety, or was utterly nuetral.

    It doesn't seem too unrealistic to me. Often (not always) the deities that clerics divine a resurrection from are benevolent so it doesn't matter to them who is being raised, also it could be seen as a means of possibly converting the raised person by showing them both the power and mercy of whichever god(s). 

     

    That said, I don't think any of the gods really care who is alive or dead and resurrecting someone isn't a big deal to them. I don't see anything to suggest the gods get anything from having more people follow them beyond perhaps personal satisfaction. Also I don't imagine the "souls" of people really go anywhere once someone dies (which is why I don't suppose they care one way or another), the gods don't seem to have realms of their own or any sort of heavens or hells otherwise. 

    • 1665 posts
    June 22, 2018 12:55 PM PDT

    I like the ideas, a fresh take on something that is pretty standard in MMOs.  I would like to look at your premise for suggesting them:

     

    Kargen said:

    In every MMORPG I have played that has the resurrection spell, it is very iconic to the Cleric or Priest class. I find this bazaar because of the idea of a Priest or Cleric being an individual that has devoted themselves to the worship of a soul entity. The idea is that through divine intervention or blessing, the Priest is able to return life to the dead... but how? and why? If I am a priest of an opposing diety, why would your diety bother to bestow life back into my corpse? The Priest's unconditional resurrection ability would only make since if they were trying to resurrect someone that worshipped the same or a friendly diety, or was utterly nuetral.

    This could really hold true for anything a cleric does.  Why heal someone who worships an opposing diety, why cure their poison, why buff their armor class?  In general, most games that explain it in any way make it so that the diety doesn't actually do any of this, they just provide the cleric with the power to do so.  The cleric is channeling the power granted by their diety and using it for a specific effect.

    I would also like to state that I wouldn't want any player<->player interaction to be based on either player's faction.  The reason for this is groups will start denying people of certain factions and on raids it will be a pain to figure out which clerics buff/heal/resurrect people of various factions.

    Keep the ideas coming though, I really like what you did with the other classes.

    • 167 posts
    June 22, 2018 3:21 PM PDT

    kelenin said:

    I like the ideas, a fresh take on something that is pretty standard in MMOs.  I would like to look at your premise for suggesting them:

     

    Kargen said:

    In every MMORPG I have played that has the resurrection spell, it is very iconic to the Cleric or Priest class. I find this bazaar because of the idea of a Priest or Cleric being an individual that has devoted themselves to the worship of a soul entity. The idea is that through divine intervention or blessing, the Priest is able to return life to the dead... but how? and why? If I am a priest of an opposing diety, why would your diety bother to bestow life back into my corpse? The Priest's unconditional resurrection ability would only make since if they were trying to resurrect someone that worshipped the same or a friendly diety, or was utterly nuetral.

     

    This could really hold true for anything a cleric does.  Why heal someone who worships an opposing diety, why cure their poison, why buff their armor class?  In general, most games that explain it in any way make it so that the diety doesn't actually do any of this, they just provide the cleric with the power to do so.  The cleric is channeling the power granted by their diety and using it for a specific effect.

    I would also like to state that I wouldn't want any player<->player interaction to be based on either player's faction.  The reason for this is groups will start denying people of certain factions and on raids it will be a pain to figure out which clerics buff/heal/resurrect people of various factions.

    Keep the ideas coming though, I really like what you did with the other classes.

    Yes I concede that my premise was a bit too narrow-minded. I agree with your idea of the priest being a wielder of divine powers granted to them by the gods. However, for arguements sake, Innoruuk in EQ didn't strike me as a benevolant diety, but yet Dark Elf was one of the most popular Clerics classes in EQ (mainly because they just looked sweet!), equating to Innoruuk's divine (corrupt?) power bringing back the an abnormal number of lives for the God of Fear. Furthering that arguement, I would imagine, in Pantheon, diety is going to play a rather large role in the lore of the various races and their hatred or fondness towards each other. I hope we continue to see great things coming from the devs there :)

     


    This post was edited by Kargen at June 24, 2018 1:56 PM PDT
    • 1458 posts
    June 23, 2018 9:54 PM PDT
    Seems like you are over thinking it.
    • 141 posts
    June 24, 2018 6:42 AM PDT

    Interesting ideas but i think rez is a kinda common spell right now all healers and paladins and perhaps necromancer will get them thats over 1/3 of the classes to have them 

    so they are not rare ?

    • 1581 posts
    June 24, 2018 8:29 AM PDT

    I like your cleric idea- although it is a bit complex. Maybe it can be simplified down to a rez, but with a huge faction hit

    The shaman idea is great! I see it as a no exp gain, but a return to where you were- but lonf casting time.

    As far as druids, the trope is regrowth, so maybe a full rez but skills take longer to come back (may become a sandbox way to exploit skill-ups, die, get druid rez, skills drop, make high level combines while skill is low to get easier skill-ups, then when skills have "re-grown" back to your original state you carry ovber and add on rthe skill-ups. so like piercing was 210, druid rez brings exp back but piercing to 150- you stab a monster getting 2 skill ups- when skills come back up you are now 212)

    The necro rez idea of forcing souls had me think of a way to.....Monster mission. I think that would be the coolest thing for necro's since call of the hero for mages. Kill snake, snake dead, group member dies later, necro "forces" sould of group member into the snake, Player plays as the snake. Not just an illusuion, but where the player needs to learn and work with the snakes spell set and abilities- kinda like a monster mission! might get too hairy though since the player would need to then be killed again so the necro can thrust the soul into the players body. ( the concept was similar to the game "Omicron, the Nomad soul" ) Or, for the necro player only- a kind of epic quest where the necro players soul is thrust into various bodies where they have to learn about how they die. This means the necro will die at every phase of their epic journey as they go through their epic quest, learning how to save their own soul so they can thrust it back into their own body...or body of choice.

    • 167 posts
    June 24, 2018 1:56 PM PDT

    Manouk said:

    The necro rez idea of forcing souls had me think of a way to.....Monster mission. I think that would be the coolest thing for necro's since call of the hero for mages. Kill snake, snake dead, group member dies later, necro "forces" sould of group member into the snake, Player plays as the snake. Not just an illusuion, but where the player needs to learn and work with the snakes spell set and abilities- kinda like a monster mission! might get too hairy though since the player would need to then be killed again so the necro can thrust the soul into the players body. ( the concept was similar to the game "Omicron, the Nomad soul" )

    Love this idea! sounds fun. But I am not sure how it would play with groups and corpse rot. Maybe it could be a "soul-stripping" ability, where you can temporarily displace the soul of a living player into another body where the player is then forced to use the skills available to the target. During the effect, the player's body would fall to the ground FD. The spell would cancel if the host body was killed, the host made their saving throw (similar to charm break, as i'm sure the host soul would be rather aggresive towards the invader) or the spell's duration was met (maybe 30 seconds or 1 minute). This could act as a form of crowd control and dps at the sacrifice of one player's time. I will let you guys come to your own conclusion of the usefullness of a spell like this :) I personally can think of many situations this would be a very useful spell without being a "must have" or "never use that again" spell.

    keep the ideas rolling! 


    This post was edited by Kargen at June 24, 2018 1:57 PM PDT
    • 167 posts
    June 24, 2018 2:05 PM PDT

    Aqua said:

    Interesting ideas but i think rez is a kinda common spell right now all healers and paladins and perhaps necromancer will get them thats over 1/3 of the classes to have them 

    so they are not rare ?

    I am sorry if I misworded something to indicate I thought they were rare. That was not my intention. It is fine by me if 1/3 of the classes have them, I was just teasing the idea of flavor, individuality, risk and reward into rezzes rather than they all do the exact same thing. I like the idea of seeking a certain classes rez ability for various situations. Maybe the run is extremely long to get back and you need someone who can rez quickly so you can finish the monster off so you dont wipe, and you are willing deal with not getting max exp back from the rez, or put up with a debuff from the rez. The trick is trying to make sure one type of rez isn't overly powered or favored versus the others. 

    • 167 posts
    June 24, 2018 2:17 PM PDT

    Manouk said:

    As far as druids, the trope is regrowth, so maybe a full rez but skills take longer to come back (may become a sandbox way to exploit skill-ups, die, get druid rez, skills drop, make high level combines while skill is low to get easier skill-ups, then when skills have "re-grown" back to your original state you carry ovber and add on rthe skill-ups. so like piercing was 210, druid rez brings exp back but piercing to 150- you stab a monster getting 2 skill ups- when skills come back up you are now 212)

    Really good point on the druids there with the regrowth trope.

    The skill exploit can easily be avoided by having the code check against the "real" skill level versus the "buffed/debuffed" skill level. Otherwise, if you have a buff that gives you +5 1hb skill and you were at 95/100 skill, it would think you are actually at 100/100 and you wouldn't be able gain those last 5 points until the buff wore off.

    I wanted to further this idea on the regrowth factor with:
    Druids rezzes would be a form of "blessing" that regerates the health of a fallen player up to 25% of their HP over 30 seconds or something (doesn't regen if HP goes over 25%). If the player takes a deathblow with the blessing on they are brought to 1hp and the blessing fades. If the blessing is cast on a living player, the duration is halved and the spell acts as a death save. The Druid rez is a fast casting rez with a high resource requirement.