Umbra said:disposalist said:I'd like it if VR somehow stopped it from being possible to parse logs even, at least until well after real time.
I've played MUDs that didn't even use 'numbers' to indicate damage or stats etc. It was all based on phrases such as 'critical hit, powerful hit, glancing blow'.... Armor was designated as, 'sold armor, flimsy armor, mediocre armor' etc. Really made it fun messing around with items to work out which was better and which was similar but had other neat perks associated with it.
Numbers and min/maxing can sometimes just be a downer.
Yeah me too, the max was DESTROY hehe.
Very much a 'Nay' on this one.
It may have been worded better if you asked if players want them in Pantheon. The problem with MMOs after 2nd Gen was that people felt like they had to use them.
People have gotten used to playing the UI and not the game. I can't stress the problem with peer pressure to use 3rd party tools to trivialize or judge another players performance. It becomes toxic.
So with that said, the majority polled are going to say yes because even someone like me who hates them but had to use them to raid like me would have to say yes to this.
If you're polling for direction in the game, do not use these results unless you word it differently.
Nephretiti said:I am not sure why, but I have never used any add-on for any game. That being said, I am not against them in any way. There are a lot of folks out there with health difficulties that actually DO need these in one way or another and I applaud the efforts of those that are out there making these for those that need them. If you don't actually need them - I am not against you either. I love when a DevTeam makes it so that an end-user is able to make small adjustments to his client that allows them to enjoy a game more fully. I just prefer to enjoy the game through the eyes of the developer.
I do not feel like this is an "add-on" so much as accessibility options. Those should be part of the client. Changing chat font size for those who have vision issues. Accounting for input devices to assist with those who have disabilities.
Add-Ons to me are more about taking data from the client and running code on it to present it in another fassion. Floating text, flashing messages on screen based on an event, DPS meters, etc.
Changing the UI to help with accessibility issues is not an "add-on", that can all be done via client UI skinning and standard game configuration of the UI.
Yes, with limitations. I like add-ons for cosmetic and quality of life purposes. I dislike add-ons that aid in combat or situational awareness. A UI is a fact of life when it comes to games, especially MMOs, so having the ability to improve upon them with add-ons is almost a necessity.
It depends on the addon.
I’m all for addons that allow me to move UI elements around on the screen, resize them, and so on, particularly if the base UI does not include this functionality. For example, I don’t want, while playing a healer, to not be able to move the health bars out of the upper left corner of the screen, where they’re so far from the rest of the action going on.
On the other hand, things like WoW’s Deadly Boss Mods are something I’d rather not see. I don’t want to see Pantheon go down the path of WoW where something like DBM trivializes encounters to the extent that future encounters need to be designed around the existence of that mod so that new encounters are no longer trivial, thus obligating anyone who wants to do that content on a fair footing to get that mod themselves.
Yes, the ability to test rotations and fine toon my character is a must this goes beyond just a min/max mind set but a general view of how one knows there character and perform to the best of ones ability.
The ability as a raid leader to see who is performing and who is afk for 50 % of the fight , is a must. This can be pushed even further when dealing with complex scripts or trying to figure out world first encounters with little to no information available.
Also and no to be unsaid :
This does not even include when we are able to produce evidence that something is broken that the developers are unaware of and then replicate it.
Dps parsers are nothing more then a calculator for the combat log.
I am a Yes, with qualifications though.
In the original EQ1 days I used a audio trigger tool that helped alot, it parsed chat text and I could create custom notifications about a combat event I might have missed - such as a stun wearing off or a mezz breaking.
Generally combat chat is too chaotic to notice it, but having the audio triggers was amazing.
In Vanguard I used DPS crunchers to help me determine the best combinations of attacks to apply at specific times, which helped me become much more efficient at DPS as a Ranger.
Kilsin said:Do you use add-ons (Dps and Aggro meters, Healer helpers etc.) in other MMORPGs and if so, what do you like about them? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Twitter Poll: https://twitter.com/PantheonMMO/status/1008665715367280640
Yes I use add-ons in Wow. DPS meter as well as Event Horizon for my affliction Warlock.
What do I like about them? Absolutely nothing! They are required for raiding, they alienate good people that can't "keep up" by some other people's standards, they alienate good people that just want to have fun in a virtual world that aren't computer savvy enough to install them and get them working. They require me to spend hours on the phone trying to walk some people threw how to find them, how to download and install them so that they can keep up and join us.
IF Pantheon is being built for End Game Raiding then they will be great... if it's a Virtual World the I hope it has few if any add-ons and none that will give any player an advantage.
Absolutely not. It's a disgusting concept for games designed with try hards in mind. Not to mention being forced to download 20+ updates and keep everything working so you will be 'allowed to participate'. You are at a disadvantage if you don't use them at all times in order to prevent mediocre players from appearing better than you because they have notifications, warnings, alarms, map locations, etc. popping out the wazoo. I'd like to actually learn the game, not play who can 'menu' better.
In areas that won't effect me as much, groups and raids will require X amount of Y or you are not invited or will be banned from returning. It's a stupid concept for people who are obsessed with themselves and it separates the community. People will eventually start talking in numbers and not individuals.
Design your game well and we won't need addons.
Nope. They end up causing divisions in the community. Look at WoW and the GearScore era, and now Raider IO. Addon's that stop the very people needing the gear from the instances/mythic+ not getting a group as everyone wants the fastest and easiest run.
I feel it's counter to building a community too. If add-ons were allowed how long till someone developed an LFG or map addon.
A guild I used to be in would even decline guildies if they had a low GS, rather than helping them get the gear.
I also think it makes lazy players. You take away the addons and the majority of WoW players would be lost.
So please no add-ons! They become crutches and impediments to skilful playing.
I have noticed a consistent trend in my MMO Journey that suggests that add-ons lead to a less fulfilling experience. I don't mind a DPS Parser. Anything beyond that is whack, and that includes triggered sound effects when certain events go off. Experienced that in WoW and it was 100% required in PVP. I like to think that keeping track of a bunch of different game variables should be viewed as a skill. If we can circumvent that by making images/sounds pop up to signify certain effects or changes that we otherwise weren't paying attention to, it's easy mode. Oldschool all the way. If the game is programmed to allow us to track various pieces of information I'm okay with it but I don't like the idea of players expanding on that. We should play the game the way it's meant to be played. Limited UI reconfiguration is a slight exception but that would still fall under "the way it's meant to be played" if some form of customization is desired.
I'll vote in the poll, but I'd also like to go ahead and throw my 'No' vote here on the forum also. I have lots of reasons; many of which have already been posted by others in this thread.
For the most part though, a lot of my reasons would be solved by simply grouping with close friends and gaming with a community who didn't require mods from members. I don't want to know your gear score. I don't want something like Deadly Boss Mods playing the game for my friends. I don't care if your DPS is a little lower than average. I just want to have fun with my friends and I can have fun while killing super fast... Or slow... Or doing corpse runs because we can't break a spawn. So, mods will never get in my way of having fun and I'll just be sure to game with other likeminded people in that regard.
I don't have twitter and I am not going to sign up just to vote in a poll.
Huge NO, especially to damage meters or combat log parsers.
Combat logs and parsers are the fuel that drives nerf/buff campaigns and arm chair game development by the player base. Keeping parsers and combat logs out of the game will save the Visionary Realms design staff an enormous amount of headache, time and money down the road.
At the heart of it add ons are tools that players make to give them an edge in playing the game that was not accounted for in the design of the content. The kind of player driven optimizations that add ons and parsers represent ultimately sucks the fun out of the game as it diminishes the fantasy and mystique the designers create and replaces it with hard numerical analysis alone. Player add ons always place optimizations ahead of immersion.
I think the furthest I would go with add-ons is say modify the XP bar to show your percentage left, or something like that.
Considering there will be efforts to hide information from the client, I doubt there will be much to be gained other than through log parsing. I wouldn't do that on a normal basis.
The poll responses look like they exhibit bias.
59%Yes, I use Add-ons
I think that most people have an extremely negative opinion of addons widely based upon experiences in wow. When wow decided to start changing the game to focus on a more casual player is when you started to see a change in player mentality as well. I myself, have never required a pug to have any addons in order to group or raid with me. So long as they perform. If they don't. We would get in voice and talk it out. If they couldnt fix the issues that's the only time I looked to remove them. I am typically a very high level player in most games (and a pretty big elitist also) but that doesnt mean I'm unwilling to work with the "lesser" community of players.
People see damage meters as a negative tool because they feel that in the past it has caused issues such as being removed from groups or raids etc. This happened due to the mentality shift in wow also. As much as I admit to being an elitist. There have been countless times I have used damage meters to figure out why a random pug was so bad and attempt to help them fix their dps issie in order to remain in the raid. Not everyone, including high level players, just wants to kick out the bad players. Some people actually want to try and help players improve.
The community is going to be the ones that determine how addons are utilized and to what extent they make their way into the game. The sheer nature of how the game is played creates a much more group centric and social community than the extremely solo based game like wow. Therefore you should see addons handled in different ways.
ALSO. I'd like to point out the humor in having a poll about addons... on essentially what is an addon for life...(twitter) lol.