Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

the intense need for "clever" and unique experiences

    • 643 posts
    June 11, 2018 11:21 AM PDT

    I was reading the post about underwater zones and the discussion revolved around Kedge Keep.  That got me to thinking about how unique and magical some zone-experiences were.

    Think about Kedge Keep:  before that, all MMORPG zones were essentially flat 2-dimensional surfaces that you traversed.   KK created a truly 3-dimensional zone.  For those that ever played it, it was like playing Descent or Descent-II which, I htink, were the first true three dimensional battle games, where there was no frame of reference - no horizon or up-down-left-right.  Everything was relative in 3D space.

    Kedge Keep was totally unique in that it had that *FEEL* to it as you traveled up and down shafts.  And in the context of that zone's content, all that spatial experience made sense to the zone you were in.

    Similarly, Plane of Mischief, was like an evail Alice-in-Wonderland experience with insvisible traps, one way doors, bizarre enemies that were surreal and unexpected.  Again, this was totally new to the MMORPG genre and the zone-experience made total sense knowing that you were in Bristlebane's home.

    Those overall experiences were so suprising - it was like seeing color TV for the first time or listening to a talkie-movie, or wearing 3D glasses  for the first time.  These were totally new experiences.

    I know you can't create new things over again, but I desperately hope that Pantheon has a way to get some of that new-experience magic in Terminus.  I know the micro-climates and the reputation system will be all new.  But I also hope we go somewhere, see something never before seen, feel wonder like we've never felt before.

     

     

    • 1479 posts
    June 11, 2018 11:30 AM PDT

    Maybe you want to rewrite that phrase :

     

     before that, all MMORPG zones were essentially flat 2-dimensional surfaces that you traversed. 

     

    I mean, it's not like there were more than one or TWO mmo's before EQ.

    Interesting thoughts however, kedge keeps had some very odd but imaginative layers, even if I discovered the zone when Wizzies were already able to MB phini in one shot.

    • 1921 posts
    June 11, 2018 12:04 PM PDT

    In the interests of historical accuracy, Meridian 59, in 1995, had a 3D world.  With buildings, bridges, jumping, zoning, all of that stuff seen in EQ1 in 1999.  I mean sure, it's only ~4 years.. :)

    • 1860 posts
    June 11, 2018 12:06 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

     even if I discovered the zone when Wizzies were already able to MB phini in one shot.

    Lol when did that become a thing?

    • 1479 posts
    June 11, 2018 12:31 PM PDT

    philo said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

     even if I discovered the zone when Wizzies were already able to MB phini in one shot.

    Lol when did that become a thing?

     

    I think during very early pop or luclin era, when AA were added and people started gearing toward extrême ManaBurn damage throught stacking + mana items. Phinigel had relatively low HP for a "boss", and some wizzies were perma camping him to sell the robe of the kedges MQ.

     

    Gorenaire too , fell to I think, two wizards with Manaburn, sometimes during the course of expansions.

    • 1120 posts
    June 11, 2018 3:26 PM PDT

    I'm sorry.  But I disagree.   Kedge keep was a terrible zone in eq.  With the way that spellcasting and channeling and swimming worked.  It was just terrible.   

    The underwater zones in wow arent bad because of how the combat in that game is handled and how swimming is managed.  

    But no.  Kedge keep is terrible.

    And yes. Phinny was easily soloed by wizards once they were at a certain point.  I dont think it was as early as pop though. It was when mana burn became mana blast and such.  He only had 16k hp iirc, but super high regen.

    Gorenaire had the same hp as talendor and sev, she was just killed less because her loot table matched that of vox and wasnt as good.  But all 3 could be killed by several wizards at once.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at June 11, 2018 5:12 PM PDT
    • 643 posts
    June 11, 2018 6:25 PM PDT

    Porygon said:

    I'm sorry.  But I disagree.   Kedge keep was a terrible zone in eq.  With the way that spellcasting and channeling and swimming worked.  It was just terrible.  ....

     

     

    you are completely missing the point.  You are hung up on the mechanics of how the gameplay works.  I am not talking about which buttons you mash to attack or cast a spell or anything.

     

    I am talking about big picture, 50,000 foot view, brand new originality and EXPERIENCE in something new.  Kedge Keep (and POM) were the pinnacle of unique content experience.  Almost all other zones are just cookie cutter variations on their same thing.

    • 643 posts
    June 11, 2018 6:28 PM PDT

    vjek said:

    In the interests of historical accuracy, Meridian 59, in 1995, had a 3D world.  With buildings, bridges, jumping, zoning, all of that stuff seen in EQ1 in 1999.  I mean sure, it's only ~4 years.. :)

     

    No, you also are completely missing the point.  I am not talking about vertical height changes (every game after Wolfenstein 3D had those).

    I am talking about 3D relativity. Content that happens in six degrees of freedom not just on a planar field of action that merely moves vertically as you traverse it.

    If you've ever played Descent I/II you will know exactly what I am talking about.

     

     

     

    • 643 posts
    June 11, 2018 6:29 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Maybe you want to rewrite that phrase :

      before that, all MMORPG zones were essentially flat 2-dimensional surfaces that you traversed. 

    I mean, it's not like there were more than one or TWO mmo's before EQ...

     

    Yes of course - but every virtual world game (RPG, FPS, MMO, MMORPG is what I am referring to)

    • 257 posts
    June 11, 2018 9:52 PM PDT

    fazool said:

    I am talking about 3D relativity. Content that happens in six degrees of freedom not just on a planar field of action that merely moves vertically as you traverse it.

    If you've ever played Descent I/II you will know exactly what I am talking about.

     

    Ah man, I loved Descent. I played it waaaaaaay too much back in the mid 1990's Didn't know there was a Descent 2.


    This post was edited by Retsof at June 11, 2018 9:53 PM PDT
    • 316 posts
    June 11, 2018 10:52 PM PDT

    Hear, hear!

    • 1120 posts
    June 12, 2018 3:16 PM PDT

    fazool said:

    Porygon said:

    I'm sorry.  But I disagree.   Kedge keep was a terrible zone in eq.  With the way that spellcasting and channeling and swimming worked.  It was just terrible.  ....

     

     

    you are completely missing the point.  You are hung up on the mechanics of how the gameplay works.  I am not talking about which buttons you mash to attack or cast a spell or anything.

     

    I am talking about big picture, 50,000 foot view, brand new originality and EXPERIENCE in something new.  Kedge Keep (and POM) were the pinnacle of unique content experience.  Almost all other zones are just cookie cutter variations on their same thing.

    Theres where I think your wrong.  Kedge was only unique because it was underwater which allowed it to be as expansive as it was.  And because of that reason it was easily one of the worst zones in the game.  If the mechanics dont allow for the zone to be navigated and played in a way that makes for a good experience, than it's not a good zone.

    Also, to say that every zone other than KK and PoM is cookie cutter is being pretty cynical.  There were alot of zones that had unique flavor to them.


    This post was edited by Porygon at June 12, 2018 3:17 PM PDT