Hello All, I was just curious if anyone had actually heard an approxomate time frame for the start of Beta? I understand that the designers are not going hurry things along, and i definately don't want them too, I am just curious if anyone had heard a date associated with Beta start.
Based on whats been said in streams, and most recently by Brad, I would say Alpha to start in November (my assumption) and no word on beta but I would GUESS that beta would be summer 2019.
Brad mentioned recently( a week ago) Pre-alpha nearing the midway point, so I speculate June being midway and mid to late November for pre-alpha IF everything goes as planned.
So dont quote me on any of this as its conjecture and speculation but I feel pretty solidly as reasonably close to the truth.
G12250 said:Hello All, I was just curious if anyone had actually heard an approxomate time frame for the start of Beta? I understand that the designers are not going hurry things along, and i definately don't want them too, I am just curious if anyone had heard a date associated with Beta start.
My prognostication:
Alpha will start on or before December 31, 2018.
Beta will start on or before December 31, 2019.
All guessing aside, which I am sure is fun, when things reach a state of alpha or otherwise is probably going to purely be a function of resources and money.
Frankly they have to have enough content to realistically release an alpha.
Content = bodies * time. Since time (as Einstein proved) is a constant, the only thing that can change is bodies. More bodies require more money. Probably not happening.
I suspect they would also want harvesting and crafting in before alpha, at least in it's early stages anyway.
We have only seen some of the classes fleshed out. Lots of work still to do there. Lots of balancing.
We have seen good parts of 3 dungeons, some of 3 others, maybe 4 (non-dungeon) zones, 1 continent, 21 factions, 150+ NPCs.
They have a lot to do, 6 months seems overly optimistic.
I do not have any idea how many are paid to enter alpha, but last thing they want is thousands flooding in to a (EA) game with very little content. it could be detrimental to perceptions of the game, and thus it's success.
It's better if they control output with their managed streams.
zewtastic said:I do not have any idea how many are paid to enter alpha, but last thing they want is thousands flooding in to a (EA) game with very little content. it could be detrimental to perceptions of the game, and thus it's success.
It's better if they control output with their managed streams.
There will be no early access in any way shape or form. That's not what the alpha or beta will be. Considering that they have already been the most open game developer in the history of gaming, I'd say they are confident in their risk/reward analysis of how their game, content and progress are perceived.
Keno Monster said:zewtastic said:I do not have any idea how many are paid to enter alpha, but last thing they want is thousands flooding in to a (EA) game with very little content. it could be detrimental to perceptions of the game, and thus it's success.
It's better if they control output with their managed streams.
There will be no early access in any way shape or form. That's not what the alpha or beta will be. Considering that they have already been the most open game developer in the history of gaming, I'd say they are confident in their risk/reward analysis of how their game, content and progress are perceived.
Regardless of what they call it, legions of indoctinated players will think of it that way and refer to it that way.
There is an inevitable tension here.
If they wait too long the game is widely viewed as vaporware and it becomes harder to raise whatever additional levels of funding they need. Support both on these forums and elsewhere and activity in the gaming media makes potential investors see interest, and interest means players, and players means money. Support won't last forever if fed by streams and talks but no actual game progress.
If they release a low quality limited content piece of crap word spreads fast regardless of confidentiality agreements. Reporters and blog writers (and people at potential investors) are just as capable as we are of pledging enough for access to alpha or beta. No one expects alpha to be huge and polished but many games have gone into alpha and there is a baseline for what level of size and polish is considered "normal". Fall below that word gets around. Exceed it and word gets around.
If pre-alpha is nearing the halfway point per what was mentioned in this thread - I fear that the predicitions above are too optimistic. That would mean that it would end around the end of the year *if* all goes well. Assume 6 months to get to alpha (you don't just finish pre-alpha and roll alpha out the next week - a lot of work needs to be done) that puts us into the middle of 2019. With good luck beta would be in 2020 and release the same year Gods willing.
Given that pre-alpha started around the end of 2017 I don't see how almost halfway done can be read any other way, at least not if Brad was referring to the length of time it would take, which he might not have been doing.
zewtastic said:Keno Monster said:zewtastic said:I do not have any idea how many are paid to enter alpha, but last thing they want is thousands flooding in to a (EA) game with very little content. it could be detrimental to perceptions of the game, and thus it's success.
It's better if they control output with their managed streams.
There will be no early access in any way shape or form. That's not what the alpha or beta will be. Considering that they have already been the most open game developer in the history of gaming, I'd say they are confident in their risk/reward analysis of how their game, content and progress are perceived.
Regardless of what they call it, legions of indoctinated players will think of it that way and refer to it that way.
You act like it's a semantic issue, it certainly is not.
Brad recently said they are halfway through pre-alpha. He also said elsewhere that alpha will start at the end of the year and that beta will be 2019.
I imagine alpha would last as long as pre-alpha, so I would think beta would start very late 2019. From the point it goes from beta to launch, I can't imagine less than 6 months, so launch is probably late 2020.
Keno Monster said:zewtastic said:Keno Monster said:zewtastic said:I do not have any idea how many are paid to enter alpha, but last thing they want is thousands flooding in to a (EA) game with very little content. it could be detrimental to perceptions of the game, and thus it's success.
It's better if they control output with their managed streams.
There will be no early access in any way shape or form. That's not what the alpha or beta will be. Considering that they have already been the most open game developer in the history of gaming, I'd say they are confident in their risk/reward analysis of how their game, content and progress are perceived.
Regardless of what they call it, legions of indoctinated players will think of it that way and refer to it that way.
You act like it's a semantic issue, it certainly is not.
Well actually it is. you have a large generation of players who have no idea what alpha/beta technically means to software/game development. the terms are synonymous.
@Zew -- Are you a part of that generation? You are using the terms synomynously. I think most people following this game understand the difference because VR has been completely transparent in how they view the testing phases for this game. It seems like you understand the difference between early access and legitimate alpha/beta phases but continue to perpetuate the idea that they are one in the same anyway. I think this is an opportunity to ask yourself whether or not you want to be a part of the solution, or the problem. Again, VR has been quite clear in saying that they will not be offering an early access period. Help us educate the legions of indoctrinated players.
I am not sure that I understand the difference between alpha/beta and early access. In my case I understand traditional alpha and beta quite well but have never played any game on an "early access" basis.
Traditionally beta had two separate phases. One was closed beta - a limited number of people who were approved by the developer got to participate. We often were asked to submit resumes of our gaming experience and the developer picked the people it wanted. Open beta came right before release and as the name indicates anyone could participate. This phase generally tested the capacity of the servers to handle large numbers of people.
Traditionally there was a full wipe after the beta and everyone started fresh at release. Sometimes there was "early access" before release, meaning some people (often those that pre-ordered) got to play a few days or even a week before the official opening, grabbing their choice of names before the crowds arrived.
This was not universal - some games did not have a wipe at all and simply phased beta into release without a wipe.
Never having played on any "early access" basis I am assuming that early access is just a newfangled way of saying open beta with no wipe. Not a new concept by any means. Similar to how some games handled things years ago. You generally need to buy the game, you get to play before official release, and you keep your characters "as is" at release.
Is this more or less correct?
dorotea said:I am not sure that I understand the difference between alpha/beta and early access. In my case I understand traditional alpha and beta quite well but have never played any game on an "early access" basis.
Traditionally beta had two separate phases. One was closed beta - a limited number of people who were approved by the developer got to participate. We often were asked to submit resumes of our gaming experience and the developer picked the people it wanted. Open beta came right before release and as the name indicates anyone could participate. This phase generally tested the capacity of the servers to handle large numbers of people.
Traditionally there was a full wipe after the beta and everyone started fresh at release. Sometimes there was "early access" before release, meaning some people (often those that pre-ordered) got to play a few days or even a week before the official opening, grabbing their choice of names before the crowds arrived.
This was not universal - some games did not have a wipe at all and simply phased beta into release without a wipe.
Never having played on any "early access" basis I am assuming that early access is just a newfangled way of saying open beta with no wipe. Not a new concept by any means. Similar to how some games handled things years ago. You generally need to buy the game, you get to play before official release, and you keep your characters "as is" at release.
Is this more or less correct?
You have it.
Why is it that people who don't actually have an answer for a question still feels the need to pop up and give a guess? Then the thread gets full of people all guessing back and forth giving their ideas and even if a real VR poster came in and gave the True answer, it would be hard to find amongst all the spam of peoples guesses.
It's like if somebody posted: How tall are you Steve?
My advice is... if you don't know the exact timeline for Alpha/Beta and/or are not authorized to give out that info at this time, it's best just to wait and see if somebody who does know and is authorized will give us a real answer.
No VR poster is going to come in here and give a specific estimate so we all feel free to take what we know and give reasonable opinions based on what VR has said and done.
Trust me - if VR shocks us all and comes in with a statement "We expect beta testing to start on or about (insert date) " you won't need to worry about missing it.
oneADseven said:@Zew -- Are you a part of that generation? You are using the terms synomynously. I think most people following this game understand the difference because VR has been completely transparent in how they view the testing phases for this game. It seems like you understand the difference between early access and legitimate alpha/beta phases but continue to perpetuate the idea that they are one in the same anyway. I think this is an opportunity to ask yourself whether or not you want to be a part of the solution, or the problem. Again, VR has been quite clear in saying that they will not be offering an early access period. Help us educate the legions of indoctrinated players.
I guess I am unlcear what generation then.
I was an adult (over 30), when I first started the EQ1 beta in Sept 98, a professional in the IT industry. I went onto work many years in the gaming industry. Worked on many games, some vastly successful (at least monetarily). Met and worked with a number of people that worked on original UO, original EQ1 and original Vanguard.
That being said, do "most" people following this game understand the difference? Hard to say. Of course anything we say would be speculative and impossible to verify.
I do not think most people, even old time EQ players know what it means to be in a true alpha, or even pre-alpha. And frankly back in those late 90's most game companies were kind of making it up as they went. MMOs were brand new then.
I remember being in the UO alpha/beta back in 96' I think it was. I was one of maybe a dozen people. I walked a completely empty game world, just amazed at what I was seeing. No game had ever brought anything like it to the pc before. And i was lucky to have a 2-band IDSN connection. Most had to rely on 14.4K modems, if that. And only one phone line.
I got to work with one of the original UO guys a couple years ago. We had some fun conversations. He said it was a chaotic environment, they were on the bleeding edge making it up as they went. Their entire DB was a flat file (which explained a lot). Compared to the tech we have today, it is wild how far things have progressed.
I would say that the concept of alpha testing has changed a lot since the 90's given the advancement in coding tools, pre-built graphics libraries, virtualization, nosql, ramcache, etc. And a game that is actually vastly more playable than it might have been back then, can still be in alpha, even pre-alpha.
I guess the game-state is what VR wants to define it as, and if they are trying to differentiate from anything sounding like early access that is their perogitive. But this pre-alpha is beyond what EQ1 beta was, just saying. :)
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Why is it that people who don't actually have an answer for a question still feels the need to pop up and give a guess? Then the thread gets full of people all guessing back and forth giving their ideas and even if a real VR poster came in and gave the True answer, it would be hard to find amongst all the spam of peoples guesses.
Because the chances that someone comes in with an answer to a random forum post is slim.
If you're a new poster and you ask a question... then wait for a month for nothing to happen.. what message does that send? At least the community coming to the aid of someone shows that we are active and potentially wondering the same thing.
zewtastic said:All guessing aside, which I am sure is fun, when things reach a state of alpha or otherwise is probably going to purely be a function of resources and money.
Frankly they have to have enough content to realistically release an alpha.
Content = bodies * time. Since time (as Einstein proved) is a constant, the only thing that can change is bodies. More bodies require more money. Probably not happening.
I suspect they would also want harvesting and crafting in before alpha, at least in it's early stages anyway.
We have only seen some of the classes fleshed out. Lots of work still to do there. Lots of balancing.
We have seen good parts of 3 dungeons, some of 3 others, maybe 4 (non-dungeon) zones, 1 continent, 21 factions, 150+ NPCs.
They have a lot to do, 6 months seems overly optimistic.
I do not have any idea how many are paid to enter alpha, but last thing they want is thousands flooding in to a (EA) game with very little content. it could be detrimental to perceptions of the game, and thus it's success.
It's better if they control output with their managed streams.
with the newsletter just released today, Pre-Alpha 3 starts "soon". A new fully integrated starting zone will be introduced, including crafting and harvesting. Leveling up to level 40. 1-2 more Pre-Alpha's until Alpha at the "holidays" end of this year.
all of the classes will be fleshed out within the next 2-3 months (except Necro and Bard)
Alpha usually lasts about 6 months or so at minimum, and then Beta usually starts a couple months after that.
Itchies500 said:zewtastic said:SNIP
with the newsletter just released today, Pre-Alpha 3 starts "soon". A new fully integrated starting zone will be introduced, including crafting and harvesting. Leveling up to level 40. 1-2 more Pre-Alpha's until Alpha at the "holidays" end of this year.
all of the classes will be fleshed out within the next 2-3 months (except Necro and Bard)
Alpha usually lasts about 6 months or so at minimum, and then Beta usually starts a couple months after that.
It's important to note that while PA3 is scheduled to be coming sometime soon, it will not include the fully integrated zone with crafting/harvesting, etc. That was Faerthale which is something that won't come until further down the line. Faerthale was referred to as the "Reference Zone" and is not a part of the 2 new zones being added to PA3 which are Black Rose Keep and Avendyr's Pass.
This post was edited by oneADseven at June 13, 2018 4:48 PM PDT
oneADseven said:Itchies500 said:zewtastic said:SNIP
with the newsletter just released today, Pre-Alpha 3 starts "soon". A new fully integrated starting zone will be introduced, including crafting and harvesting. Leveling up to level 40. 1-2 more Pre-Alpha's until Alpha at the "holidays" end of this year.
all of the classes will be fleshed out within the next 2-3 months (except Necro and Bard)
Alpha usually lasts about 6 months or so at minimum, and then Beta usually starts a couple months after that.
It's important to note that while PA3 is scheduled to be coming sometime soon, it will not include the fully integrated zone with crafting/harvesting, etc. That was Faerthale which is something that won't come until further down the line. Faerthale was referred to as the "Reference Zone" and is not a part of the 2 new zones being added to PA3 which are Black Rose Keep and Avendyr's Pass.
That will be Alpha.
Not so sure VR's Pre-Alpha is EQ's Beta. As a matter of fact, I am 100% sure it's not. (@zew) With that respect, I doubt even that VR's alpha is going to be close to EQ's beta. EQ's closed beta had way more classes, races, zones etc. than what I've seen in the streams. With EQ open beta most if not all zones were pretty much done and it didn't last long at all.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Why is it that people who don't actually have an answer for a question still feels the need to pop up and give a guess? Then the thread gets full of people all guessing back and forth giving their ideas and even if a real VR poster came in and gave the True answer, it would be hard to find amongst all the spam of peoples guesses.
My advice is... if you don't know the exact timeline for Alpha/Beta and/or are not authorized to give out that info at this time, it's best just to wait and see if somebody who does know and is authorized will give us a real answer.
because the community likes to speculate and have fun. if that makes you unhappy, don't read the post and don't comment on the post. take a grouchy pill and go to bed.
now, to add MY .02$
I think PRE Alpha thru 2018
Alpha ALL of 2019 and half of 2020. Beta summer 2020 with a LATE 2020 release.
I am just guessing that if Blizzard or Bethesda's would take a year to finish the game, it should take VR 2X as long since they don't have the massive team numbers of blizzard or bethesda.
Honestly, I wish one of those two would back $$$ Pantheon and give them the Money and team they need to pump this game out in 12 months. but not like Vanguard, an actual finished product.
Lev 1 to 40 to start, with a 10 level expansion 10 months after release.