Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Classic Trade vs AH: Compromise

    • 162 posts
    April 21, 2018 4:10 PM PDT

    Con: Hard to find the gear you want and trade the gear you have

    Con: Hard to understand item worth and currency value.

     

    These 2 points i can easily say are not true. I spent a ton of time on EQ in the commonlands a very long time ago, I can say that gear usually moved pretty fast if priced right. Now to the pricing point, everyone called the people out who were selling items for way above their actual value. In fact all you really had to do was "/ooc PC on X item please" and you got a response for a fair market price. Granted I always sold lower so I wasn't sitting out there for too long. 

     

    That being said, I think both of these points are not really cons, it depends on what you are willing to deal with. It's an amazing market system because players can barter right there, instead of waiting for hours for someone to come back on and deal with them. I in fact, hated when luclin came out and the AH was there, the prices were messed up and it was near impossible to find people that would bargain down items for a few plat that I was either missing or just needed something for supplies before heading to a party, so I didn't want to spend all my coin on 1 item. 

     

    There, in my eyes, and this is just my opinion, are so many more benefits to having an active market place, rather than an auction house/afk selling.

    • 99 posts
    April 21, 2018 6:50 PM PDT
    I like the localized AH idea but lets not kid our selves. Whats going to happen is one market will be the main market, and everyone will go to the same AH. I do remember having fun in EC tunnels dueling while selling. It was a huge time sink unfortunately but people would discuss gear and where they got it from it was useful information when i was playing. I see it both ways but losing the time sink will make it easier for me to focus on playing when i get a chance away from the kidos lol.
    • 9115 posts
    April 21, 2018 10:36 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Actually this topic has been discussed to exhaustion (and fervently might I add). If I remember correctly this topic holds the title for the largest thread on these forums and is now closed: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2594/death-to-the-auction-house

     

    The main summary of the thread by Beefcake:

    Beefcake said:

    Sintec said:
    Has everyone here posting read and watched what VR has in mind for pantheon? The general path they want to take? I don't want to step on anyone's ideas I mean by all means post them, but VR has said time and time again they do not want to be like all other mmos.  They want to bring back old school style. So yes games may have evolved and adapted to what people have complained and cried about to make things easier but that does not mean that's how it should be.

    You are completely right. Lets take a look at what VR has in mind for Pantheon in their own words.

    WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATUS?

    Kilsin said:
    That is pretty much it, we have settled on lots of these decisions over the last 3 years, we started these forums back in FEB 2014 and have been collecting info and taking feedback and suggestions ever since, to the point that we have already pretty much decided on most things and need to work on them some more and see them through to completion so we can test them. Which makes it hard but more reason why it was important to get in early on a game like this in development.

    We will still take feedback and suggestions and ask for specific feedback on certain things but for big mechanics like this, it has already been decided and we need to test it before we even consider changing anything.

    Kilsin is pretty clear here that they already have a plan, it has been decided, and will be tested before considering any changes. Now, we have to determine what that plan is.

    Kilsin said:
    We will release more information on this system when we have done more work on it, for now, it is best to re-read these 24 pages and the streams/podcasts we have done where we have spoken about it.

    So, lets read through official posts so far.

    Aradune said:
    I think the having your own merchant NPC that would sell your wares is a good compromise fitting in-between one extreme (everything is face to face, player to player) and the other extreme, a full on auction house.  I will say that I'm leaning towards this being what we'll do.  Of course, this doesn't stop player to player trades/sales.

    And then some kind of list board, as you mentioned.

    As for the EC Tunnel part of things, while I do think people will find areas once they learn the world, the routes, efficient ways to get from point a to point b, etc. and that there will be places that make sense to place your merchant minion NPC there, I don't necessarily agree that we'll get a repeat of EQ, e.g there will be only one of these.  The way the world is being crafted, where the races are, the different continents, etc. I'm hoping we would see multiple spots.

    If people are concerned that because of the merchants minions that no one will do player to player trades, 1. I don't necessarily agree but 2. if that turned out to be the case in alpha and beta, we could implement a tax or similar system to encourage face to face trades. 

    Anyway, that's where I pretty much sit at the moment.

    AND, before that quote, there was another:

    Aradune said:
    The most important goals related to this entire discussion are:  1. we want a thriving player driven economy 2. we want people not only compelled but rewarded for traveling and exploring the world 3. we want to put desirable items in hard to reach places and reward those merchant types for taking the risk of not just obtaining that remote item, but bringing it to more civilized and populous areas and, assuming the demand is there, selling it for a profit.  I've always been intrigued by that period where the Silk Road was used and something perhaps of little worth in China when brought all the way back to Europe was quite pricey.

    1. Is certainly doable

    2. Definitely going to reward travel and exploration in several ways

    3. This is easier said than done, and no I'm not trying to make a middle-ages silk road economic simulator.  But I do think distance and risk should matter.  And, therefore, people taking the time to travel and to risk more should be rewarded accordingly.

    So those are the basic goals.

    Now comes the stuff that like I said earlier, we're not going to set in stone until alpha or even early beta:

    1. I don't think we'll require the player to sit around a popular trading spot spamming WTS: blahblah for hours.  I don't think anyone really wants that, right?

    2. So, if we aren't going to force people to do that then *some* mechanism/feature must be present... is it a full auction house?  Is it just being able to set up an NPC and put your items on it, set your prices, and then leave him there while you continue to play the game?  Is it somewhere in-between or something else?  I honestly don't know yet.  I just have a pretty strong feeling that some sort of 'helper' is going to be necessary.

    3. The next big issue seems to be 'how do I find that special item I am looking for?'  Again, we can go to one extreme and I think most people agree you shouldn't have to spend hours talking to every player or their merchant NPC, one by one, trying to find that item... especially if after all that effort that item isn't even currently for sale in the zone or region you're in.

    4. So then comes the 'how easy to we make it to find that item'? and 'If I can search for an item, will it be local or global or something in-between?'  Great questions.  Again, not setting anything in stone, but my guess is that we will end up having a way to check if a region or zone has a merchant NPC, or a player, or an AH (if we even have them) has an item you are looking for currently for sale.  Global searches but regional buying? Hrm... that's not sitting with me right, but will continue to think on it. 

    Then there's mailing people items.... perhaps... could be a good money sink.   

    Anyway those are my thoughts right now -- if I missed addressing something critical please let me know.

    I do think many in our audience enjoy face-to-face trading and that many don't.  We therefore need to accommodate both.  My gut says right now that you can set up your own NPC merchant, give it the items you want to sell, set prices, and then leave him.   Then it's not face-to-face, its player interacting with NPC, and I don't think anyone has issues there, yes? No?

    Bottom line: we are listening, we understand there are people with conflicting desires but we are also confident that together (you guys and us devs) we can make a regional economy not only work and make for a fun part of the game, but also accommodate both sides of this current debate (or perhaps there's more than just two sides here -- it's been quite the thread).

    Aradune said:
    Well, first of all what I can say for certain is there will be no global auction house or bazarre.  We want travel and remote regions to matter and for trade to take place in different areas and to see items fluctuate in value depending on how hard it was or wasn't to obtain and then bring to the area where you want to sell it.  A player driven economy, as I've said many times, is paramount to Pantheon.
    Aradune said:
    I generally like it when the players are driving things and places of commerce arise organically. That said, there is something to be said about a basic system that allows you to sell your items while offline, or that allows you to search for an item for sale in the local area you are in...

    This clearly indicates that there will be NO GLOBAL auction house or bazarre. However, the option to have local automated systems clearly remains open.

    Also, they are clearly intending players to have options:
     Face-to-face trading (for those that prefer that)
     Some kind of automated systems (for those that prefer that)

    HOW DID WE GET HERE?

    Lets take a look at a few more quotes.

    Kilsin said:
    We are most definitely creating a new game, this is nothing like an EQ or VG clone/sequel etc. and as much as that may disappoint some people, Pantheon is a new game, new IP, new ideas, based on its own lore, that involves some new and some familiar systems, mechanics and features that we thnk you will all enjoy a lot. :)
    Aradune said:
    That said, I still feel (for clarification: I'm sharing my thoughts with you, not annoucing exactly what Pantheon will be like, because a lot of this is not going to be finally decided until beta) that some extra tools that did not exist in EQ to help people make friends, find groupmates, trade, etc. will be necessary to help proactively build community.  This being 2016 and not 1999, and with the number of people who have experienced MMOs being easily 12+ million now, combined with many of them never having played a community-driven game, I think we will see a lot of players come into Pantheon and struggle a lot at first if we don't proactively help.

    Now I totally understand your concerns, and if we overdo this, we'll actually hurt the community and the game itself.

    But remember, we are not only targeting old school MMO players with Pantheon -- we truly believe there are a LOT of players who never experienced the first generation of MMOs who will try out Pantheon and love it.  My concern, though, is that when they try the game and aren't themselves used to a community-centric, social, cooperative game, that some/many might become frustrated early on and quit.  I think we may need to ease them into this 'new' (I know, really it's old) style of MMO.  So that's what we've been thinking about for sometime -- how can we do that, but not go too far and make Pantheon into something it was never meant to be.  We have lots of ideas, but we need to try them out in beta.  But it's a big enough issue for me that I've made these posts and am looking for our existing communities feedback as well (and you guys are providing that -- thank you).

    To make sure I'm being clear:  I don't expect everyone who tries the game who never experienced the first generation of MMOs to like Pantheon -- Pantheon has a specific target audience and we are NOT making a game that is all things for all people.  A lot of people won't like Pantheon whether we leave all of this totally up to the community or if we put in some functionality to help build community.  And, as I've stated before, I'm ok with that.  But I also think that a lot of people who never experienced the first generation of MMOs will LOVE Pantheon once they've experienced the magic of a community-focused, social, cooperative MMO.  We need those people, and so you do you guys.  And so, unlike EQ where we just let everything happen organically, we are considering 'helper' mechanics that proactively help and even push people into the community.  Trade is important, and I'm glad we're talking about it, but the big one for me is making friends in-game.  People just don't do that anymore because 1. they don't need to and 2. many people who play MMOs now don't want to.  Again, I'm fine with #2 -- they're not going to like Pantheon.  But #1 has created a situation where people who DO enjoy socialzing and cooperative play don't know to look for it, don't know how or might be hestiant to reach out to other players, etc. 

    It's sad in a sense -- I feel compelled to put some systems in the game that probably wouldn't be necessary if MMOs hadn't altered course in the last 5-10 years and become a different animal.  But, while we can all criticize and lament this reality, it's still a reality.

    Aradune said:
    This really touches on a bigger issue that we're still thinking very hard about:  Vanilla EQ pretty much left everything up to the players.... want to find a group?  Well, we had the /lfg flag, but not much more.  Players were on their own to make friends, put groups together, to sell and buy items, etc.  I guess the question that often comes up is:  will players newer to MMOs or who didn't play the early more open and organic MMOs struggle too much without a little help?  Also:  do we create some sort of local UI that helps people buy and sell?  Do we let people perhaps put an item on a merchant and sell it by consignment (e.g. someone can buy it while the owner is offline)?  How about grouping?  How about the community in general?  Should we try to be a bit proactive and help people find groups and make friends, etc.? 

    I know one could say, well, EQ didn't need any help -- the players came together and did most of this kind of stuff themselves.  But, at the same time, this isn't 1999.  Many people who will try Pantheon will not have that perspective and will be coming from games that do make a proactive approach in many areas... that provide an interface, or tools, to help players with transactions, grouping, etc.

    I'm personally of the opinion that there has been so much hand-holding in recent games that we should try to be proactive, within reason of course.  And I say that because I know some of you are probably worried about what I am saying and that we would take this too far and start implementing dungeon-finders and such.  Yes, I agree, it could be taken too far, but we won't let that happen.

    Clearly, he is stating that we can do an automated selling system without destroying the spirit of the game AND without implementing other "easycore" or "convenience" features that so many people here claim will immediately follow any kind of automated selling.

    So, as Sintec said:

    Sintec said:
    Has everyone here posting read and watched what VR has in mind for pantheon? The general path they want to take? I don't want to step on anyone's ideas I mean by all means post them, but VR has said time and time again they do not want to be like all other mmos.  They want to bring back old school style. So yes games may have evolved and adapted to what people have complained and cried about to make things easier but that does not mean that's how it should be.

    Thank you, Iksar :)

    This has been discussed to death and our position has not changed from the last discussion, please read through that thread for official replies and keep this one civil or it will be closed without warning.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at April 22, 2018 10:07 PM PDT
    • 313 posts
    April 22, 2018 4:37 AM PDT

    Munk said:

    I've been thinking a lot about this and then I realized a modern ARPG has solved this problem using item listings (think classifieds). Players can list their items in a database (with or without a price) that is searchable by all other players. However, to actually trade you have to whisper that person and arrange a meeting to trade the items. IMO this combines the best of both worlds. If you want an item you can search for it and find players who have it. However you still have to interact with that player and negotiate a trade. If you're a jerk in the community, people can refuse to trade with you. When I've used this system in the other game sometimes we talk a bit and trade quickly. Other times we talk a lot and group up, or I ask the player what else they have for sale and we negotiate further. I still get to interact with people but I dont have to stand around for hours filtering through chat to find the item I want. It's fast, convenient, and builds community.

    Would you be open to a system like this? Why or why not?

     

    This is Path of Exile, I believe.  It's a really good system that I wouldn't mind seeing in P:ROTF.  The main problem is people price fixing by posting a bunch of items well below actual value in the hopes of tricking other players to underuct them.  

    • 793 posts
    April 22, 2018 5:58 AM PDT

    Other than basic materials, most items will be uncommon.  You are not going to see 100 Breastplate of the Gods for sale by 1 person.

    • 1399 posts
    April 22, 2018 10:08 AM PDT

    zoltar said:

    Munk said:

    I've been thinking a lot about this and then I realized a modern ARPG has solved this problem using item listings (think classifieds). Players can list their items in a database (with or without a price) that is searchable by all other players. However, to actually trade you have to whisper that person and arrange a meeting to trade the items. IMO this combines the best of both worlds. If you want an item you can search for it and find players who have it. However you still have to interact with that player and negotiate a trade. If you're a jerk in the community, people can refuse to trade with you. When I've used this system in the other game sometimes we talk a bit and trade quickly. Other times we talk a lot and group up, or I ask the player what else they have for sale and we negotiate further. I still get to interact with people but I dont have to stand around for hours filtering through chat to find the item I want. It's fast, convenient, and builds community.

    Would you be open to a system like this? Why or why not?

     

    This is Path of Exile, I believe.  It's a really good system that I wouldn't mind seeing in P:ROTF.  The main problem is people price fixing by posting a bunch of items well below actual value in the hopes of tricking other players to underuct them.  

    Good point

    I wonder if the devs could combat that one problem by say, in order to even post an ITEM for sale you had to link off the item?

    Would it be too cumbersome for the servers to remove an item from a "for sale" ad if the user didn't have it.. like once it's sold.

    Edit: Kilsin, I know you intended to lock this down as a "same as" thread. But it's really not IF kept on topic. The OP was about a compromise between the two that people keep arguing about.. a newspaper type system. This idea has not been has ed out, it's always lost in the AH threads. And yet this Idea also fits in with what the Devs are looking for imho.

    I for one would like to see it run... but watched and moderated for off topic AH and EC post. If you please


    This post was edited by Zorkon at April 22, 2018 10:19 AM PDT
    • 162 posts
    April 22, 2018 11:48 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

     

    Good point

    I wonder if the devs could combat that one problem by say, in order to even post an ITEM for sale you had to link off the item?

    Would it be too cumbersome for the servers to remove an item from a "for sale" ad if the user didn't have it.. like once it's sold.

    Edit: Kilsin, I know you intended to lock this down as a "same as" thread. But it's really not IF kept on topic. The OP was about a compromise between the two that people keep arguing about.. a newspaper type system. This idea has not been has ed out, it's always lost in the AH threads. And yet this Idea also fits in with what the Devs are looking for imho.

    I for one would like to see it run... but watched and moderated for off topic AH and EC post. If you please

     

    Pretty easy fix, make it just like the auction house, players post the item into the system, and only visible when online, player A wants buy the item, so contacts player B, they discuss price, tell the system the said price, once player A pays, then he gets the item, and player B can pick up the cash through mail or whatever system they choose to use.

    This system sounds pretty solid to me. You can list that you have 100 of X item, player A only needs 10, player B tells the auction house that player A wants to buy 10 for X amount, and you can still sit the other 90 on the listing.

    • 1399 posts
    April 22, 2018 12:33 PM PDT

    Dubah said:

    Zorkon said:

     

    Good point

    I wonder if the devs could combat that one problem by say, in order to even post an ITEM for sale you had to link off the item?

    Would it be too cumbersome for the servers to remove an item from a "for sale" ad if the user didn't have it.. like once it's sold.

    Edit: Kilsin, I know you intended to lock this down as a "same as" thread. But it's really not IF kept on topic. The OP was about a compromise between the two that people keep arguing about.. a newspaper type system. This idea has not been has ed out, it's always lost in the AH threads. And yet this Idea also fits in with what the Devs are looking for imho.

    I for one would like to see it run... but watched and moderated for off topic AH and EC post. If you please

     Pretty easy fix, make it just like the auction house, players post the item into the system, and only visible when online, player A wants buy the item, so contacts player B, they discuss price, tell the system the said price, once player A pays, then he gets the item, and player B can pick up the cash through mail or whatever system they choose to use.

    This system sounds pretty solid to me. You can list that you have 100 of X item, player A only needs 10, player B tells the auction house that player A wants to buy 10 for X amount, and you can still sit the other 90 on the listing.

    What I have always seen for this was it to be more of just placing an Ad in a newspaper. But where the players could advertize services as well. So players would not be actually posting an ITEM into the system. They could be posting an ad for Rezing Porting or crafting services, A call for mercenaries to go after an item they may need.  The actual Selling would not be done through the system at all. The selling player would need to still have the Item themselves (unlike using an AH or Broker) to either meet up or mail it to the buyer. "The system" would only facilitate the connection between Seller and Buyer with a link to /Tell and or /Email the seller.

    • 690 posts
    April 23, 2018 6:00 AM PDT

    As a "no auction house!" guy, lovin the compromise OP. It keeps people talking to each other and also stays much more immersive than throwing regional E-Bays into a world with swords and shields. Lastly, the compromise keeps items feeling valuable because you at least need to put in SOME work to get them. 

    I'd like to see the list as an actual element of UI that you can open up and update anywhere. If you make people go to a market place then you are basically just appeasing guys like me who want trade as player-based as possible (and almost completely ignoring the AH guys). 

    The any time, any where UI would work best if we did NOT have an item mail system in PROTF. Or at least, the mail system worked realistically slow, or somehow relied on player caravans. This way, players would still need to give some effort to trade and communicate as much as possible.

    Considering how the 'Death to the Auction House' thread grew to the largest in the forum so fast, (and this one is growing pretty fast too) I'd say the topic is important enough to merit consideration for putting this compromise, or any trade system besides regional auction houses, into action at least on a special ruleset server. 

     

    P.S. That said, I'm still a huge fan of completely non-automated trade between players, and wanted to add a couple pros beyond communication to the list:

    1. It helps to keep items feeling unique because players need to work to buy what they want, just like items being difficult to farm makes them feel more unique. Also, players have much more reason to discuss the items, often in detail.

    2. It is much more immersive than automated soda machines being run by uninteresting, lifeless characters.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at April 23, 2018 6:24 AM PDT
    • 1399 posts
    April 23, 2018 11:00 AM PDT

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    *snip*

    I'd like to see the list as an actual element of UI that you can open up and update anywhere. If you make people go to a market place then you are basically just appeasing guys like me who want trade as player-based as possible (and almost completely ignoring the AH guys). 

    The any time, any where UI would work best if we did NOT have an item mail system in PROTF. Or at least, the mail system worked realistically slow, or somehow relied on player caravans. This way, players would still need to give some effort to trade and communicate as much as possible.

    *snip*

    1. It helps to keep items feeling unique because players need to work to buy what they want, just like items being difficult to farm makes them feel more unique. Also, players have much more reason to discuss the items, often in detail.

    2. It is much more immersive than automated soda machines being run by uninteresting, lifeless characters.

    Everquest now has an open it anywhere UI "/bazaar" but I feel that goes against Brads vision of regional houses to promote a silk road effect. That's why I thing a newspaper "snapshot" of the regional house could find some common ground. 

    Players buy ad's by the day. For illustration lets say 1 gold per day, you can buy days, weeks, or even months. 

    Now players can view, search, the complete active live paper in a town... but that is only for that one town.

    OR they have the option for 1 Plat to buy a paper. A portable searchable "snapshot" of that regional AH that they can take with them and search during down time while adventuring. This newspaper snapshot could be combined with another from a different Region'so snapshot and both would be searchable together.

    This snapshot method I think would promote the silk road as now people on one side of the world could see what people on the other side were looking for.

    Yet as its only a snapshot as ad's expire they are removed fromy the newspaper. 

    Once fully expired it would disappear. Or it could be updated with new versions.

    1. Agree. It would promote interaction over avoiding it.

    2. Yeah turning your character into a vending machine is not a good idea imho (if I can't say anything nice...)

    • 145 posts
    April 23, 2018 8:08 PM PDT

    philo said:

    We had a statement from Brad a few months back (I believe that was the most recent comment on the subject) that said there would be auction houses but they would be localized instead of world wide. 

     

    They did this at the start of Vanguard. It worked well for the first couple months of the game. It didn't take long for people to realize which continents were most populated and put their wares on that continent so they sell faster. Eventually they went to a world market. I think it was the Thestra market that thrived and the Qalia/Kojan market was a ghost town. People had to shard over to the other continent just to see a good supply of items. I liked the face to face interaction that EQ had in the beginning but I was also a big fan of the bazaar where they parked a player there with wares to sell and people stopped by and bought them. I even got to know some of the sellers by sending them tells and they would eventually reply and I would ask them if they had more or where they got it and things like that.

    Only downfall was you had to leave your character logged in. Maybe they could work something where you can set up a projection of yourself in the bazaar at all times that way while you're out leveling and grinding or even logged off you can sell wares. Then if people want to send you tells in game asking to buy more items for a lesser price they can contact you. I have played games with auction houses and while I don't mind using them I did miss the haggling and price wars and things open auctions in EC tunnels brought about.

    • 409 posts
    April 24, 2018 11:29 AM PDT

    Proposal:

    /bazaar channel in chat, works only in your current zone/shard/whatever. 

    Compromise:

    /bazaar chat channel extends to every zone on current continent/region, but not globally.

    Compromise complete.

    • 752 posts
    April 25, 2018 5:44 PM PDT
    No global channel, please no. Place Auction Houses all over the place and once one becomes a ghost town convert it into something else. Each server will pick different ones. If the trend is that every server picks a certain one than shut them all down except the one few that people pick. Dynamic content driven by the players. They will probably have a good idea of where to place them during beta
    • 1479 posts
    April 26, 2018 1:42 AM PDT

    kreed99 said: No global channel, please no. Place Auction Houses all over the place and once one becomes a ghost town convert it into something else. Each server will pick different ones. If the trend is that every server picks a certain one than shut them all down except the one few that people pick. Dynamic content driven by the players. They will probably have a good idea of where to place them during beta

     

    That can be countered with an adjusting ratio of tax depending of the load of the AH compared to the other ones. But maybe it can cheesed too, and counter cheesing can be prepared, etc...

    • 1399 posts
    April 26, 2018 5:24 AM PDT

    Munk said:

    There seems to be passionate people on both sides of the Auciton House argument. I would like to see a good mix of both that but first lets look at the pros and cons of each imo.

    Classic "Commons" Trade:
    Pro: Builds community... thats about it but this is extremely important

    Con: Hard to find the gear you want and trade the gear you have

    Con: Hard to understand item worth and currency value.

    Con: Takes a lot of time sitting around not playing. Hurts those with less time.

    Con: Can be tedious and boring.

    Modern Auction House:

    Pro: Easy to get the gear you want and trade the gear you have.

    Pro: Convenient and fast

    Pro: Easy to understand currency and item values. Helps people not get cheated out of their items worth.

    Con: Absolutley no community interaction.

     

    I've been thinking a lot about this and then I realized a modern ARPG has solved this problem using item listings (think classifieds). Players can list their items in a database (with or without a price) that is searchable by all other players. However, to actually trade you have to whisper that person and arrange a meeting to trade the items. IMO this combines the best of both worlds. If you want an item you can search for it and find players who have it. However you still have to interact with that player and negotiate a trade. If you're a jerk in the community, people can refuse to trade with you. When I've used this system in the other game sometimes we talk a bit and trade quickly. Other times we talk a lot and group up, or I ask the player what else they have for sale and we negotiate further. I still get to interact with people but I dont have to stand around for hours filtering through chat to find the item I want. It's fast, convenient, and builds community.

    Would you be open to a system like this? Why or why not?

    • 752 posts
    April 26, 2018 7:10 AM PDT

    As long as we can show the link of the equipment a lot of the con's of the past are dissipated. I loved the energy of the commons tunnel, and even the original bazaar with the arena nearby. I hated when EQ brought in global channels and revamped the bazaar zone/process. Just like in RL, i love going to the market and hearing the noise and feeling the energy. I do appreciate the ease of just clicking on someone and buying the item, but i feel having the social/barter aspect of it is still important to keep the community auctions vibrant. Once we sterilize the community by cutting out the social aspect and allowing afk trading, we might as well turn it into a silent bazaar or just buy/sell from NPC's and then there wont be a need for /auction.  

    A classifieds system would probably work. You can list the item and people can either reply while you are offline or look for you when you log on. It's a better idea than afk traders.

    The more i think about it the more i like the online classifieds/yardsale idea. Its already a common feature in RL and it encourages communication/community. But i say continue to make people meet up to do the exchange. Otherwise you might as well just copy/paste eq1 bazaar/parcel function. 


    This post was edited by kreed99 at April 26, 2018 9:00 AM PDT
    • 1399 posts
    April 26, 2018 4:21 PM PDT

    So if this form (Newspaper) of buying and selling, with the ability to place Ad's for other things like services, guild recruiting or other events was to be implemented. What forms of abuse would this bring with it? 

    Profanity filter would obviously need to apply, I would think a /report button would also be appropriate. I would think since any add placed could be tracked right back to the player that would cover a good majority of the problems.

    • 3852 posts
    April 26, 2018 8:18 PM PDT

    I note for those that weren't there or do not remember that Vanguard did not have three equal areas and players somehow picked one region to make more popular. 

    Vanguard was released incomplete and one of the continents started off with a lot less in it than the others. 

    Nonetheless it is quite likely that even if every AH is in a comparably active area one will eventually become *the* place to sell or buy. 

    A year later VR will "fix" the problem by consolidating AHs the way many MMOs have done when they start out with regional or factional ones.

    I don't see this as a problem - while I wouldn't have picked regional AHs as the way to go maybe the game will work better with them - VR knows more than I do. And if not its an easy fix.

    • 73 posts
    April 26, 2018 9:25 PM PDT

    The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a newspaper style system. It feels like it would create more of an immersive experience. Each city has their own paper with classifieds about local news, sales, guild recuitments, etc. I also like the idea of being able to click a button on the classified that says "buy now" at the posted price, but leaves the option for you to contact the seller directly if you want to haggle the price or trade. Maybe there is an option to say that the price is "firm" or "send me an offer".

    With all that said, I do think eventually the players will pick a city for business, making regional/city wide papers somewhat useless. Which hurts the idea of a newspaper with classifieds.  I'm really looking forward to see how VR is handling the regional stuff, but that is a conversation for a different thread.

     

    • 1399 posts
    April 26, 2018 9:26 PM PDT

    dorotea said:

    I note for those that weren't there or do not remember that Vanguard did not have three equal areas and players somehow picked one region to make more popular. 

    Vanguard was released incomplete and one of the continents started off with a lot less in it than the others. 

    Nonetheless it is quite likely that even if every AH is in a comparably active area one will eventually become *the* place to sell or buy. 

    A year later VR will "fix" the problem by consolidating AHs the way many MMOs have done when they start out with regional or factional ones.

    I don't see this as a problem - while I wouldn't have picked regional AHs as the way to go maybe the game will work better with them - VR knows more than I do. And if not its an easy fix.

    Do you think structuring the AH as a newspaper with no delivery, where the buyer and seller have to get together to make the exchange will have any effect on that? 

    If I'm adventuring on Kingsreach, I'm not going to be overly excited to take a trip one day to list all my sellable items on Reignfall, only to run back the next day to sell them.

    • 643 posts
    April 27, 2018 5:20 AM PDT

    When EQ had the original bazaar I played a merchant and it was a blast.  

     

    Some players love to tradeskill outside of the adventuring and combat experience

     

    I loved being a merchant, haggling deals finding items and selling items.

     

    I don't understand the tedious and boring opinion.

     

     

    • 1860 posts
    April 27, 2018 8:05 AM PDT

    fazool said:

    When EQ had the original bazaar I played a merchant and it was a blast.  

     

    Some players love to tradeskill outside of the adventuring and combat experience

     

    I loved being a merchant, haggling deals finding items and selling items.

     

    I don't understand the tedious and boring opinion.

     

    Played a merchant?  All the original baazar did is let you stand in a stall and display what you wanted to sell on your character.  You couldn't move.  You couldn't buy from that mode.  I'm unsure what you remember?

    It wasn't a game mode that you played. 

    • 1479 posts
    April 27, 2018 9:04 AM PDT

    philo said:

    fazool said:

    When EQ had the original bazaar I played a merchant and it was a blast.  

     

    Some players love to tradeskill outside of the adventuring and combat experience

     

    I loved being a merchant, haggling deals finding items and selling items.

     

    I don't understand the tedious and boring opinion.

     

    Played a merchant?  All the original baazar did is let you stand in a stall and display what you wanted to sell on your character.  You couldn't move.  You couldn't buy from that mode.  I'm unsure what you remember?

    It wasn't a game mode that you played. 

     

    Nothing kept you away from not using the /bazaar command and doing you business manually I guess.

    • 752 posts
    April 27, 2018 1:13 PM PDT

    I wouldn't mind if the newspaper/bulliten board was more regional/continent based. I would prefer to keep the newspaper seperate from the auction houses or merchant dens whatever iteration it may be. As you could utilize it for more than just yardsales. And these public postings would be posted on the server so the dev team would be able to view/edit/delete any posting kinda like craigslist but for Pantheon. I suppose if they wanted to create the auction houses more like Ebay where you offer it up for a base price and once it hits a time limit or a max price it would be parcelled through the consignment system. This would force players to travel to the different AH and view what items are up for bid.  And they could tack on a system consignment cost to make out of the way AH more viable due to lower fee's.

     

    I am just trying to mimic what is in the real world.

    Craigslist or your yardsale apps. 3rd party consignment stores or Ebay. Farmers Markets. Ect.