Forums » The Summoner

Coercion

    • 16 posts
    April 17, 2018 4:47 AM PDT

    Pet classes all have the same weakness:

    The lack of variety in pets. One earth pet, one fire pet... you get the gist.

    Even if you have those pets change appearance as they level (a cool concept!) once you reach max level...they're all the same.

    It's boring. No one is special.

    That's why I LOVED EQ2's coercer class. What's your favorite mob model? That's your pet. Even dominate the minds of humanoids.

    You like snakes? Have a snake pet.  Like a fire elementals? No problem. Switch. If you change your mind...boom, a fairy pet.

    And then each pet had different move sets and class roles. You could pick a mob based on its limited version of a player class. You could control a cleric pet, or a necromancer pet, or a fighter pet...

    The variety in playstyle and aesthetics was amazing.

    I pray for something similar for Pantheon's summoner.

    What were the BEST features from similar classes in other games you've played?

    • 3601 posts
    April 17, 2018 5:54 AM PDT

    This is actually something I wish I had remembered to ask Joppa during our interview. I do hope that the Summoner can summon more than just elemental pets. I think it's unnecessarily restrictive and only makes sense in my mind that a true "Summoner" could summon almost any being they want. The Coercer in EQ2 though is much more like the Enchanter in Pantheon. I can only assume that Enchanters will have the ability to charm existing mobs to be their pets temporarily, as opposed to the Summoner, which will be able to create new pets out of nothing. I trust that Joppa already has some creative ideas for unique types of pets that Summoners will be able to have for various situations.

    • 2392 posts
    April 17, 2018 10:43 AM PDT

    It depends on how the class is envisioned.  I recently worked on a dual specialization theory crafting exercise and finished up summoner.  I think it's important that summoners form some sort of bond with their pets and in order for that to happen, they should feel more like a companion rather than a temporary summon, but the temporary option should exist as well.  I think it's perfectly reasonable that they can summon a variety of other NPC types and tried to demonstrate how that could work with the Brood Keeper.  As far as the elementals discussed in the dual spec thread, my original thought was to create 1 of each archetype for each element, for a total of 16 different elementals.  I figured this might be a little too taxing on development resources so I left it out.

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6253/dual-specialization/view/page/14

    • 1828 posts
    April 17, 2018 11:56 AM PDT

    I too hope they can summon more than just elemental creatures as pets. I also hope that instead of having mostly wizard-esqe spells for personal direct damage that they still use summons for the most part. Summon tentacles, swarms of insects/vermin, a hail of summoned blades, a crushing boulder or rain of stone, and so on. 

    • 16 posts
    April 17, 2018 12:16 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    ...I also hope that instead of having mostly wizard-esqe spells for personal direct damage that they still use summons for the most part. Summon tentacles, swarms of insects/vermin, a hail of summoned blades, a crushing boulder or rain of stone, and so on. 

     

    That is also super cool. Summoning as a form of weaponry. Sort of like the power of portals, which we know from Aperture Science, are extremely versitile. For example, you can summon one mob to fall and land on top of another, doing damage to both and repositioning the one that fell.

    Summoner could almost be a master of those portals, like Androl from Wheel of Time.

    • 462 posts
    April 19, 2018 11:47 PM PDT
    • 3 posts
    April 24, 2018 5:21 AM PDT

    LaissezFaire said:

    Pet classes all have the same weakness:

    The lack of variety in pets. One earth pet, one fire pet... you get the gist.

    Even if you have those pets change appearance as they level (a cool concept!) once you reach max level...they're all the same.

    It's boring. No one is special.

    That's why I LOVED EQ2's coercer class. What's your favorite mob model? That's your pet. Even dominate the minds of humanoids.

    You like snakes? Have a snake pet.  Like a fire elementals? No problem. Switch. If you change your mind...boom, a fairy pet.

    And then each pet had different move sets and class roles. You could pick a mob based on its limited version of a player class. You could control a cleric pet, or a necromancer pet, or a fighter pet...

    The variety in playstyle and aesthetics was amazing.

    I pray for something similar for Pantheon's summoner.

    What were the BEST features from similar classes in other games you've played?

    This will already be covered by the enchanter. I guaruntee you they will be able to charm like in EQ. EQ2 never really had a true enchanter because they broke the EQ1 enchanter in half and tried to make one half a pet class and the other half a CC - temporary pet class. The pantheon enchanter will be an upgraded version of EQ1's enchanter.

    • 56 posts
    May 18, 2018 11:57 AM PDT

    I find it a little strange that the focus is more on the pet's appearance and abilities than its strategic use.

    If Summoner could summon any pet model in existence it would be like the EQ2 lv. 65 Coercer spell "Possess Essence", which is a weak (and smaller) version of any targeted mob with minor differences based on its class. Summoner is not going to charm. It could end up being more like EQ1's Monster Summoning, but the mobs one summoned were all the same in combat.

    Possess Essence and Monster Summoning are fun gimmicks, but the class needs more than gimmicks as its prone to getting a lot of them. Summoner shouldn't summon plain animals or insects, since those already exist in the world...and there are three classes (Ranger, Druid, and Shaman) that already have the plentitude of organic nature covered. Summoner should be about the lesser, inferior, even infernal nature where there's only minerals, aquifers, gasses, intense pressure, and heat. EQ2's Conjurer was not a good analogy since it lacked item summoning (we need to explain how the Summoner can make swords and burned bread out of thin air), and Summoner shouldn't take things from Enchanter or any other class since it spent most of it's EQ1 Magician's role as a "part-wizard".

    Most people who play Summoner would want something different and powerful. This class is more quality over quantity since what it summons does not literally exist in the physical world unlike most of the Necromancer pets. The beings that are summoned also have their own lives and are way more intelligent and powerful than a walking corpse or a bear and have way more empathy than a specter. It would be nice to have a pet that doesn't act like an overly well-trained dog that talks a little. The pet should be more like a controllable, important NPC...if it isn't that way then what difference would all the other "pet" classes in the game have to it?

    The pet can serve as a crafting container for more exotic recipes, it can have its own equipment and inventory, it can help in quests through one's dialog with it and its ability to give players items, it can talk about the zone it's in and the mobs it has fought, it can have major resists based on its element, etc. The pet could have stances such as "defensive melee", "offensive melee", "offensive ranged", and "defensive ranged" which will change its own skillset and act based on abilities associated with its own element. A fire elemental on "melee defensive" would have a super strong fire shield, "offensive melee" would have a powerful proc, "offensive ranged" would be like a pyromancer, and "defensive ranged" would restore the party's endurance, cure curses, debuff enemy atk, give special buffs, and have limited resurrection abilities.

    If Summoner summoned whatever mob there was in the world, the pets would be simple drones in comparison to what's possible. Charmed pets should be strong and fickle, but Summoner pets should be different. Many of the most powerful items with expensive or NO DROP reagents would need a pet around to help summon them even if it's for another player. If the pet has its own small inventory it can also summon its own (abeit random) special items every 10 to 30 minutes that can serve for emergencies.

    Summoner should feel more like playing a real-time strategy game where one can summon barriers, temporary pets, inanimate pets, items that players need, and of course, command one's permanent pet. It can make a group's camp into a basic fort. Putting too much importance on the pet above all else will make one tired of the pet and wish for another. Summoner should focus more on helping their group/raid...and a pet would not be enough. Too much focus on the pet will make Summoner into another gold-farmer bot.


    This post was edited by Radeon at May 18, 2018 12:02 PM PDT
    • 110 posts
    May 19, 2018 3:50 PM PDT

    I think it would be cool if low level summoners summoned more mundane things like squirrels, wolves, bears, etc. and as they gained power learned to summon infernals, celestials, and elementals. This would make pet summoning similar to the Summon Monster line of spells from D&D 3.5 where you choose an animal and then can apply templates to make it more powerful before summoning. The number and strength of the animals and strength of the template depends on the level of the Summon Monster spell used.

    Yes, it is possible to summon an army of infernal squirrels.

    • 246 posts
    June 12, 2018 6:26 PM PDT

    Personally, I think too much diversity in summoned creatures dilutes class identity.  I advocate for a single theme; elemental forces are a good choice, but there are other themes that could be cool.  For example, what about an astrological theme?  How about summoning avatars aligned with morality - envy, valor, rage, honesty, hunger, etc?  I could go all day.

    Regardless of theme, it sure would be cool to see a system for a certain amount of personalization.  Maybe you could use the transcendent slots in the codex to build a modular pet from a library.  Different combinations would behave differently and look different.

    • 633 posts
    June 13, 2018 9:15 PM PDT

    Summoning a portal or evac to succor point in the zone would be cool, to the line of COH.

     

    Making Summoners important..

     

    (Just dont keep nerfing us)

    • 24 posts
    June 18, 2018 2:18 PM PDT

    Radeon said:

    I find it a little strange that the focus is more on the pet's appearance and abilities than its strategic use.

    If Summoner could summon any pet model in existence it would be like the EQ2 lv. 65 Coercer spell "Possess Essence", which is a weak (and smaller) version of any targeted mob with minor differences based on its class. Summoner is not going to charm. It could end up being more like EQ1's Monster Summoning, but the mobs one summoned were all the same in combat.

    Possess Essence and Monster Summoning are fun gimmicks, but the class needs more than gimmicks as its prone to getting a lot of them. Summoner shouldn't summon plain animals or insects, since those already exist in the world...and there are three classes (Ranger, Druid, and Shaman) that already have the plentitude of organic nature covered. Summoner should be about the lesser, inferior, even infernal nature where there's only minerals, aquifers, gasses, intense pressure, and heat. EQ2's Conjurer was not a good analogy since it lacked item summoning (we need to explain how the Summoner can make swords and burned bread out of thin air), and Summoner shouldn't take things from Enchanter or any other class since it spent most of it's EQ1 Magician's role as a "part-wizard".

    Most people who play Summoner would want something different and powerful. This class is more quality over quantity since what it summons does not literally exist in the physical world unlike most of the Necromancer pets. The beings that are summoned also have their own lives and are way more intelligent and powerful than a walking corpse or a bear and have way more empathy than a specter. It would be nice to have a pet that doesn't act like an overly well-trained dog that talks a little. The pet should be more like a controllable, important NPC...if it isn't that way then what difference would all the other "pet" classes in the game have to it?

    The pet can serve as a crafting container for more exotic recipes, it can have its own equipment and inventory, it can help in quests through one's dialog with it and its ability to give players items, it can talk about the zone it's in and the mobs it has fought, it can have major resists based on its element, etc. The pet could have stances such as "defensive melee", "offensive melee", "offensive ranged", and "defensive ranged" which will change its own skillset and act based on abilities associated with its own element. A fire elemental on "melee defensive" would have a super strong fire shield, "offensive melee" would have a powerful proc, "offensive ranged" would be like a pyromancer, and "defensive ranged" would restore the party's endurance, cure curses, debuff enemy atk, give special buffs, and have limited resurrection abilities.

    If Summoner summoned whatever mob there was in the world, the pets would be simple drones in comparison to what's possible. Charmed pets should be strong and fickle, but Summoner pets should be different. Many of the most powerful items with expensive or NO DROP reagents would need a pet around to help summon them even if it's for another player. If the pet has its own small inventory it can also summon its own (abeit random) special items every 10 to 30 minutes that can serve for emergencies.

    Summoner should feel more like playing a real-time strategy game where one can summon barriers, temporary pets, inanimate pets, items that players need, and of course, command one's permanent pet. It can make a group's camp into a basic fort. Putting too much importance on the pet above all else will make one tired of the pet and wish for another. Summoner should focus more on helping their group/raid...and a pet would not be enough. Too much focus on the pet will make Summoner into another gold-farmer bot.

     

    I like a lot of what you say here Radeon.... When i was reading about the gasses in the third paragrah {i think it was the third}.... I thought wouldn't it be cool if summoners could summon atmoshere/climate system around the mob you are trying to kill... now I'm not saying you would be able to blanket the whole zone but maybe a few feet around the mob you are trying to kill or trying to keep out of the fight for as long as you can..... 

     

    I think it would go along so well with there ideas of atmoshere/climate system and would give it more of a twist than any other mage I can think of... 

     

    Would love to hear others thoughts on this....

     

    I want awesome pet system.... being a sommon class.... Dare I say best pets in game... just my hopes of what is to come......


    This post was edited by Nytman at June 18, 2018 2:19 PM PDT
    • 24 posts
    June 18, 2018 2:25 PM PDT

    Shai said:

    Personally, I think too much diversity in summoned creatures dilutes class identity.  I advocate for a single theme; elemental forces are a good choice, but there are other themes that could be cool.  For example, what about an astrological theme?  How about summoning avatars aligned with morality - envy, valor, rage, honesty, hunger, etc?  I could go all day.

    Regardless of theme, it sure would be cool to see a system for a certain amount of personalization.  Maybe you could use the transcendent slots in the codex to build a modular pet from a library.  Different combinations would behave differently and look different.

     

    Lol... me likey... We could become the Dr frankenstein of Pantheon... lol the fun that could be had mixing and matching lol... hunting body parts lol and they could be of different levels like white, green, blue, purple, orange.... well im sure you get the drift.... I doubt that would ever happen tho.... but fun to  think aabout


    This post was edited by Nytman at June 18, 2018 2:25 PM PDT
    • 246 posts
    June 18, 2018 2:47 PM PDT

    Nytman said:

    I think it would go along so well with there ideas of atmoshere/climate system...

    Would love to hear others thoughts on this....

     

    It's an interesting idea.  I think a lot depends on how they approach area effect spells, and they've been a bit cagey on that so far.  For example, it'd be neat to harm enemies by summoning a cloud of super hot steam regardless of whether you use the climate system for that or an area effect spell.  Personally, I'd to see use of climates as one of the primary class differentiators for Druids but maybe there's some room for summoners as well.

    • 9 posts
    June 19, 2018 9:53 AM PDT

    While I'm a fan of diversity, the downside could result in the pets being less specialised and more homogenized. If we ended up with an eldritch style summoner I would be immeasurably satisfied. That said I would also love to see how the different races tie in. Similar to the talks of dark myr bards getting to somewhat more focus in debuffing enemies, I would like to see different races getting unique abilities or summons i.e. dark myrs maybe getting some aquatic horrors or fishmen summons, and elves maybe getting more fae summons like dryads and treants etc.


    This post was edited by Drakken77 at June 20, 2018 6:38 PM PDT
    • 246 posts
    June 20, 2018 8:49 AM PDT

    Drakken77 said:

    ...an eldrich style summoner...i.e. dark myrs maybe getting some aquatic horrors...

    I love the idea of putting a Lovecraftian spin on it.  No shortage of D&D examples from the Conjuration school.

    • 24 posts
    June 21, 2018 1:17 PM PDT

    Drakken77 said:

    While I'm a fan of diversity, the downside could result in the pets being less specialised and more homogenized. If we ended up with an eldritch style summoner I would be immeasurably satisfied. That said I would also love to see how the different races tie in. Similar to the talks of dark myr bards getting to somewhat more focus in debuffing enemies, I would like to see different races getting unique abilities or summons i.e. dark myrs maybe getting some aquatic horrors or fishmen summons, and elves maybe getting more fae summons like dryads and treants etc.

     

    What is the eldritch style summoner? wondering if you could tell me more I might have to look it up.... 

    • 9 posts
    June 21, 2018 4:49 PM PDT

    In my head it would have summons and abilities based on abominations and horrors that are otherwise rarely seen. You could summon a field of black tentacles to damage and impede enemies. Open portals to worlds not meant to be seen by human (and demi-human) eyes. Cthulhu, mindflayers, beholders, etc. are what comes to mind. I would see this as being a mixed bag of dps and cc type of class personally. I would see a mix of massive brutes(DPS/TANK) and intelligent(mindflayers(CC)) creatures. Combine this with some nice utility like player summoning and item summoning and I'd be a happy camper.


    This post was edited by Drakken77 at June 21, 2018 4:49 PM PDT
    • 24 posts
    June 21, 2018 6:10 PM PDT

    Drakken77 said:

    In my head it would have summons and abilities based on abominations and horrors that are otherwise rarely seen. You could summon a field of black tentacles to damage and impede enemies. Open portals to worlds not meant to be seen by human (and demi-human) eyes. Cthulhu, mindflayers, beholders, etc. are what comes to mind. I would see this as being a mixed bag of dps and cc type of class personally. I would see a mix of massive brutes(DPS/TANK) and intelligent(mindflayers(CC)) creatures. Combine this with some nice utility like player summoning and item summoning and I'd be a happy camper.

     

    very cool.....

    • 183 posts
    June 23, 2018 10:10 AM PDT
    I'm pritty sure we will see very cool pets in pantheon. I hope the summoners pet will scale with the summoners intellect as main stat and maybe also on Christma or wisdom as second stat. So the Pets will be relevant and progress even at max level.

    Also I hope to see a big variant of items that can be equipped and that serve different purposes against different enemies for the pet.