Forums » Joppa's Journal

Follow-up from PAX

    • 3 posts
    April 12, 2018 2:36 PM PDT

    @Joppa Not sure I ever actually finished giving you my ideas at/after the Meet-n-Greet.

    Regarding the "Gear Elevator" and corresponding trivializing of bosses, where a few expansions in I'm wearing a level 40 character in each slot, my suggestion is somewhat of a gear escalator, where it never goes beyond a certain point. My suggestion is the generate a tier system for both content and gear, and when that content is no longer new, it moves to a lower tier, with certain thresholds that it won't go below.

    Here's a hypothetical:

    Tier 0: Level appropriate "soloable" content

    Tier 1: Level appropriate "group" content

    Tier 2: Multi-group/small raid content

    Tier 3: "Easy" raid content (Scaling)

    Tier 4: Traditional raid content (Scaling)

    Tier 5: Elite raid content (Scaling)

    Now, the crux of this suggestion is that tiers 3-5 are not static. If content is Tier 5 in one expansion, the next it will drop to Tier 4 (or 3) depending on the flavor of the content and the desired audience. If it's a god, for example, it would probably drop to Tier 4 and take up permanent residence there. A dragon may drop to Tier 4 or 3 depending on how accessible you want to make it, or perhaps Tier 4 then Tier 3. Content could even drop to Tier 2 and fall out of the "scaling" range entirely.

    Now for how the gear fits in with this. Gear in the Scaling tiers would scale with those Tiers. If a boss was dropped from Tier 5 to Tier 4, *hypothetically* it's stats drop by 15% and the stats of the gear drop as well. So as to avoid the perception of "Nerfing" gear in Tier 5 could have a tag like "Innervated" which it loses when the boss who drops it is no longer in that tier. Theoretically, gear would be balanced such that no Tier 3-5 fight is ever trivial, and attempting these fights would require, at minimum, the previous Tier of gear.

    To sum it up, there is a huge conceptual flaw in RPGs where encounters (gods, dragons, etc.) and their corresponding gear become obsolete as they are left behind as level and gear caps increase. Creating scaling tiers would alleviate much of this problem. It keeps content fresh and makes the drops stay relevant for guilds that may need to gear up without the somewhat boring aspect of gear never changing (*coughGuildWars2coughcough*).


    AoE Indicators:

    During my play time at PAX, in the fight against the boss (forget her name), I found myself wishing I knew where the edge of the AoE was. These indicators have become a common staple in games these days, and I think with good reason. If you were there in the fight, you'd be able to see where it was safe to stand and where not, so why not allow the player to as well? They don't need to be as overt as Red or Blue indicators, but just a faint flashing at the edges of the particle effect would do nicely.

    A similar system would also be handy with respect to attacks or defenses with any sort of frontal or rear arc indicator (e.g. frontal arc blocking/riposting, rear arc backstabbing, etc).


    Shout Range:

    We've all been in LGuk (okay most of us), and seen someone shouting Train. It'd be nice if the brightness of the shout scaled up with proximity (Gray - no worries, bright Red - brace for impact). Another possibility is putting an exclamation mark which is visible through walls above someone's head as they yell (although I can see this being abused, but food for thought). Also, think about the fun Marco Polo games that range indicators would allow!


    Okay I'm sure I've got other stuff, but that's all I can come up with off the top of my head. Hope to hear your thoughts!


    This post was edited by Vortexx at April 18, 2018 4:41 PM PDT
    • 10 posts
    April 17, 2018 1:43 PM PDT

    I think one issue I have with this is the primary assumption.  I'm not sure I want to see -another-mmo with this type of gear scaling where, given your example, you have 5 tiers, and 3 are raid gear.


    Just seems to me that'd be getting right back on the Warcraft bicycle.  Not really sure whats the best way to go in a group based game.

    • 3 posts
    April 17, 2018 5:22 PM PDT
    I’m not entirely sure I understand your comment. Raid content naturally will drop raid gear. This game is group centric, but that does not preclude raids. My suggestion is regarding the management of that raid content and subsequent loot drops. Also try not to get bogged down in specifics. Those are just hypothetical Tiers. I’m on mobile right now but I’ll expand this post when I get to a computer in order to give some examples.
    • 10 posts
    April 17, 2018 7:13 PM PDT

    Right, my comment was more based on the assumption that there should be tiers and that they'd fall in line with what you listed, being, on scale of bad to good, solo, group, raid, raid, raid. (perhaps I misunderstood the tier system?)


    I'm really hoping that they can find a little bit better system that doesn't make the entirety of the best gear raid reliant.  My personal experience has always been that as you increase group sizes, especially in the ~100 person EQ raid era, you really lose that cohesiveness.  Similarly, when I look back at 40 man raiding in WoW for instance, I really had very little connection to MANY of my guild mates.  There were maybe 10 of 40 people in the guild I had any real social interaction with, and I was the f'n raid leader.


    Anyway, I guess my dream is more towards a more dispersed system, where yeah, raids are part of it, but so is crafting, difficult small group content, questing, or even a soloable farm.  I'd hate to see another 'oh, the best stuff is raid-only' system.

    • 3 posts
    April 18, 2018 4:23 PM PDT

    I see. What I'm speaking about is not really the Common-Uncommon-Rare-Epic-??? of WoW, and I can't speak to how they'll choose the crafting to factor in with regards to how it stacks up against raid drops, but instead about the upward spiral that is common to so many games, and the subsequent obsolescence of content and gear. I'm essentially saying that the raid encounters/gear from one expansion should fall in quality in the progression to the next expansion, but not below a certain threshold. This makes new content still the most advanced and desireable, but does not make old content completely obsolete. For example, back in EQ days, you could solo or duo dragons and non-DT gods that used to be full raid encounters, and in WoW I used to go into Molten Core and solo it when I was bored during Lich King era. The perpetual increase in stat cap ruins old content, and that is the main purpose of my suggestion. It is specific to raid content, my mention of the lower tiers are just to illustrate that not ALL content needed to scale with whatever stat increases devs decide upon with new expansions.

    • 10 posts
    April 18, 2018 6:25 PM PDT

    Ah, completely agree on that.


    You're saying more, for comparison, the Warcraft system of 'new expansion, everything you had is now useless', vs the EQ model where Kunark era raid drops still had at least some value.  I see no issue with that.  My concern was more going back to that WoW model where you grind out max level, nothing before that matters, then its back to the 5 man group grind grind until you can do raids, then only the raid stuff is worth diddly.


    I'd much rather see very difficult group content as opposed to massive amounts of raid content that becomes the norm.  Not sure how you'd do that open world, non-instance, though.

    • 367 posts
    April 26, 2018 10:12 AM PDT

    A way to make "raid" content viable in an open world/non-instanced game would be similar to original EQ where you had monstrous encounters (Dragons returning to Pantheon, Sea Monsters coming to shore, portals opening from another realm releasing hordes of demons, or undead with intentions of taking over a town or having a foothold in Pantheon.)  Raiding doesn't have to be in a "dungeon".  You could group in Kael D and then raid Vindi, or group in sebilis and then raid Trak... Sol and Nagafen, Gorefiend in Dreadlands, Venril in KC... etc ect.  All of these places still had great encounters and loot without having to "raid" the boss too.  Unlike WoW where you needed a raid just to enter an area designated for raids even to fight the trash mobs.

    • 466 posts
    May 19, 2018 2:02 PM PDT

    I can't see some of the coments/replies, is it bugged?

    And just a comments of the AoE indicator, I aggre that there should be some kind of spell effect that telll you the roughly the range of the ability, but that indicator/spell effect should never show before the abilty happens, only after or at the same time the ability happens and the damage is dealt.