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Pantheon Class Discussion with Creative Director Chris Perkins

    • 945 posts
    May 7, 2018 1:56 PM PDT

    It's been my personal experience in MMOs that DPS typically has the lowest demand due to being the highest population and support classes like Enchanters being the lowest population.  Even people that mained healers, tanks or CC also had a DPS class to play because DPS is typically more fun.  With that being said, I am seriously hoping that all classes will be equally fun in their own ways!  :)

    • 35 posts
    May 7, 2018 2:05 PM PDT

    Higherho said:

    Etahfo said:

     

    But as you pointed out they were the solo kings and great at pvp...with nerfed pets. I don't really follow the logic of their pets being on the same lvl as a class who depends on their pets to do comparable dps. They are the king's of undead summoning, even with nerfed pets, so them being weaker than a summoner's pet shouldn't really matter. If their pets will be on the same lvl as a summoner, maybe they should have weak sauce damage spells to keep them on level with summoners?

    FYI, I never played a mage and had a necro I played around with rarely so I don't want you to think this is coming from a summoner/mage POV. I was able to solo tables in PoF as a necro though, never saw any mages there w/o a group.

     

    I should have went a little deeper in my statement. If a class is supposed to be an undead king, as you would think a Necromancer should be, his undead pet should not be gimped because another class soley depends their pet for DPS. As long as the true nature of the class isn't ruined or the abilities are not breaking the experience for other people, then they should not get nerfed for the reason I mentioned previously. 

     

    There are a couple of arguments against undead pets being as strong as a summoners pet that could be made, the first being the fact that they are in a state of decay which in and of itself would weaken them in ways that a newly summoned creature would not be affected.

    Honestly, I don't mind if necro pets are as strong as summoner pets, but if that's the case they shouldn't have insanely powerful dots/nukes/whatever VR decides to go with for them. Diseases don't typically kill someone instantly, where as a giant fireball to the face more than likely would. There are some toxins and poisons that are fast acting, but not in every, or even most, case(s). However, I wouldn't expect to see someone get impaled by a giant icicle survive, but in games they do and we work their hp pool down by using all of these types of spells in concert while trying to make it so that if everyone is playing their particular classes appropriately no one class is overwhelmingly dominant in their particular area.   

    There are plenty of arguments for both sides, but what I don't want to see is one class being dominant in multiple areas and other classes just being kind of meh. The folks who pick those meh classes will be left LFG, which in turn would lead to less players or to everyone playing the same class. Both of those choices suck to me. Balance is key, and if that means making the necro pet weaker than the class that specializes in pets, well that sounds great and actually makes more sense in the long run. If as someone else said the necro class went more towards being a utility class, absolutely let their pets be powerful in different ways that make them more utilitarian, but if they are a pure dps class making them the king of dot dmg and pets that are equivalent to the summoners, we really have no reason for summoners bc they will lack in direct magic power in comparison to a wizard and their pets wont be anything special since necro pets are just as powerful.

    • 35 posts
    May 7, 2018 2:08 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    It's been my personal experience in MMOs that DPS typically has the lowest demand due to being the highest population and support classes like Enchanters being the lowest population.  Even people that mained healers, tanks or CC also had a DPS class to play because DPS is typically more fun.  With that being said, I am seriously hoping that all classes will be equally fun in their own ways!  :)

     

    I'm Etahfo and I approve this message.

    • 2752 posts
    May 7, 2018 2:11 PM PDT

    zendrel said:

    You don't really need 3 classes for CC though. DPS is always going to be the highest demand since many of those have some form of CC anyway. Keep them as a dps class.

    They kind of do need at least the 3 though, if people are going to take the quaternity seriously anyway. As it stands it seems most DPS have to trade some damage to maintain CC so most of the time I think groups would rather have a dedicated (and more powerful) control focused class/role in the group. 

     

    Heck have Necro pets be part of their CC with things like a dreadful stare for single target mez or just have the pet grapple mobs.

    • 35 posts
    May 7, 2018 2:23 PM PDT

    zendrel said:

    DPS is always going to be the highest demand since many of those have some form of CC anyway.

     

    That is basically WoW and nearly all other mmorpg's released since WoW. Just get enough dps in the group to burn everything down and there is no need for cc. That won't work in this type of gaming envinronment. This is definitely a more team oriented style of game that will require everyone to pay attn to their surroundings and avoid those mass pulls like we can do in WoW as we plow our way through dungeons. Actual pullers are needed, and not just the tank running in and aggroing the entire room bc more than likely that tank won't make it back if he tries that.

    DPS is always the easiest slots to fill in this type of game, so building around your healer, tank, and cc is definitely the way to go to get the most out of each session.

    • 223 posts
    May 13, 2018 9:58 PM PDT

    I remember that not all spells and Wizard skills in the early stages of EQ were center on combat alone, I do recall my teleporting skills were of wast use to get people to a new location fast or even travel to town to sell others loot from deep in lower Guk, my reputation and trust in the server were impecable as I would never cheat a fellow adventurer and rides were done for donations and runes, many times for free and with iou's. This is the kind of class usefulness some people forget, in combat it was some small booms , a few large booms or helping with a sleep spell, root or a stun. There was a lot of utility to a wizard class if a significant spell list of other nature are included, oh yea haw some people loved my buffs too.

    • 109 posts
    May 14, 2018 3:30 PM PDT

    I always liked the idea that a Necromancer would have a pet arsinal at his/her desposal for certain situations like a rogue, tank or dps pet so I hope this is something we'll see in Pantheon.  I'll never forget the first time I saw a Necromancer summon a reaper, it was fantastic!  Then later being able to summon one myself was kick arse.  I'd rather see Pantheon offer as many class options as possible rather then it feel rushed.  It just won't feel like a complete game without Necros.

    • 223 posts
    May 17, 2018 5:58 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    bryanleo9 said:

    Dashed said:

    I thought the comments (lack of comments actually) on how the druid heal mechanics functioned were interesting. The evasive non-answer let my imagination roll and I envisioned druids going the way of the RunePriest in Warhammer Online (that would be awesome). Basically a melee healer that had to hit and get hit to obtain heal powers.

     

    I see them being like the blood mage in Vanguard.....nuke target to heal group.

     Wizard did a great role as crowd in eq as controllers in a pinch, with a root and snare, plus the sleep spell along with stuns

    Agreed.  Rift's druid, the Choloromancer is what I am expecting, pretty much a straight copy.  Which is fine by me, that was the best class in Rift.  

     

    But....could also be reactive healing where they place a spore (debuff) on mob and any time someone hits it, they get healed a bit.  I think EQ2 did that with the Cleric.  Still could go in several directions.

    • 223 posts
    May 17, 2018 6:38 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    bryanleo9 said:

    Dashed said:

    I thought the comments (lack of comments actually) on how the druid heal mechanics functioned were interesting. The evasive non-answer let my imagination roll and I envisioned druids going the way of the RunePriest in Warhammer Online (that would be awesome). Basically a melee healer that had to hit and get hit to obtain heal powers.

     

    I see them being like the blood mage in Vanguard.....nuke target to heal group.

     Wizard did a great role as crowd in eq as controllers in a pinch, with a root and snare, plus the sleep spell along with stuns

    Agreed.  Rift's druid, the Choloromancer is what I am expecting, pretty much a straight copy.  Which is fine by me, that was the best class in Rift.  

     

    But....could also be reactive healing where they place a spore (debuff) on mob and any time someone hits it, they get healed a bit.  I think EQ2 did that with the Cleric.  Still could go in several directions.

    • 1479 posts
    May 17, 2018 11:11 PM PDT

    But....could also be reactive healing where they place a spore (debuff) on mob and any time someone hits it, they get healed a bit.  I think EQ2 did that with the Cleric.  Still could go in several directions.

     

    The cleric/inquisitor's reactive healing were put on the player and not on the mob, however it's not especially different.

     

    However on the nuke side, the problem is balancing damage output with the healing output, especially in situations where it is possible to AOE and duplicate a lot of damage into heals. I'm not sure they will choose this road as it's really "dangerous".

    • 393 posts
    May 19, 2018 7:17 PM PDT

    First, thanks to Chris (Joppa) for welcoming the opportunity for the interview! Second, big thanks to Bazgrim for a very well rounded examination of Pantheon classes. Great inquiry and consideration regarding much of the gray area about classes that I personally have had. Kudos!

     

    Some of my thoughts:

    I'm thrilled that there will be epic abilities that require considerable player investment to obtain (Master seeking). Having the opportunity to pursue epicness in protracted, if not dense, objectives was one of the things that really set EQ apart from many other titles. Something I very much enjoyed. I'm glad to see it utilized in Pantheon for class progression!

     

    Getting (most likely) the Bard and (possibly) the Necromancer in for launch would be such a boon! I'm sure it's really great news for those that exclusively want to play those classes. Having more variety will really pay off in everyone's gameplay. Also, I can definately see the Necro being utilized as a third CC class which would really put a unique slant on that class as well as rounding out the quarternary class ratio very nicely.  

     

    Clarifying the distinctions between the tanks and healers in terms of their specific roles and identites is a topic I'm so thankful to understand more of!!! The past year, or so, I've been barely lurking these forums because I got tired of rolling the same information (or lack thereof) around in my head and I really needed a breath of fresh air to rejuvenate my interest in Pantheon. So, thanks Joppa for sharing what you did! I found the Shaman's unique link to life and lineage, the Direlord's bloodletting schema, and the Paladin's conversive foundation fascinating and fantastic. I also feel more confident that all archtypes will come to the table offering distinctive equity to all levels of game-play! I'm hoping that the reduction of specific details about the Druid will likewise be awesome as it's the class I will main -- at least I have that to look forward to. So thanks for the cliffhanger there! 

     

    The only thing I wish I could chew on a bit more is information about crafting and questing. In due time I suppose. Overall, the interview, and the recent three class reveals, was a much needed fix! Again, thanks so very much to the both of you!!!

     

     

    • 2886 posts
    May 21, 2018 5:43 AM PDT

    Great thoughts, OakKnower! If you want more info on crafting, and didn't already know, I also did an interview with Corey "Ceythos" LeFever, the designer behind Pantheon's crafting system here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qG-RdZBD8


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at May 21, 2018 5:43 AM PDT
    • 393 posts
    May 21, 2018 5:03 PM PDT

    Awesome Baz, thanks! I'll go check that out.

     

    Edit: Just watched the video. Good stuff there. Thanks again Baz! Great job.


    This post was edited by OakKnower at May 21, 2018 6:52 PM PDT