Forums » Pantheon Classes

Feign Death

    • 58 posts
    April 10, 2018 9:20 AM PDT

    Hi All,

    I've seen much discussion and mention in the streams about Feign Death. I don't particularly see the point in having this ability. I mean, I get that it would be useful, but it seems as though it's a "must have" for pulling and grinding experience, and I don't understand that. My first and favorite MMO was EQoA and on there, if the puller (which was almost always the tank) pulled too many, then they better deal with it or die. I get that the FD ability is for the puller to allow the tank to focus on doing just that, tanking. But it seems a bit unnecessary to me. What are your thoughts about FD being in Pantheon and do you think it's a must-have ability? Thanks!

    • 3 posts
    April 10, 2018 9:36 AM PDT

    Feign Death is really about splitting and queuing up mobs to set the grind pace.  It's also a convenient utility ability, dropping into somewhere to train all the mobs past and area so your group can safely move into position.  Personally I always loved the flavor feeling of monks camping the long running spawns while feigned, just kind of in their solitude laying on the ground, watching the place where something might spawn in a few days.  The monk version of meditation but with more hermitude.  Also sometimes you need it to perform advanced overflow xp pulls for other groups.

    EQoA was such a good time.  I want to say that I played a rogue, but maybe it was an enchanter... at any rate I always pulled by leaving some kind of trap, caltrops on rogue maybe?  Wish my memory was better but the game changed alot through the beta when I played most.  Good times.

    I like FD but you know, could see pulling being done with other tools.

    • 58 posts
    April 10, 2018 10:01 AM PDT

    I suppose my OP was a bit misleading in my comment "I don't see the point..." I do see the point in the utility of the ability and various unique encounters. I guess what I was confused about and wanting to discuss is the necessity of the ability in grinding and pulling. I am not familiar with using that as a means of pulling, so when I play a tank (will be an alt, main will be Druid!) I will likely be confused as to why a monk is pulling for me as I'm use to doing it myself. I don't want to be accused of "not doing it right" when it really seems like it's just a, for lack of a better phrase, rose-colored meta. "It has to be that way because that's how it was in EQ!!!" Thoughts?

    • 303 posts
    April 10, 2018 10:46 AM PDT

    Neyos,

    EQ1 did not have linked encounters - meaning if there was a group of mobs (or bosses) a monk, or team of monks (raids) could use their FD ability to only pull 1 mob/boss to their group/raid. With all the stuff going on in some raiding areas, that was necessary to keep your raid alive.

    • 1728 posts
    April 10, 2018 11:15 AM PDT

    Retsof said:

    Neyos,

    EQ1 did not have linked encounters - meaning if there was a group of mobs (or bosses) a monk, or team of monks (raids) could use their FD ability to only pull 1 mob/boss to their group/raid. With all the stuff going on in some raiding areas, that was necessary to keep your raid alive.

     

    It rarely was a matter of links, but of  social radius. Aggro radius were pretty average but sometimes, social radius were bigger, meaning you could approach an ennemy at 10 feets, but if he aggro you, every mob at 20 feets was socially aggroed too, and of course this could make chains because every mob could have a roamer, a patrol, an other mob at 20 feets and thus, you ended pulling a LOT.

    Of course this is the worst case scenario, but the monk utility here was that you had two aggro scenario once the monk/SK/(necro) FDe'd ;

    -Threat wise :

     *Aggro remain, the mob will run back at you and socially aggro every other mob when you stand up out of FD.

    *Aggro wiped, the mob will not run at you if you stand up (but could be still socially aggroed by others).

     

    -Movement wise :

    *The mob remain in place, and will eventually (on a probable random timer) walk back to his spot/patrol if the aggro is wiped or if the puller doesn't stand out of FD.

    *The mob returns back to his spot/patrol as soon is the puller FDed, and if the aggro is wiped or if the puller doesn't stand out of FD.

     

    The interesting part here was that on a pack pull, you had mobs standing in place aggro wiped, moving back aggro wiped, standing in place with aggro on stand up or moving back with aggro on stand up. Thoses multiple patterns will end up, with multiple attempts of FD or for big raid targets, multiple FDers, would make them able to slowly split the initial pull into smaller pulls, then single mob, until it's safe to bring it back to you team for a proper butchery.

    That was extremely satisfying to do, bringing some unique tools on the table that no MMO really tried later, the ability to manage the pulls pre emptively instead of in crisis. With a monk the mezzes weren't so needed but they could be usefull as well, but in some sort it's a form of control, where instead of controlling the ennemies, you control the flow and rate at which they reach your team.

    • 2575 posts
    April 10, 2018 11:47 AM PDT

    It's not a must have by any means, but tanks probably won't be the ones pulling regardless. Pulling can be done with a monk or very likely any CC class or class with lulls... I imagine ranger and enchanter will be excellent pullers, possibly rogue too with traps. 

    • 24 posts
    April 10, 2018 2:05 PM PDT

    If you've never seriously pulled (as in bad pull means easy wipe and a lot of wasted time due to location/clearing trash) with Feign, Fade, Lull, Harm, snare, double pull tags, sneak throw etc I think it's tough to grasp the gameplay involved. It turned out to be such interesting gameplay that they kept it in and designed around it for many years.

    Personally hope it's in for the bards as well (and for analogs like the SK and Necro). Loved it, interesting ability that changes the dynamic of encounters if you have the ability in the group.


    This post was edited by diableri at April 10, 2018 2:05 PM PDT
    • 1459 posts
    April 10, 2018 6:30 PM PDT

    Neyos said:

    I suppose my OP was a bit misleading in my comment "I don't see the point..." I do see the point in the utility of the ability and various unique encounters. I guess what I was confused about and wanting to discuss is the necessity of the ability in grinding and pulling. I am not familiar with using that as a means of pulling, so when I play a tank (will be an alt, main will be Druid!) I will likely be confused as to why a monk is pulling for me as I'm use to doing it myself. I don't want to be accused of "not doing it right" when it really seems like it's just a, for lack of a better phrase, rose-colored meta. "It has to be that way because that's how it was in EQ!!!" Thoughts?

    Having never played EQOA...but played early eq heavily, I'm questioning the difficulty of EQOA after reading these posts.

    Assuming you are playing difficult, current, content...whether mobs were CCable or not (often they weren't...for this hypothetical situation lets say they aren't CCable)...and you pulled 2 or more as a tank puller? What did you do?  Just die?  

    I'm assuming there will be plenty of situations where pulling multiples is guaranteed death if we are to believe the "challenge" hype that has been advertised.

    Granted, monks likely won't be the only class with FD...and won't be the only class who can single pull in some situations...enchanters and bards and direlords are likely all decent pullers. 

    But at the high end of the challenge spectrum...it's single pull or death a lot of times.

    • 58 posts
    April 12, 2018 9:17 AM PDT

    Thanks everyone for all the replies. I think I'm just going to have to experience this mechanic first hand to truly understand and appreiciate it as you do. Since I'll me maining a healer, I shouldn't have any problems analyzing how this works froman outside perspective. Then, I'll try it out on my own with my tank. :)

    • 3377 posts
    April 13, 2018 12:27 AM PDT

    EQOA used body pulling, also known as proximity pulling.  Wasn't an easy game.  Rather than using monks to split packs you had to proximity pull single mobs out of packs or tight corridors.  I would consider this more challenging because it required pinpoint precision to get the pulls right and you didn't have a get out of jail free card if you messed up.  If you pulled adds you would need an enchanter to mezz them or some other class to help with fear/root/charm, etc.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 13, 2018 12:29 AM PDT
    • 1459 posts
    April 13, 2018 1:06 AM PDT

    Proximity pulling was a standard tactic used in EQ as well. From my experience its not reliable when facing challenging content with tightly packed mobs/wanderers. But it was another method monks used fairly often. Also known as sit pulling. Even with fd monks died a lot at times trying to split difficult mobs...and if they didn't come single your whole group/raid died. Proximity pulling is not something a tank could do to reliaby  get singles in difficult content.

    What would you do with the non-CCable mobs 187?  Offtanking worked ok in raids, not as well in single groups.  Did a lot of groups run with multiple tanks for non-CCable mobs ?


    This post was edited by philo at April 13, 2018 1:58 AM PDT
    • 58 posts
    April 13, 2018 7:02 AM PDT

    Yes, 187, exactly right. I couldn't think of a term to describe the pulling method used in EQOA. I would agree that it wasn't "easy" at all for most, if not all, of the leveling phases throughout the game. 

    philo said:

    Proximity pulling was a standard tactic used in EQ as well. From my experience its not reliable when facing challenging content with tightly packed mobs/wanderers. But it was another method monks used fairly often. Also known as sit pulling. Even with fd monks died a lot at times trying to split difficult mobs...and if they didn't come single your whole group/raid died. Proximity pulling is not something a tank could do to reliaby  get singles in difficult content.

    What would you do with the non-CCable mobs 187?  Offtanking worked ok in raids, not as well in single groups.  Did a lot of groups run with multiple tanks for non-CCable mobs ?

    What exactly do you mean by "difficult mobs" or "difficult content?" If the content was SO difficult that it required this very strategic method (I'm not saying I wouldn't want things difficult, btw) it seems very inefficient for grinding purposes. Now, I have never experienced the FD pulling firsthand, so it could be efficient and just plain different. But how it's being described here, it seems like it's such a "must-have" ability in order to survive any type of pull in the game, otherwise it's just too "difficult." That seems silly to me at first glance, but once again, I could totally be misunderstanding it. I will say that in EQOA, the grinding and pulling was efficient; sometimes too efficient IMO. But, never did it "require" some specific ability or strategic tactic so advanced that a normal tank couldn't do all the pulling and tanking. 

    Now, in a raid situation, all the raids that I remember from EQOA involved clearing out trash prior to a raid boss, and then just "tank-and-spank" the boss. There were never really any additional mobs that would arise in the middle of a raid boss fight, so off-tanks weren't really a thing. I believe there were a few exceptions to that, but not to the extent that it would wipe an entire raid party because the adds weren't handled; they were mostly a nuisance really. Anyways, I think I'm in for some cool learning with Pantheon and this pulling strategy. I hope VR makes it viable to grind with both strategies either in every situation or just a few that would need one or the other. Thanks for the responds!


    This post was edited by Neyos at April 13, 2018 7:03 AM PDT
    • 1728 posts
    April 13, 2018 7:33 AM PDT

    Aggro range pulling was also used in eq. I believe inflicting damage had a bigger assist radius than body pulling from max range, but I don't remember for sure.

    • 24 posts
    April 13, 2018 9:03 AM PDT

    I never played EQOA so I have no context as to the difficulty levels of the areas but in EQ, as you progressed in power you generally moved into new areas of the most current content. We'd level/key farm in group content because there were empty areas as the expansions dropped and few people had keys. You might be pulling to a spot where you could easily come back with 10 mobs and a miniboss which would absolutely destroy your group at that power level. With no feign or kiting ability/room with a peeler or good CC (and at level/current content there was no CC that could handle that many and still have enough DPS to burn them down before the CC got overwhelmed), you had to just take the death and hopefully get drug/ressed. Ditto or dungeon areas.

    When people talk about difficult content in EQ, I think they're saying top tier areas when that content was top tier difficulty before the power curve overtook that ability to blow it up due to gear or levels. The difference in GoD on release and a year later... heh.


    This post was edited by diableri at April 13, 2018 9:05 AM PDT
    • 3377 posts
    April 13, 2018 1:58 PM PDT

    philo said:

    Proximity pulling was a standard tactic used in EQ as well. From my experience its not reliable when facing challenging content with tightly packed mobs/wanderers. But it was another method monks used fairly often. Also known as sit pulling. Even with fd monks died a lot at times trying to split difficult mobs...and if they didn't come single your whole group/raid died. Proximity pulling is not something a tank could do to reliaby  get singles in difficult content.

    What would you do with the non-CCable mobs 187?  Offtanking worked ok in raids, not as well in single groups.  Did a lot of groups run with multiple tanks for non-CCable mobs ?

    That's the beautiful part about proximity pulling ... it's not "reliable."  You can't reliably split a pack of NPC's ... you either nail the pull, or you get adds.  There was no safety valve that ensured clean pulls.  As someone who has played a tank for a long, long time ... I always looked at pulling as one of the more enjoyable aspects of tanking.  I enjoy setting the pace.  Proximity pulling may have worked differently in EQ ... in the games I used it, the "social radius" wouldn't be triggered by a body pull.  Proximity pulling was used as a technique to pull one mob out of a pack by walking into it's LOS range but not directly engaging it.  If you pull that mob with a bow attack, the social aggro would trigger.  Walking into it's range, and having it "notice you" wouldn't cause that social aggro to trigger.  This made the close quarter pulls more difficult because a half step in the wrong direction, or at the wrong time, would lead to adds.  In the cases where mobs might not be CC'able you would just need to make due.  You would ideally try to burn down whichever mob had the lowest HP to take them out of the fight as quickly as possible.  These were times where you would have to use your "oh crap" reserve abilities ... the big spot heals, the extra mitigation, etc.  If these abilities weren't up, you would probably just die.  I always enjoyed that style of play.  You get a safety valve (the combination of "reserve" abilities that the entire group has) but it has to be used strategically and has a long cooldown.  You couldn't reliably split packs and get solo pulls ... it required skill, not a cooldown.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 13, 2018 2:15 PM PDT
    • 19 posts
    April 13, 2018 3:31 PM PDT

    I played EQ for more time than I like to admit with 95%+ being on my Monk. FD is my favorite ability in any game ever and probably why i couldn't pull myself from playing the Monk. I think people don't quite understand that FD is not a guaranteed let me do this and now I have 1 mob, far from it. Some other people have touched on other uses, training mobs away just to clear a path for your group to walk through so you can get to a camp easier or something along those lines. Corpse recovery was also much easier with FD when you had see invis mobs and the like, just run in, FD, gather up and then work your way out. I dragged dozens of corpses on raids this way and without it the downtime would have been more exstensive. Camp checks also are a lot easier when you can just run somewhere, FD and check it instead of clearing somewhere to find it is clear or camped because people don't respond to a CC check or something. Monks were also able to PL a bit with FD, hurt the mob good, FD to clear aggro and then the other person finishes. Those are just some uses outside of pulling that FD can be greatly helpful. FD was also helpful to drop you on the aggro list if the tank was having a hard time keeping aggro mostly due to the sheer amount of hit aggro you could generate.

    Now for pulling though, where to start. In EQ over the expansions Monk's gained additional abilities that helped pulling even further, lull, imitate death, decreased cooldown and more of a chance to stay FD if hit by a spell just to name a few. If you boil it down to its original form though it still had a few ways that you could use it, with or without the sneak. Depending on the zone you would also have to use it many different ways, dungeons being trickier due to the minimal space you had to work.

    There were many a times breaking camps where I was just FD on the floor while the group beat up 1/2 mobs instead of getting the 4+ due to not FD pulling. You would pull the mobs to a corner and wait for mobs pathing to start, once LoS was broken and could safely be tagged a group member gets the one on top of you and you hope they didn't social/area aggro more. Then while the group is killing that you were busy standing up and seeing if you still had aggro on the other mobs, they don't come great go help kill the mob but if they do you can't really move, sometimes resetting aggro could take minutes. If you only pulled a couple and had enough room a lot of times you could just wait a few seconds, 1 mob paths back quick and then you tag the other and bring it back solo. Again this would vary a lot depending on zone and if you were trying to break a camp or already there farming.

    Outdoor pulling where you had a ton of space to use you could manipulate the mobs a lot easier, especially if you were just trying to pick 1 named guy out of a place for example. Drag the whole group out FD, wait for it to thin out or whatever and repeat. If all the mobs forgot you though and somehow the pathing made that 1 mob be out of the way a bit you can then just run around, tag him and there is your solo. Say your group did aggro by mistake or what have you though, you could run around and kite them while your group kills what they can. With FD if needed you could keep yourself safe and even yo-yo the mobs back once you get up if you still had aggro. In raids this type of pulling had a lot more use with multiple pullers being able to just pick apart a group if they were manipulating the scenario correctly.

    So yes FD has a variety of ways it can be used overall especially when pulling. Even more so if you really understood how the aggro worked, LoS and pathing and the ways you could get the mob you wanted to a certain spot. However it is far from a perfect ability and got me killed countless times. Casters are especially tricky when pulling, if you FD when they are casting and the spell hits you there goes your FD and you are just laying on the ground with a 15 second cooldown before you can do it again. Now your options are ok do I train my group, try to run around til it comes back up, just stand and tank there and hope it comes back in time, or in certain spots you just have to take the death. There is always a chance that your FD just fails straight up and this can happen multiple times in a row too even with a maxed skill. You can also think the mobs have pathed back and then try to pull the 1 left and end up snagging more than you bargained for without knowing until its too late. Mobs especially the higher lvl they were did not forget you as easy too, so breaking that camp may take more time than you would like. We all know perfect group makeups don't grow on trees so you may not be able to find that enchanter or bard you need for heavy CC. With FD though it allows you to take camps that you just couldn't if you were missing both of these things.

    I am not saying Monks should be the only pulling class but they should be the top tier for sure. As stated in the recent PAX interview the other classes that get FD will be getting a watered down version and in my opinion that is the right way. Lull/harmony spells should be available because again you rarely get the perfect group and other classes need to have an ability to pull. If you have an enchanter or bard then yeah you can probably have your warrior/tank pull and be ok. Even overpulls can happen in this scenario and you could get your group wiped if you are not careful. Having that FD class to pull can mitigate these more for sure. I also found when I in a good group though I was only killing the mob down to 50% and going back out for another pull. If you have your tank being the puller the constant pulls can be tough to keep up all the time. Meanwhile a Monk can go out without much worry of getting the group killed accidently aggroing something.

    To sum up FD is an amazing ability no doubt but if tuned right it should not be game breaking or too OP. It allows for a lot more group makeups to happen just because you can control the pulling that much more. It will fail though and you will die so count on it. I just have such a love for FD I couldn't imagine a Monk not having it, they would just be another DPS class at that point. Pulling for your group or raid will keep you busy and put a lot of responsibility on you though, it is not for everyone. When you do a good job though and you get that group that is just a machine it just feels so good.

    • 1459 posts
    April 14, 2018 4:26 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

     

    That's the beautiful part about proximity pulling ... it's not "reliable."  You can't reliably split a pack of NPC's ... you either nail the pull, or you get adds.

    Snowman did a good job summarizing.  But I do find the disconnect with those unfamiliar with FD interesting. 

    I've seen a team of monks "try" to single pull a mob for close to an hour, dieing multiple times along the way before finally achieving success.  It's definitely not as "reliable" as some believe it to be.

    There have also been times when multiples come and wipe the raid...


    This post was edited by philo at April 14, 2018 4:33 PM PDT
    • 3377 posts
    April 14, 2018 5:40 PM PDT

    I'm not a fan of it.  Pulling has always played an important role in risk vs reward while playing a tank.  I enjoy pulling and setting the pace.  Hopefully there are enough other things going on with tanking that will keep me attentive, engaged, and challenged.  Depending on how things shake out I may just end up playing a monk.  Monks are already a natural hybrid ... it seems absurd that they would also take over pulling duties from an entire archetype.  This might be something that EQ purists love but the majority of folks who play a tank as their main character (from other MMO's) expect to be viable pullers, IMO.  I would much rather see a return to body pulling where enchanters are used to mezz or mem-wipe adds.  FD being used as a splitting technique is extremely far-fetched.  Terminus is supposed to be a world filled with intelligent inhabitants but there is already an expectation that a monk repeatedly flopping around like a fish can split up encounters.  There are far more interesting and realistic approaches to splitting encounters ... tricking people with shadows, distractions (throwing a pebble), clones, etc.  The FD ability is the most immersion breaking skill I have ever seen in an MMO as well as the most exploitable.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 15, 2018 2:37 AM PDT
    • 1459 posts
    April 15, 2018 8:54 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

      Pulling has always played an important role in risk vs reward while playing a tank.  I enjoy pulling and setting the pace.  

    I get you like pulling, but there are so many games where the tanks job is to tank...not pull (not just an EQ thing). You seem to want to take on 2 roles.

    Maybe you would rather play more of a hybrid class that is designed to take on 2 roles ( tank and pull)?  A direlord will likely have fd to help pull and be able to tank.

      Even though I know you are an Ogre War guy, maybe you should consider a DL?  

    • 3377 posts
    April 15, 2018 9:18 PM PDT

    I consider pulling to be a part of the tanking role as I am quite accustomed to setting the pace.  That's how it was in EQOA, EQ2, FFXI, Vanguard, WoW, and FFXIV.  That isn't to say that there weren't situational pullers in some of those games ... situational pulling was really effective in FFXI due to XP Chains.  Summoners/Rangers/Monks/Bruisers had situational pulling in EQ2.  I'm not so sure that DL's will have FD but even if they do, I would imagine the cooldown being long enough to where an ideal use of FD wouldn't be used to split a pack.  I have never played another MMO where pulling was a core piece of the monk role.  Situational, sure ... but pulling and maintaining that dungeon crawl pace has always been an activity I have enjoyed as a tank and it's something I would be disappointed to lose.  Reputation is supposed to matter in Pantheon and I have always had an awesome reputation for performing great proximity pulls.  RIP.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 15, 2018 9:20 PM PDT
    • 24 posts
    April 15, 2018 11:24 PM PDT

    Hoping this game is not like EQOA, EQ2, FFXI, Vanguard, WoW, and FFXIV personally.

    • 1728 posts
    April 16, 2018 12:00 AM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    I consider pulling to be a part of the tanking role as I am quite accustomed to setting the pace.  That's how it was in EQOA, EQ2, FFXI, Vanguard, WoW, and FFXIV.  That isn't to say that there weren't situational pullers in some of those games ... situational pulling was really effective in FFXI due to XP Chains.  Summoners/Rangers/Monks/Bruisers had situational pulling in EQ2.  I'm not so sure that DL's will have FD but even if they do, I would imagine the cooldown being long enough to where an ideal use of FD wouldn't be used to split a pack.  I have never played another MMO where pulling was a core piece of the monk role.  Situational, sure ... but pulling and maintaining that dungeon crawl pace has always been an activity I have enjoyed as a tank and it's something I would be disappointed to lose.  Reputation is supposed to matter in Pantheon and I have always had an awesome reputation for performing great proximity pulls.  RIP.

     

    Most games (not all that you talk about, but most) tended to reduce the risks of pulling untill it became just a big orgy of AOE. In wow early era, you pulled as a tank for the initial aggro, but the group had set up targets firsts : Sap, sheep ready (not cast firsthand of course), repentance (when it was reliable : BC era), etc...

    FFXIV is just "pull and tank" so.. not the best example.

     

    Of course you pulled, but the game was set before and when you pulled, while in EQ it was usually set afterwards. Most controls included threat gain, thus they would make ennemies around the target aggro the caster. You had the lull line in priest, bards and ranger/druids book that allowed for aggro range and assist range reduction, but at the risk of beeing resisted (except for harmony) and pulling like you threw a nuke. Then came roots, mezzes and such, that were reactive to what was brought to your group.

    Monks were great when you had no enchanter or bard, as they could remove the theat of multiple pulls, sometimes you had both working together (as a monk I sometime chain pulled and the enchanter parked the mobs here and there, waiting for us to kill them), sometimes not.

    • 3377 posts
    April 16, 2018 12:11 AM PDT

    Quite familiar with all of those techniques and those are things I enjoy.  It's just personal preference but I would rather see encounter control (mezz/charm) be something that is quite frequently needed from the control sphere and have splitting require tactical proximity pulling combined with abilities like lull.  I don't mind situational CC like stun/root/fear/snare either, those are great.  Monks have always been the best proximity pullers and that isn't something I would want to see changed.  My main gripe is that I have always enjoyed proximity pulling as a tank and the idea of that going away to preserve FD splitting is meh.  Mobs splitting off to inspect a pebble is realistic.  Mobs splitting because they watch a monk repeatedly flop around is meh.  You would think they would inspect their corpses rather than act like they have no brain.  I have spoken with plenty of people who played a monk in EQ and it's understandable that they loved how the class worked, although plenty also agree that leveraging FD lead to an extremely easy way to trivialize content.  Must have been nice being a viable DPS, situational off-tank, and highly utilized puller with self heals and FD.  I figure warriors will be lucky to get 1.5 roles.  Emergency save-ass ability with low cool-down and high pulling utility ... I look at that and compare it to other iconic abilities and have thoughts.  Rogues get a potion they can hurl that has random effects.  Hhmmm.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 16, 2018 12:23 AM PDT
    • 24 posts
    April 16, 2018 12:28 AM PDT

    Meh, tank pulls then the whole group stands around waiting. Puller pulls, nobody twiddles their thumbs as they always have a job to do.

    Dungeon crawls proxi pulls are fine if the content isn't so difficult that a single roamer, add or resistant runner could wipe the group, camp pulling should have a puller and the group is always working on a mob with no down time. Since this game seems more camp based at bleeding edge content so far then I'd prefer not to be standing around while our tank is off trying to pull singles with no release valve but getting ressed and rebuffed. I'm personally hoping that proxi pulling is fine is easy content but a death sentance in cutting edge content.

    On the immersion note, would it be acceptable if the ability was just renamed? The Bard aggro wipe was called fading memories. The mobs magically forgot you, they didn't watch you flop around. The immersion thing is odd since it just takes a tiny bit of imagination to handle it. Zero reason that monks can't have that exact ability or any other of many versions that don't rely on "flopping around".

    • 3377 posts
    April 16, 2018 12:37 AM PDT

    It's just hard for me to imagine monks being so regularly involved with tomfoolery.  I think monks getting an ability that can knock an opponent unconscious sounds more realistic if you want to give them a form of viable encounter control ... the perfect strike to the temple.  Feigning death to split mobs is really really bleh to me.  Using it to clear aggro (assuming someone else reclaims it and distracts the NPC from the feigned monk) or avoid death makes a lot more sense.  As far as constant action is concerned ... that's exactly what I was talking about in FFXI ... but that game used XP chains so the sense of urgency to keep those chain pulls going felt more rewarding.  I'm sorry, but there is no variation of FD being used to split encounters that will make sense from an immersion perspective, to me.  If an NPC is looking at you ... and you randomly fall over dead ... that should trigger a reaction.  They should wonder what the hell just happened ... why were you there, how did you die.  They should inspect your corpse if you're the only player nearby.  Seeing the same monk do it repeatedly to get the split just right is laughable.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 16, 2018 12:43 AM PDT