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Skills and Spells

    • 64 posts
    April 9, 2018 2:53 AM PDT

    I made mention in another topic about skills and spells within Pantheon and thought about what I've seen done throughout various MMO's from EQ1 to ESO. I've seen what works and what doesn't and while there is a lot of innovation that simply falls flat, the same can be said for going back to a dated system in the modern era. What I mean to say is, by combining a singular solution to a venerable system from Everquest 1 and Vanguard, you open up a wide range of posibilities in how someone builds their character and even adds a host of replayability function as people try different builds.

    An overly simplistic example is this. Let's say you get [Fireball 1] at level 4. As you are leveling, once you get to level 8 you can select how to specialize it. Options are [Fireball 1 - Less Mana Cost], [Fireball 1 - More damage] [Fireball 1 - Better Resistance Penetration]. Let's say you choose [Fireball 1 - More Damage], when you get [Fireball 2] at level 12, it will be available to you through the vendor or quest as [Fireball 2 - More Damage]. Later in the game possibly add an option to reset your specialization at a cost of in game currency or by a difficult quest. Another example is something like a heal. At level 1 you have [Heal 1]. At level 4 or 6 you get [Heal 1 - More Direct Healing], [Heal 1 - Heals the closest player for 50%] or [Heal 1 - Reduced Mana Cost]. 

    These options open up a feeling of uniqueness and character that go a long way. 

    What you can then do is link these specializations into the quest system. While it was stated some spells and skills will be recieved through questing, you could also instead, have spells/skills mostly bought with later ones being quested, but have the specializations linked directly to a quest system. Have a Mez specialization for instance intertwined with a quest detailing an NPC Enchanter who is having horrible nightmares and horrific visions. In the quest you delve into his thoughts and through learning about his nightmare, you find out how to Mezmerize something differently. You have three options, one which has a lower resist, one that has a longer duration, and one that leaves the target completely forgetful. As you finish the quest, you learn which of the three you found as more effective.

    Now this is a roughly off the cuff premise to the quest and was merely an example but it shows that there can be a robust and very engrossing experience when building your character. It's something that can work wonderfully well in a game where grand encounters and methodical and detailed combat plays out like it did in Everquest.

    I welcome any suggestions or helpful or critical comments. 

    • 4 posts
    April 9, 2018 10:45 AM PDT

    Darkintellect,

    That is a great add to the game and will keep us quest playing along to achieve these special additives to skills and spells. The question is? Will it hurt the system mechanics and make for people to choose a class that might be sought after as opposed to another?

    Like mez for example, if an enchanter could make it to the third tier and mez an NPC to forget entirely, I would grab him or her due to the multi pull agro. (Meaning- The group wouldn’t have to worry about it because the NPC’s it was casted on would just walk away)

    You could pull anything and just walk through the game unnoticed?

    Unless you are going to put in a higher chance of agro area. (Meaning- The group would have to have a larger safe distance to be away so as to not re-agro.) And we all know how tough this can be in a dungeon.

    I still think this is a great plan to add these special abilities! (Just need to plan on the consequences if you do go that route)

     

    • 1782 posts
    April 9, 2018 11:46 AM PDT

    This is really just the same thing as talent trees/specializations from other games with a different paint job unless I am missing something. 

    • 64 posts
    April 9, 2018 11:49 AM PDT

    CrudeOblivion said:

    Darkintellect,

    That is a great add to the game and will keep us quest playing along to achieve these special additives to skills and spells. The question is? Will it hurt the system mechanics and make for people to choose a class that might be sought after as opposed to another?

    Like mez for example, if an enchanter could make it to the third tier and mez an NPC to forget entirely, I would grab him or her due to the multi pull agro. (Meaning- The group wouldn’t have to worry about it because the NPC’s it was casted on would just walk away)

    You could pull anything and just walk through the game unnoticed?

    Unless you are going to put in a higher chance of agro area. (Meaning- The group would have to have a larger safe distance to be away so as to not re-agro.) And we all know how tough this can be in a dungeon.

    I still think this is a great plan to add these special abilities! (Just need to plan on the consequences if you do go that route)

     

     

    No, this isn't a tiered specialization. Think of it as when you hit level 4 and get the spell, then at level 8, the specialization is given. You as a player can only pick one of the two or three possible options. The values are arbitrary and clearly arent balanced, but they are a suggestion to how the process works. Various players will want either of the three options but must make the choice that best suits their play style or dynamics regarding how they play in a group or raid environment. Mem wipe could be made to only happen on a chance. Remember, an Enchanter in Everquest could mem wipe with any of the mem blur spell line but it didn't always work and you never knew if it worked. This could be given a possible chance to keep it balanced but again, this is arbitrary and the effects or values aren't what I would think they'll necessarily go for. 

    A damage dealer for instance. A wizard could pick the resistance piercing morph to one of their ice spells and have a more damage morph to another ice spell while one of their fire spells has a damage over time morph selected. Each spell will have different variations to morphs so it's not all cookie cutter having all the same exact skillsets.

    In groups some people would rather an Enchanter with a mez that has better resist checks, or one who's mez last longer so they can CC more targets and do more things in the process. Keep in mind, all processes work still and well, it's just a change to how the Enchanter responds to it through his altered playstyle fit around his selection. The morph segmentation after the effects are proportioned would be like a game of 'Rock - Paper - Scissors'.


    This post was edited by Darkintellect at April 9, 2018 11:53 AM PDT
    • 64 posts
    April 9, 2018 11:56 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    This is really just the same thing as talent trees/specializations from other games with a different paint job unless I am missing something. 

     

    Talent trees are usually passive skillsets or change entire schools or groupings, this is more detailed and specializes more directly into each skill or spell. This is also why with ESO for example, there's a talent tree spec through Champion Points or AA in Everquest and that differs from actual skill or spell specialization. Direct spell/skill specialization choices intrinsically change the spelline entirely (fire 1, fire 2, fire 3 etc) into that choice.


    This post was edited by Darkintellect at April 9, 2018 11:57 AM PDT
    • 4 posts
    April 9, 2018 3:46 PM PDT

    Darkintellect

    I like where you are going with this idea.  Are these skill/spell specializations going to be limited to just a few or will this be for all the skill/spell sets?

    I have to admit I am extreamly intrigued with the whole thought process of your idea. If this does come to fruition. {My synapses are firing!!} Makes me want to create 2 of the same classes to see just how differently  the two tiers will react during game play. Also on a side note: I would like to thank you for taking the time out to make these types of suggestions to us your fans/community, thank you to the team as well for all you are doing for us the deprived/starved of a real MMORPG!!

    • 64 posts
    April 11, 2018 3:59 PM PDT

    First of all, I don't want to give you the wrong impression. I do not work for the Pantheon team. I'm merely a fan who played the original Everquest game since its inception. I'm only giving some suggestions in hopes one of the developers looks over and it'll help give them some ideas. A free source of ideas only helps them in their process and I want to see this project succeed and do well. 

     

    The suggestion would be to have all the spells/skills have this process or breakdown. Since a lot of spells are merely upgrades of former lines, this 'specialization' would only happen for a fraction of the spells since it's connected to a line (Fireball 1, Fireball 2, Fireball 3 etc). 

    • 9 posts
    June 20, 2018 11:16 AM PDT

    ESO does this sort of thing with their skills / abilities.  You have the base ability and when you use it or level it up enough, the skill gets stronger and then you can "morph" the ability. Which you pick between 2 different morphs of the base skill.

    It's a really cool idea!!  Now days in that game,  it's either a stamina based or magicka based morph (it didn't used to be). I wish after you used the "morph" you picked, that you could morph it again or make it a "master" or "specialized" skill. Add more depth & uniqueness amongst the same class. Pantheon could do something similar and make a quest line. That would be great!

  • June 21, 2018 4:36 PM PDT

    While I think the intent is to create a character that is unique to each of us, and I really can't argue with the fundamental idea, because it really is a welcome one. I will suggest that taking it too far can create situations whereby only certain specialization sets will be ultimately decreed as most desired and/or useful and leave a high level character - through no fault of their own - feeling useless as if they made poor decisions. Can you come up with a way to make them changeable? Maybe after doing a quest, or sacrificing enough X to a chosen god? With all of the race/class combinations available, and all of the proposed situational gear, I can't imagine feeling like you are just another clone of  the same class.

    To reiterate, I am not saying they are poor ideas -- they are good ones. I am curious if you have additional ideas to avoid the potential pitfalls?