Forums » Pantheon Classes

Subclassing/Specializating

    • 77 posts
    March 31, 2018 10:45 AM PDT

    Taking information from the previous stream with Jim Lee and Cohn, along with information on the internet, kickstarter, newsletters, etc. This is my theorycraft of how characters can be advanced. Taking the May 2017 newsletter, where Monk was revealed, we know that the monk specialization is planned to be body and soul, at least, that the idea. So thanking that information online with the kick-starter information that suggested each class will have at least two specialization, I have taken that “Idea” and expanded it across the classes.  Please take note, there is not a lot of information on the classes themselves, their skills, etc. So much of "thoughts" are theory, but has is enough to give a good idea of what I am talking about. I personally, do not like the idea of sub-classing anymore. I feel like, between the ideals and names being thrown around, this is possible future class ideas that is being used. Instead I think, taking each class into consideration and find a “theme" for them for their specialization is a much better idea. 

    We know, from previous streams, that the idea is that as you level up you able to learn abilities from your trainer, crafting, and out in the wild. There will be no, “backstab 1, backstab 2, etc, etc.” It also sounds like possible, that these abilities will level with you (?), or possible that these skills are tried to certain skills and effected by them. So taking that information into considering, lets say over the course of leveling from level 1 to level 50, you are able to learn a total of 30 skills over all. The chart below, these skills would fall into one of your specialization. Choosing one would allow you to improve that skill. Either do more damage, add new effects, etc. You could also have each skill is in each specialization, just depending on which one you pick, how that skill improves is different. For example, Paladin learns the abilities Shield Bash. In Justice, the rank increases the damage and aggro the paladin gets from using this skill. However, in Virtue, maybe this skill increases damage, but procs a few second buff to the paladin that increases his block chance. 

    Each specialization could also carter to different play styles. We know this because of information about the cleric. One will allow the cleric to get up into battle and help out while being able to heal. While the other, would allow players to stay back and heal, and be the heal bots that we know. You could also have it where, players can pick how they improve their character and not limit them in which specialization to go into. Instead opening it up, where the player can improve which skills he likes to use. Since there will be abilities that you have to find, maybe those skills cannot be improved until you find them. So they would appear "darken" out until you do.

    Either way, having a system in play, like everquest’s AA system, where at some point in your leveling you can start switching a percentage of your experience into a new pool that earns you points where you can invest in improving you character is a good idea. The only issue that I have seen from the AA system in everquest, was that it got way out of hand. I believe, by having the experience for skill points just like your adventuring pool is a good way to maintain the same feel as well as putting a cap on it. By this I mean, if it take you a year to go adventuring wise, level 1 to level 50. Then it should rough take the same amount of time to reach your class’s skill point cap. As level cap increases, new points can be earn, as well as opening up new points of investment.

    Classes & Specialization

    Class

    Specialization

    Cleric

    Battle

    Curative

    Focuses on Healing while dealing dps. Improved buff timers.

    Focus on healing from afar. Improved buffs that are cast.

    Paladin

    Justice

    Virtue

    Focus on Damage

    Focus on undead spells

    Focus on Tanking/Offtanking

     

    Warrior

    Sword

    Shield

    Focus on tanking thru damage

    Focus on tanking via other means; tank.

    Dire Lord

    Rage

    Fear/Dread

    Focus on Improving damage as damage is taken. Tanking via single target

    Focus on improving damage thru other means, tanking different targets.

    Ranger

    Wilderness

    Survival

    Focus on beast, and range combat

    Improves tracking.

    Focus on himself / melee dps

    Improve dmg vs. Target of the same “type”

    Rogue

    Cloak

    Dagger

    “assassin”

    Stealth, Lockpicking, disarming, etc

    Creates windows of oppitunity for others.

    Poisoning

    Improves dmg

    Improves survivaliablity

    Traps/Tricks/aclehmy like abilites

    Bleeding

    Monk

    Body

    Soul

    Devastating physical attacks

    Chi

    Self healing

    Defensive

    Summoner

    Beast

    Creation

    Focus on physical beast/creatures that they can call upon.

    Focus on damage spells.

    Focus on summoning creatures from other “planes”

    Focus on buffs

    Enchanter

    Mind

    Matter

    Focus on crowd control spells

    Illusions and buffs

    Focus on physical spells, spells like webbing, slow, etc.

    Wizard

    War

    Peace

    Focus on improving damage at the cost of more energy.

    Offers thru elemental damage- slows, dots, etc. Doesn’t last long, but helpful.

    Focus on saving mana but doing less damage.

    Offers buff spells

    Druid

    Wild

    Warden

    Focus on druid’s “elemental” spells.

    Focus on healing, defense.

    Shaman

    Primal

    Spirit

    Focus on elemental damage, poison and disease dots.

    Focus on healing, buffs, support.

    Bard

    Sound

    Verse

    Focus on improving their “songs”, allowing for more. Defensive and offering support.

    Focus on offensive, improving damage.

    Songs last longer, but can’t have as many.

    Offers improvements to dmg dealer.

    Necromancer

    Death

    Destruction

    Focus on Poison, disease and death, increasing duration and dots.

    Can create a small undead army

    Gains the ability to rez.

    Support

    Focus on Improving spell damage, Posion, Disease, Death, damage spells are stronger.

    Damage Dealer

    • 77 posts
    March 31, 2018 10:46 AM PDT

    Sorry, the table I made did not show up and doesn't look like I can create one. So hopefully, you can get the idea of what I am talking about. 

    • 2381 posts
    April 2, 2018 2:34 PM PDT

    The kickstarter info and things from around that time are mostly invalid sources of information as the Pantheon that was associated with them was a different game/world that was scrapped for the current Pantheon.

     

    That said, specialization/subclassing type stuff won't exist in the game as branches/talent trees or any other kind of either/or decision making.

    • 3086 posts
    April 4, 2018 12:44 PM PDT

    I think it's too early to definitively say whether or not something will or will not exist.  Colored mana is supposed to be used as a form of "sub-classing" to some degree.  The Living Codex allows players to enchant prime scrolls with various runes that appear to be an either/or choice.  We haven't heard much about the actual plan for specialization, either.  We know monks have both body/soul specialization choices but not much beyond that.

    • 1253 posts
    April 4, 2018 2:31 PM PDT

    As 187 pointed out, we do know monks will be able to specialize.  I'm hoping that means we will get similar choices for other classes.  It seems likely.

    oneADseven said: We know monks have both body/soul specialization choices but not much beyond that.

    What we do know is that the kickstarter information is very outdated and the team who worked on it has been mostly replaced.  All that info is good for is to confuse people at this point.  It's definitely not valid.

    The OP mentioned AA systems.  AAs have been talked about.  They are planned for post release.


    This post was edited by philo at April 4, 2018 2:33 PM PDT
    • 2381 posts
    April 4, 2018 2:33 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    I think it's too early to definitively say whether or not something will or will not exist.  Colored mana is supposed to be used as a form of "sub-classing" to some degree.  The Living Codex allows players to enchant prime scrolls with various runes that appear to be an either/or choice.  We haven't heard much about the actual plan for specialization, either.  We know monks have both body/soul specialization choices but not much beyond that.

    They said in the last Cohh stream that they weren't doing sub-classing and any "specialization" wont be done as any kind of either/or type of system at least; no decide between x or y "spec" or talent/ability tree.  

     

    Things could always change of course, but that's just the latest info we have to go from. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at April 4, 2018 2:34 PM PDT
    • 1253 posts
    April 4, 2018 2:36 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    They said in the last Cohh stream that they weren't doing sub-classing and any "specialization" wont be done as any kind of either/or type of system at least, not decide between x or y "spec" or talent/ability tree. 

    Could you paste the bit where that is talked about ik?  I didn't come away with that...at least not as far as specialization?  Maybe I missed it.

    Edit: i just listened to what I think you are referring to. 

    The questions are sometimes vague and could use clarification about what was being asked...and then the answers sometimes tend to run on and get off topic.  I feel like it is one of those things where it is easy for the listener to hear what they want to hear. 

    We will have to wait and see.


    This post was edited by philo at April 4, 2018 2:43 PM PDT
    • 2381 posts
    April 4, 2018 2:44 PM PDT

    Sure thing, they talk about it for a few minutes starting here: https://youtu.be/QWgKSQJtHrA?t=1h41m42s

    • 1253 posts
    April 4, 2018 3:06 PM PDT

    Ya thats what I just watched before you posted it.  They say there won't be subclasses. And also: it won't be choice based..."at least not in general".  Whatever < that means?  

    I hear that and think there will be some options that are choice based even if it is not the norm. But they were referring to skills and abilities, not specialization, when they mention choices. I think most of us know they aren't going with a ability tree format. 

    It seems like a lot of questions asked in the streams are throw away questions that most of us who have been following the game closely already know. We had all heard we would have to go out of our way to acquire certain skills/spells etc.

    Alot of it is that the answers given are very general because the info has not been finalized at this point. So it is what it is.  The answers aren't finalized so they can't really give a specific answer. 

    They try to answer the questions the best that they can but there is a lot that is not final or could change.

     


    This post was edited by philo at April 4, 2018 7:55 PM PDT
    • 77 posts
    April 4, 2018 9:39 PM PDT

    Maybe I misword things, so let me explain.

    Monk newsletter said monk's specialization would be "body and soul".. so 2. If you looked at the kickstarter information, each class had 2 as well. So with that information, each class gets two, is what I based what I posted on. Nothing more. 

    • 100 posts
    April 4, 2018 11:32 PM PDT

    Maybe they mean stances? As exemple an offensive stance and a defensive Stance for Tanks.

    • 1584 posts
    April 4, 2018 11:39 PM PDT

    You don't need specializations if every class brings a pattern of spells allowing them to do a few things beside their main role.

     

    As an example, a warrior with ambidextrous attacks, dual wielding weapons and non threat generating attacks might add some damage (but not to the extent of reaching pure dps levels).

    A paladin swinging his sword in melee to replenish some mana might drop his healing spells to consolidate the group.

    A monk taking on a sturdy stance might hold a mob instead of using a control on it.

     

    Spec are based on pure role classes with no overlap, where you need to be able to change drastically how you play and what you bring on the table, and not on games with a blurry line between needs and what you got.

    • 1253 posts
    April 5, 2018 4:22 AM PDT

    dayhjawk said:

    Maybe I misword things, so let me explain.

    Monk newsletter said monk's specialization would be "body and soul".. so 2. If you looked at the kickstarter information, each class had 2 as well. So with that information, each class gets two, is what I based what I posted on. Nothing more. 

    Making that correlation seems logical.  Except that we have been told time and time again that the old kickstarter info is outdated and doesn't pertain to the game any longer.  Its an almost entirely new team since then.

    I made a post similar to yours Op in 2016.  I tried to connect kickstarter info to what we already knew..  Here was Kilsins response:

    Kilsin said: Kickstarter is not a good place to gather information on Pantheon as it was a failed event that is 2 years old, many things have changed since then, it is best to either wait for class reveals or go by the information on this site ;)

    It was 4 years ago at this point...


    This post was edited by philo at April 5, 2018 4:33 AM PDT
    • 37 posts
    March 17, 2019 8:54 AM PDT

    I really like the idea of going back to some form of specialization to make classes more diverse.  A necromancer that doesn't use a pet, but focuses on lifedrains or CCing.  I think a monk could really just be a warrior that puts points into unarmed fighting and dodging rather than wearing armor.  A wizard that forgoes an element to make a different element stronger. An enchanter that focuses on charming, but sacrifices some ability to CC - or vice versa.

    Mal

    • 10 posts
    May 6, 2019 2:41 AM PDT

    Malleable said:

    I really like the idea of going back to some form of specialization to make classes more diverse.  A necromancer that doesn't use a pet, but focuses on lifedrains or CCing.  I think a monk could really just be a warrior that puts points into unarmed fighting and dodging rather than wearing armor.  A wizard that forgoes an element to make a different element stronger. An enchanter that focuses on charming, but sacrifices some ability to CC - or vice versa.

    Mal

     

    You should totally develop a game with those class parameters. I'd give it a shot.

    • 77 posts
    May 6, 2019 8:00 AM PDT

    Actually I take back what I have previously posted. Seeing how more information and details has came out about just about everything. I currently would like to see the following:

     

    an AA type system but not like we know from EQ but instead you learn/find skills from your trainer/drops/wild/etc. You even find upgrades to them increasing the skill itself. Late game/End game, I'd like to see a system in place where you earn points like the AA system, but now you can add effects and stuff to your skills. A system that going forward in expansions and stuff, you still have to find the skill/improvements like from trainers, drops, etc, but the "AA" type system only adds a layer on top of it.