Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Bazgrim's 18 MAR 2018 Stream Recap

    • 2886 posts
    March 19, 2018 10:56 AM PDT

    Visionary Realms and their good friend CohhCarnage joined forces once again to showcase some gameplay footage for the first time in a while, in order to give us a better idea of what an actual adventure in Terminus would look like. This time, they took us to the underground dungeon, Halnir Caves (HC). The group was level 14 and was composed as follows:

    Ben "Machail" Dean (Director of Communications) - Dwarf Warrior
    Brad "Aradune" McQuaid (Chief Creative Officer) - Human Warrior
    Chris "Joppa" Perkins (Creative Director/Lead Game Designer) - Human Cleric
    Tim "Convo" Wathen (Associate Designer) - Gnome Wizard
    Kim "Zoeii" Morrison (Lead Tester) - Human Enchanter
    Cohh Carnage - Elf Rogue

    As always, keep in mind this is an early iteration of the game, so almost everything is subject to change, but of course it's still very good to know what the current state of the game is. The stream was about 2 hours long and took place on the Avendyr realm (server), which is a live Pre-Alpha realm and we could see some external testers currently in the zone with them. Rather than a Q&A style stream, the team focused primarily on strategizing and playing their characters well, just like a player would on a typical day in Pantheon. However, we still learned quite a bit of information. Here are what I would consider the highlights - important information that is new or now more detailed:

    Ambient Mobs:

    - Spawn dynamically from the environment itself (Ex: ground, ceilings, etc.)
    - Deal high damage, but have very few HP
    - Act as a surprise to keep players aware of their surroundings
    - In HC, Psyrachnids and Cellis Creepers are examples of ambient mobs

    Endurance:

    - Limits how much you can spam your melee abilities, so you have to be more strategic about how you use them
    - Regenerates much faster than mana
    - Will most likely be capped at a value of 100
    - There may be some gear and abilities that increase the rate at which you regenerate endurance

    Atmospheres:

    - Atmospheres are unnatural (magical) phenomena, as opposed to Climates, which are natural phenomena
    - There may be atmospheres of complete darkness in which you absolutely need a light source to see, or rely solely on sound cues

    Player Abilities:

    - There are noticeable visual effects to show which mobs are mesmerized
    - Currently, abilities on your hotbar can't be switched out during combat
    - The Rogue will have abilities that throw potions at medium range and create various effects
    - There will be limitations to Invisibility - you won't be able to just cast it and scout out a large area with impunity
    - Enchanters have a nuke spell that, when it deals damage, spreads a little bit of mana to group members
    - Hide makes a Rogue effectively invisible as long as they don't move
    - Sneak makes a Rogue's movements silent so they can remain undetected as long as they are behind a mob
    - Some abilities will scale with you as you level up
    - There are some "lines" of abilities, where you acquire direct upgrades to previous abilities with different names
    - There will not be traditional ability "ranks" (Ex: Backstab III, Backstab IV, etc.)
    - There will be spells that dispel magical effects
    - Some abilities will be affected by your skill levels (Ex: 2-Hand Slashing, 1-Hand Blunt, etc.) 

    NPC Abilities:

    - All Drawn Ratkin in HC have an innate quality called "Drawn Sickness" which is a disease that has a chance to spread to players
    - All Wraiths in HC have an innate ability called "Fading Presence" that slows players' movement and attack speed
    - Wraiths in HC can temporarily steal your Armor Class and give it to themselves
    - The Black Rose Warden in HC has a "Warden's Shout" ability that acts as an AoE stun
    - Some wraiths in HC can cast a spell on themselves that acts as a damage shield

    No-Rent Items:

    - Can be dropped by wraiths in HC, in addition to other mobs throughout Terminus
    - Will typically be a significant upgrade to most gear at that level
    - Will disappear upon zoning or logging out, but not dying

    Miscellaneous:


    - Clicking on a colored link in the chat box will bring up a window that shows that item's stats
    - There will be a third Pre-Alpha phase soon
    - Since the Perception system is designed to be optional, it will not act as a gate to important content, only "flavor" areas
    - In the group window, next to the name of the party member is their class icon with an arrow pointing in their direction

    For more information on specific topics, click on the timestamps below:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240178335?t=10m21s style="top: 0px; white-space: pre; position: fixed; clip: rect(0px, 0px, 0px, 0px); -ms-user-select: text;">https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240178335?t=10m21s00:10:21 - Introductions 
    00:13:32 - Halnir Caves
    00:14:49 - Ambient Mobs

    00:16:53 - Endurance as a Resource
    00:18:08 - Perception System Example
    00:25:20 - Availability of Hotbars
    00:31:20 - Ranged Classes
    00:35:03 - Climates vs. Atmospheres

    00:36:54 - Combat Pace
    00:38:50 - Soloing Viability
    00:43:13 - Death Penalty
    00:44:43 - Instancing
    00:47:59 - Perception as a Content Gate
    00:50:56 - Testing Pledges
    00:54:00 - Examples of NPC Active Abilities
    00:58:33 - No-Rent Items
    01:01:32 - Name Reservations
    01:02:02 - Examples of NPC Innate Abilities
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240178335?t=50m58s
    href="https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240178335?t=01h16m30s">01:16:30
     - Shaman Role 
    01:22:59 - The Appeal of a Classic MMO

    01:28:39 - Group Size
    01:30:47 - Invisibility
    01:32:47 - Gaming with Limited Time
    01:34:54 - Skill Acquisition
    01:37:33 - Inspect Ability
    01:39:46 - Console Compatibility
    01:46:32 - Alternate Advancement System
    01:50:53 - Class Progression
    01:55:59 - Payment Model
    01:56:40 - Ability Ranks
    02:08:43 - Corpse Consent
    02:09:26 - Climbing

    Alternatively, the whole stream is available on Visionary Realms' YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgKSQJtHrA

    If you liked what you saw in the stream and haven't pledged already, you can do so here: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/join/

    Overall, the amount of progress that has been made on the game continues to be very impressive. I hope you enjoyed the stream as much as I did and found this recap helpful. Now we look forward to what is to come! Don't forget to watch the next stream with Jim Lee on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 8pm PDT (11pm EDT) on www.twitch.tv/jimlee. (VOD here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnQD5xoQADE&feature=youtu.be ;) And remember, Visionary Realms will be demoing Pantheon at PAX East 2018 in April. I'll be there covering every moment of it on @BazgrimTV :)

    As always, thanks for reading!

    Baz


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at March 26, 2018 5:57 AM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    March 19, 2018 11:11 AM PDT

    One of the big things that stood out to me was when they were talking about class specialization/progression and how they aren't making it an either/or choice or skill/talent tree type thing. A soft class progression that requires the players to find all the skill/ability components of their class out in the world. Personally I am so glad to hear it!

    • 22 posts
    March 19, 2018 1:18 PM PDT

    Great write up, Baz! Thank you for everything you do for the community.

    • 2756 posts
    March 19, 2018 2:11 PM PDT

    Iksar said:One of the big things that stood out to me was when they were talking about class specialization/progression and how they aren't making it an either/or choice or skill/talent tree type thing. A soft class progression that requires the players to find all the skill/ability components of their class out in the world. Personally I am so glad to hear it!

    If the classes are interesting I don't suppose it really matters, but I'm kinda disappointed it's going to be cookie cutter.

    It sounds like you will have to work harder to get your abilities, but everyone will have exactly the same ones once the Wiki says where they are, when you can go and what you do to get them.  The differences between two characters of level X class Y will only be defined by what abilities one lacks compared to the other.

    "Looking for a level 10 enchater for a group"

    "Hey, I'm level 10!"

    "Did you do the quest for your Mez yet?"

    "... no ..."

    "We'll wait for one that has..."

    Having to do quests and go and find your abilities would be the perfect way to give players choice in what *way* your character progresses.

    You find out there's a trainer in the city and you need to work in the militia to get him to train you a defensive stance. Also there's a trainer in a mercenary group you need to help to get trained in an offensive stance. If you work for the militia, you get bad faction with the mercenaries and vice versa and can't train the other stance.

    I think Brad started to talk as if there would be progression 'choices' but was then 'corrected'...

    • 2886 posts
    March 19, 2018 2:30 PM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Iksar said:One of the big things that stood out to me was when they were talking about class specialization/progression and how they aren't making it an either/or choice or skill/talent tree type thing. A soft class progression that requires the players to find all the skill/ability components of their class out in the world. Personally I am so glad to hear it!

    If the classes are interesting I don't suppose it really matters, but I'm kinda disappointed it's going to be cookie cutter.

    It sounds like you will have to work harder to get your abilities, but everyone will have exactly the same ones once the Wiki says where they are, when you can go and what you do to get them.  The differences between two characters of level X class Y will only be defined by what abilities one lacks compared to the other.

    "Looking for a level 10 enchater for a group"

    "Hey, I'm level 10!"

    "Did you do the quest for your Mez yet?"

    "... no ..."

    "We'll wait for one that has..."

    Having to do quests and go and find your abilities would be the perfect way to give players choice in what *way* your character progresses.

    You find out there's a trainer in the city and you need to work in the militia to get him to train you a defensive stance. Also there's a trainer in a mercenary group you need to help to get trained in an offensive stance. If you work for the militia, you get bad faction with the mercenaries and vice versa and can't train the other stance.

    I think Brad started to talk as if there would be progression 'choices' but was then 'corrected'...

    Not all abilities will be acquired through questing. That is just an example of how some more powerful abilities can be found. For example, more common (essential) abilities can be bought at trainers and some may be looted from average creatures. But I agree it would be cool if choice matters and some quested abilities may lock you out from others.

    • 2752 posts
    March 19, 2018 2:31 PM PDT

    disposalist said:

    "Looking for a level 10 enchater for a group"

    "Hey, I'm level 10!"

    "Did you do the quest for your Mez yet?"

    "... no ..."

    "We'll wait for one that has..."

    That issue is compounded 10x over when classes are fractured into talent or ability paths/specs.

    • 115 posts
    March 19, 2018 2:37 PM PDT

    - All Drawn Ratkin in HC have an innate quality called "Drawn Sickness" which is a disease that has a chance to spread to players

     

    Totally reminded me of this....

    • 2886 posts
    March 19, 2018 2:38 PM PDT

    Bonechip said:

    - All Drawn Ratkin in HC have an innate quality called "Drawn Sickness" which is a disease that has a chance to spread to players

     

    Totally reminded me of this....

    Lol yeah I thought of that too. I trust that they have learned a lesson or two from that :P

    • 2756 posts
    March 19, 2018 3:59 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    disposalist said:

    "Looking for a level 10 enchater for a group"

    "Hey, I'm level 10!"

    "Did you do the quest for your Mez yet?"

    "... no ..."

    "We'll wait for one that has..."

    That issue is compounded 10x over when classes are fractured into talent or ability paths/specs.

    That's probably true in some games. Doesn't have to be though?

    • 3237 posts
    March 19, 2018 4:13 PM PDT
    That kind of scenario doesn't bother me. Nothing wrong with prioritizing an enchanter with mezz over one that doesn't have it. It's okay to set an expectation of progress ... I really miss that sort of thing. It leads to players seeking help from others so that they can meet various performance/ability checks. It can be a compelling factor that drives player to player interaction. If a group doesn't want your enchanter because you don't have mezz ... acquiring it sounds like a reasonable goal that you should set out to accomplish.
    • 1860 posts
    March 19, 2018 4:52 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    disposalist said:

    Having to do quests and go and find your abilities would be the perfect way to give players choice in what *way* your character progresses.

    I agree it would be cool if choice matters and some quested abilities may lock you out from others.

    I agree with this as well.  I appreciate these type of choices that give options to build a character how I'd prefer.

    • 9115 posts
    March 19, 2018 5:23 PM PDT

    Great job, Baz! Thank you man :)

    • 211 posts
    March 19, 2018 5:44 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    disposalist said:

    "Looking for a level 10 enchater for a group"

    "Hey, I'm level 10!"

    "Did you do the quest for your Mez yet?"

    "... no ..."

    "We'll wait for one that has..."

    That issue is compounded 10x over when classes are fractured into talent or ability paths/specs.

    I agree, and this is why I'm glad Pantheon is not doing this. It happens every single time.

    • 221 posts
    March 19, 2018 5:47 PM PDT

    Thanks for putting that together, Baz. 

    • 470 posts
    March 19, 2018 9:58 PM PDT

    I caught it live but that's a great resource for reference points. Thanks, Baz.

    • 69 posts
    March 20, 2018 8:02 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    If the classes are interesting I don't suppose it really matters, but I'm kinda disappointed it's going to be cookie cutter.

    It sounds like you will have to work harder to get your abilities, but everyone will have exactly the same ones once the Wiki says where they are, when you can go and what you do to get them.  The differences between two characters of level X class Y will only be defined by what abilities one lacks compared to the other.

    My thought is if there are a lot of varied abilities you can unlock, yet you're limited in the number you can have ready at any given time - that this will effectively create varied class builds just based on what abilities the player chooses to have equipped for use.

    It would be more of an a la carte system than skill trees.  This increased flexibility seems more organic by letting the player decide which abilities best compliment others.

    • 9 posts
    March 20, 2018 7:45 PM PDT

    oneADseven said: That kind of scenario doesn't bother me. Nothing wrong with prioritizing an enchanter with mezz over one that doesn't have it. It's okay to set an expectation of progress ... I really miss that sort of thing. It leads to players seeking help from others so that they can meet various performance/ability checks. It can be a compelling factor that drives player to player interaction. If a group doesn't want your enchanter because you don't have mezz ... acquiring it sounds like a reasonable goal that you should set out to accomplish.

    This.  I don't mind at all finding out what I am missing - especially if the player who's deciding to wait for the next one happens to know where I can get it, because that let's me know what I should be doing instead of trying to jump into a party I'm not ready for yet.  

    • 2 posts
    March 21, 2018 6:38 AM PDT

    Thank you Bazgrim!

    • 2 posts
    March 21, 2018 11:30 AM PDT

    Thanks for this format!

    • 52 posts
    March 21, 2018 5:27 PM PDT

    Awesome recap Bazgrim, thank you!

    • 16 posts
    March 21, 2018 6:05 PM PDT
    Great format and recap Bazgrim!
    • 217 posts
    March 22, 2018 5:41 PM PDT

    Gr8 recap Bazaroni with cheese!

    • 2886 posts
    March 26, 2018 5:59 AM PDT

    vigilantee13 said:

    Gr8 recap Bazaroni with cheese!

    lol that's one I haven't heard before! You're welcome everyone :) I always have fun doing these.

    • 613 posts
    April 3, 2018 2:40 PM PDT

    Nice write up!  

    • 346 posts
    April 9, 2018 2:12 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    If the classes are interesting I don't suppose it really matters, but I'm kinda disappointed it's going to be cookie cutter.

     

    I felt the same way and thought about how other games have done it to include older ones with a skill based system like DAoC and more modern MMOs like ESO that have random skillsets which have a tier based and a specialization function. Having a tier system (Fireball rank 1 through 4 which inceases with use) like in ESO is rather arbitrary. Everyone is rank 4 within a few hours in a particular skill so it's pointless. If skills took longer to level up and were more like a level 1-50 range and leveled through use in parallel with level I could see it work somewhat. In that, those skills people used more often would then be specialized in it. Think of it like in Everquest with the five spell skill schools we had (Abjuration, Alteration, Evocation, Conjuration, Divination), the more skilled you were the less you fizzled and if I recall there was 'Specialize' (Specialization Alteration etc) subskill that gave a chance at a reduced mana cost on cast of that aprticular spell. Instead however, it's the specific skills/spells themselves instead of a spell school which you level through use and increase in power while capped at the primary level of your character. This way you can't have a level 5 with 15th level Fireball or Mez. But there in lies the problem. You have those who play all the time and with enough time can master every possible skill. This creates a balance scenario where the capability of a person who plays a ton and one who only plays a little but are both max level is too disparate. Content must be tuned with too broad a skill based capability to be functional.

    Then that brings us to a specialization function where we can later choose a more specific function of a skill to better fit our class choice. This I can see as working in Pantheon and I would heavily suggest the team to make this an option as this is a method that would work wonderfully for the quest based system. While some core skills/spells later are to be quest only, the specialization where you can select either two or three or even four possible options would make for a better design under the system. Have the quest written in such a way as it fits within the premise of the spell in question. This would open up such class design option and replayability that it would be much more enjoyable for those who want to feel like they've put a unique spin to their character.

    However, another thing to note, other games which have a specialize skill function also have too few skills overall, like Guild Wars 2. Most of the modern MMO's have far fewer skills or spells than Everquest had. My Enchanter by 2006 had something like 300ish or so spells. Yes a lot are upgrades but the total compliment of spells that were all used was about 50ish. That's easily three times the number I find that are used and twice as many as ESO or FF14 which itself has a rather large pool.

    Having more skills available opens that up, but while tier based is useless and arbitrary and I'm happy they don't plan on it, the idea of split specialization would honestly have a huge impact on the game and people's interest.

     

    What some would ask is, "How would a specialization work when skills are upgraded?". Simple, have the specialization you pick determine the type of spell upgrade you get.

     

    Here's an example. Let's say you get [Fireball 1] at level 4. As you are leveling, once you get to level 8 you can select how to specialize it. Options are [Fireball 1 - Less Mana Cost], [Fireball 1 - More damage] [Fireball 1 - Better Resistance Penetration]. Let's say you choose [Fireball 1 - More Damage], when you get [Fireball 2] at level 12, it will be available to you through the quest or however as [Fireball 2 - More Damage]. Later in the game you can reset your specialization option at a cost of in game currency or by a difficult quest, whatever.