As some have said above, I think Pantheon will be better than EQ and I'm pretty certain it will be because I went back and tried EQ (Project 1999) recently.
It was excellent and brought back many of those early-MMORPG feelings, but it also was ultimately unfulfilling (though only after a few months this time, not a few years like the first time, unsurprisingly).
Also as some have said, the subsequent MMORPGs were excellent! I played many of them for as long as EQ and, though a lot of them 'lost their way' and ruined themselves, to a certain extent none could last forever with how they had been designed.
If EQ Project 1999 had somehow been updated to be a more satisfying experience and be re-designed to have better longevity built in (not strapped on like the real EQ which a lot of people still play - good for them, but I found it over-complex and underwhelming) it would be awesome.
If Pantheon is anything like a new-and-improved Project 1999 that's all many will want to scratch the double-itch of Old-EQ-comes-back and new-MMORPG-awesomeness.
From what I've seen in streams, it's already there.
I'm not ging to argue that expectations can exceed a final product.
But I will say that I enjoyed many games initially, as much as I enjoyed EQ. What eventually lost my interest was a variety of things.
This is an off-the-top of my head list of reason I eventually quit many games.
- Game was too fast.... Reached max level and was left with nothing of interest to do.
- Loss of freedom.... The game eventually turned to being on rails, leading you from place to place. With very few, if any, options to just go out and do things.
- Questing.... I hate, excuse me, I loathe, when games make quest the primary form of xp gain. The game as a whole IS THE QUEST, forcing me to do menial tasks and adventures for the sake of advancement sucks.
- Friend... My friends moved on to other games or quit all together, and in many games it was those relationships that made it fun.
- Loss of interest... This one is often the result of a combination of the things above, but in general, if I'm not thinking about what I will do when I log in, on my way home from work. I've lost interest.
I honestly can say that while CR's suck, spellbooks sucked, endless hours of grinding in a single camp sucked, trains sucked, and a mutlitude of other things sucked, in the end, many of those things were the catalyst to some of the most lasting memories I've had in games.
I'm absolutely with you @Nimryl re soloing. I think the main issue with most MMORPGs these days is the whole experience being soloable. Not only soloable, but anti-group, since if you did group up things became so easy so as to be less than pointless.
Pantheon is not going to be that way. It's a prime tenet to have group content the overriding priority.
Of course, it's not like it *can't* fail, but it's very very different from other MMORPGs that have.
SoWplz said: Just thought I would throw this out here. The sad truth is this game will not be as good as many of us hope. Everyone ( myself included ) keep refering to other games most seem to be EQ. And trying to recapture that feeling. The truth is you can't. For many of us EQ was that first hit, and as many users say "we are chasing the dragon" trying to find the hit just as good as the first. But you never will. Then people I feel bad for the most are the devs. They are like Metallica trying to recreate Ride the Lighting album. Just my opinion, lets just enjoy a great game, but not put our expectations up that this will be the greatest game to fill that empty hole in all of us that other games (mainly EQ) has left us with. This post is ment in jest and just something to think about, not trying to make a big deal. Now hurry up and release!
They aren't trying to make the MMO to end all MMOs. My expectations for this game, whilst high, I do realise that it will have flaws but you can learn to love the imperfections - no game is perfect.
After watching the streams and listening to the devs. i do think this game has the potential to be very special, and if turns out that way, watch the subs roll in. Of course VR need to deliver, I think they will, they have passion.
OP you just burst my AWE bubble.... thanks man ill never forget this...
Joking aside, we had enough disappointments over the years after EQ, i still played for 18 yrs put in tons of capital to the SOE later daybreak, so now i am just looking to have fun and meet other people like kilsin. Great lad he is, maybe one day meeting him in game or on coms. Otherwise i couldnt care less getting back what EQ was, we had some many ups and downs in EQ as it was. Mostly those Fing Nerfs so lets start a fresh slate for us older gen players.
I am looking forward to it all, but i do not want some easy mode either.
SoWplz said: Just thought I would throw this out here. The sad truth is this game will not be as good as many of us hope. Everyone ( myself included ) keep refering to other games most seem to be EQ. And trying to recapture that feeling. The truth is you can't. For many of us EQ was that first hit, and as many users say "we are chasing the dragon" trying to find the hit just as good as the first. But you never will. Then people I feel bad for the most are the devs. They are like Metallica trying to recreate Ride the Lighting album. Just my opinion, lets just enjoy a great game, but not put our expectations up that this will be the greatest game to fill that empty hole in all of us that other games (mainly EQ) has left us with. This post is ment in jest and just something to think about, not trying to make a big deal. Now hurry up and release!
I've said before that the ultimate Everquest 1 remake would be the same game with updated graphics and physics, but completely re-distributed loot drops and quests and re-made spawn locations and patterns. Essentially we would be familiar with the "physics" of the world but would have no idea where all the best stuff came from, where the best XP farms were, or where the best quests were. It would have all of the exploration and discovery but none of the frustration of learning a new game system.
Seeing as the emulators have a hard-on for exact duplications, this game seems to be the next best thing.
disposalist said:though a lot of them 'lost their way' and ruined themselves,
I have been playing MMoRPGS since Ultima and this includes almost every one since. This statement is so so very true. The" I wanna solo" mindset and the trend in not grouping nor having to find a group has killed the genre.. Look at DOAC for example it was a vibrant game and then for some odd reason the removed LFG panel the game died a slow death. I am not speaking of forced grouping just make it easy for me to find one and have quests that you need grouping..
I work on the hardware side of gaming and just watch every single one out there take a nose dive becasue they dont stick to thier guns on the correct issues.
bigdogchris said:I'm not asking for Pantheon to replace my novel memories of EQ, I'm only asking to create new memories.
^
This. After all, the most important thing in life is not how good or bad you are at things but the memories you derived from doing things in the first place.
Would only like to comment regarding the social aspect, since i see it's being mentioned here:
As always, perception. Lacking from most.
Yes yes, i know, how dare i. In this day and age.
You need to step aside and look at it objectively, if only for a minute, your preferences notwithstanding:
What should a massively..multiplayer..online, sure.. role playing game be about?
- Role playing isn't making 2746452 hard rules (which no one even asks if you agree with), isn't about what is IC or OOC, or about talking high English and 'out loud' so passerbys can hear us while walking by and think how awesome we are. Not really; somehow, yes, that's what it's manifested itself as since the first MMOs, but that's just due to MMO RPG 'peasants' accommodating a culture and ruleset they had not much connection with in the first place and making it up as they went.
(which is always the case when a mass number of people find themselves involved with what used to be a minority's practice btw. Is that not trendy after all)
Barring your inability to accept plain facts just because they do not suit you? What is not Role playing now ascertained, let us move on to the question :)
Is pew pewing in numbers, the button mashing, just for the loots, role playing? Hell no.
Now you may like doing just that, pew pewing, and only that, shallow as it is. Might be, it being the single thing you do care about, that you've no interest in role playing in the first place. Maybe all you give a damn about is finding others to pew pew pixels together and get the fat loots. The same ones you're gonna be discarding less than a week later. Good for you, i respect that. It's what you like.
But your having such a shallow preference (all instances being figurative, not addressing anyone in specific) does not entail its being a rule; it remains a preference :)
So when you say that massively+role playing=pew pewing together (let's be frank, basically killing **** over and over) or else it's 'fail', 'dumbed down', whatever, you're just plain wrong.
The concept of 'people' need not entail a forced need to depend on them, an artificial, arbitrary barrier, non-circumventable. People can be there to socialise, to talk to, to give a feeling of realism/verisimilitude (the world is 'alive'); to trade with, to argue with, to ask or receive from. This is not dumbing down or mainstream, this is what actually helps solidify true roleplaying.
If anything, the issue is shallow people wanting to kill pixels all day long; with or without grouping; forced or otherwise. I believe we've seen that long enough to understand what it usually amounts to?
So while again, everyone's preference is respected, do try and separate 'i like" from 'right and wrong'.
And because, shallow being shallow, someone will talk about 'x' title and how "mainstream" that was; for the second time, stop posting and start thinking. What it took to do the killing was made mainstream. The pew pewing was made mainstream. Not the RPing; these titles, they never really offered that in the first place. You want hardcore pew pewing, good for you. Just keep in mind that this does not entail, or even involve, role playing. Not in the slightest.
As for hardcore, i won't even go there.. something in the vein of Dark Souls could be called hardcore. Didn't need grouping, needed skills. By your definition though, if someone made -that- into an MMO, would it also be "mainstream"? No forced grouping, right? So a fail? Because on the contrary, i've seen plenty of old farts (self included) going around in full tier epics over the years.. So it's not really "difficulty", is it; anyone can 'beat' an MMO. So where does your definition of 'easy' really spring from? Who trained you thus and why, 20 years later, have you still not reconsidered all this? :)
So that's regarding the social aspect. Or rather, the distorted way in which most perceive it: A ticket to loots.
(and i hope you'll excuse the above, though it's not as out of topic as you may think. For a good number of reasons, but this is already long enough as it is. Let's just call it a footnote on people, the potential they may bring, and the shallow way in which most perceive them when it comes to MMO 'RPG's; whether they've come to realise it, or not)
As to Pantheon itself, i honestly think it will do really great. Not because it will be 100% EQ, it won't; not because it will bring any depth or emphasis to other/tertiary activities; it won't, it doesn't even care about those things; 90s all the way. It will do great because i) it has no competition and ii) is catering to a mature(er), EQ-like starved audience. A solid base is the most important thing for expanding and it already has it. Actually, it earned it. For good or for worse, time will tell :)
Actually...you play a character, that could be a gnome (am I a gnome in RL? nope) who professes to be a wizard, (again am I wizard in real life..ohhh maybe I am :P) My point is, just playing a character created in the character select screen is your first step into roleplaying. Now if you want to play on a roleplay ruleset shard/server and walk about speaking in Medieval English or Pig Latin, you are definitely roleplaying. Same for someone playing a character on a pvp ruleset server/shard. You can play a scoundrel.."pker"..or you can be the good guy that exacts revenge on the "wrong doer". IT IS ALL ROLEPLAY....personally pvped for years in several games. Do I kill people in real life? Of course not.
SoWplz said: Just thought I would throw this out here. The sad truth is this game will not be as good as many of us hope. Everyone ( myself included ) keep refering to other games most seem to be EQ. And trying to recapture that feeling. The truth is you can't. For many of us EQ was that first hit, and as many users say "we are chasing the dragon" trying to find the hit just as good as the first. But you never will. Then people I feel bad for the most are the devs. They are like Metallica trying to recreate Ride the Lighting album. Just my opinion, lets just enjoy a great game, but not put our expectations up that this will be the greatest game to fill that empty hole in all of us that other games (mainly EQ) has left us with. This post is ment in jest and just something to think about, not trying to make a big deal. Now hurry up and release!
One more comment to the OP :) This game will be as good as WE as a community make it.
That means employing a little gamer etiquette, set the good example, don't fight over who gets what camp, got room in your group? INVITE...be friendly, talk it out, say...oh am about done with this camp..need one more drop then I am out.
Make friends, that person may do the favor back or not, depending on mood, character ..whatever.
Remember that VR states #communitymatters....get to know people ..help out, you'll get help in return. I remember a NINE day camp in Najena, didn't know a soul at that time wayyy back at the start of EQ. We were camping for journeyman boots, yes we had a couple jboot ninjas drop in on us and steal the loot.
But we were a continuous group for nine days, one person got their boots, dropped out, add the next person waiting in line. That's how we were back in the day. Those are some of the good memories I retain. And I am STILL in contact on Facebook with some of those very people I met in that jboot camp those many years ago. That was 1999, its now 2018. Let's do this eh? :)
SO...it is up to us..as a community. :)
Cana
EQ1 was my first MMORPG and yes it's been hard to recapture that feeling with how MOST MMOs have been. But I truly enjoyed Vanguard more than my time in EQ1 even with how broken VG was at its inception. I even enjoyed EQ2 and Rift for a spell though nowhere really near EQ1/VG. So it's not impossible for Pantheon (with not only a very talented dev team but also a handful of devs from either one of or even both EQ1 & VG) to meet high expectations.
We have to separate our expectations from our own memories. And trust me, if you can't do this then growing older is going to suck lol. But if Pantheon is anything like EQ1 or VG or even FFXI (I believe FFXI wasn't a themepark) then Pantheon will simply be our setting and only provide half of the fun while it's up to the players to create the rest...to create NEW memories.
Just food for thought. :) cheers!
What made EQ great for me was the huge world to explore littered with quests and lore. Vanguard accomplished that. Pantheon's focus will be that. I have confidence I'll enjoy the game.
OP, I don't know why you felt the need to tell us how awful the game was going to be then say ha ha it's just a joke don't think too much about it. I hope you enjoy the game, for all your blustering.
Edit: CanadinaXegony is right, too, with their point about the RPG in MMORPG not having anything to do with lofty community-designed tenants of roleplay. When I log in, the game is designed to let me experience the world as a dwarf in a high fantasy setting, where both magic and meta exist, just like in the real world.
As someone who's been around the block a few times, I totally get the point the OP is making: it's easy to let your expectations grow beyond all reason, but it'll be better - for you and for the game - if you don't. But I also know there are at least a few, and maybe very many, folks who have given serious thought, in a grounded way, to what made some MMOs fulfilling and others little more than eye candy. I think the folks at VR have given that a lot of thought, and when I listen to Aradune and Joppa and others talk about what they're trying to accomplish with Pantheon, I don't see some wannabe grill master waving his hands talking about how fantastic his steak is going to be, I see sober chefs describing the practical process they're going to follow to make a good steak - and it makes my mouth water :)