Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How open is your mind?

    • 37 posts
    March 9, 2018 12:00 PM PST

    i would create a reaper like ennemy spawning randomly inside a specific dungeon who could summon a whole group when close to die inside an otherwise unaccessible aera within the dungeon, there that group of players would have to cross a complex layout, within the main dungeon, filled with hard ennemies and traps, at the end, they would have to face  that reaper again, but harder version, that "boss" would summon minions, have AoE effects, mezmerise/stun/charm capabilities etc, granting upon its death a key, that key would allow that group to access a new aera within the main dungeon, with new mobs, bosses, traps, shining loots, of course those places would be more camping places to that group and others who also got the key, nothing instanced of course, the group who get the reaper first gets to enter that aera, the others wait for their chance to face that reaper, the group who got the key can also open the "locked" door to others groups, but the door should go back in locked state after a few secs (let's say 10 !) and can only open from one side.

     

    so that was my idea for a "new" AI, i call it "the keyper" :p

     

    • 1860 posts
    March 9, 2018 12:23 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    Kilsin said: Some great replies here folks, nice job, keep them coming! :)

    I just want to say, I'm really enjoying and appreciating these questions (and everyone's answers).

    I know some are enjoying Pre-Alpha testing currently, so I'm imagining that these are questions pertinent to the process or to design decisions you are still making.

    Even if you're just trying to keep our interest piqued while we wait for Alpha/Beta/Release, it's doing a good job!

    It really gives me a sense of inclusion and is helping me stay sane while waiting ;^)

    Thanks, Ben!

    (SO looking forward to Alpha!)

    Quoted for emphasis.  I feel the same way.  Well said.

    • 9115 posts
    March 9, 2018 4:02 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    Kilsin said: Some great replies here folks, nice job, keep them coming! :)

    I just want to say, I'm really enjoying and appreciating these questions (and everyone's answers).

    I know some are enjoying Pre-Alpha testing currently, so I'm imagining that these are questions pertinent to the process or to design decisions you are still making.

    Even if you're just trying to keep our interest piqued while we wait for Alpha/Beta/Release, it's doing a good job!

    It really gives me a sense of inclusion and is helping me stay sane while waiting ;^)

    Thanks, Ben!

    (SO looking forward to Alpha!)

    I am glad you like them, my friend, I try to put a lot of thought into the questions to get the most interaction and hopefully pick interesting topics that you folks like to discuss! :)

    • 9115 posts
    March 9, 2018 4:02 PM PST

    philo said:

    disposalist said:

    Kilsin said: Some great replies here folks, nice job, keep them coming! :)

    I just want to say, I'm really enjoying and appreciating these questions (and everyone's answers).

    I know some are enjoying Pre-Alpha testing currently, so I'm imagining that these are questions pertinent to the process or to design decisions you are still making.

    Even if you're just trying to keep our interest piqued while we wait for Alpha/Beta/Release, it's doing a good job!

    It really gives me a sense of inclusion and is helping me stay sane while waiting ;^)

    Thanks, Ben!

    (SO looking forward to Alpha!)

    Quoted for emphasis.  I feel the same way.  Well said.

    Thank you, my friend :)

    • 12 posts
    March 10, 2018 10:26 PM PST

    I'd like to see an AI system similar to what EQN was going to implement - The sense of agency. Mobs having a purpose in the world and reacting accordingly - Traveling in packs, reproducing, changing climates, making nests/burrows/caves, etc and guarding it (or something in it), retreating when necessary, planned ambushes, the ability to trap players, etc. This is the kind of stuff that does a good job of masking the whole "kill and respawn" cycle. The more living and breathing the world is and the more of our ability to interact with individual mobs and NPCs, the more agency we have, the more each indivudual player can change things and make an impact, and the more it indeed feels like a world.

    • 15 posts
    March 11, 2018 7:11 AM PDT

    Response to weather conditions would be cool. Mobs and npcs coming in or seeking shelter from rain.

    Reduced aggro range due to weather (sight and hearing reduced during a rainstorm) allowing one to sneak by or get closer in poor weather.

     

    • 40 posts
    March 11, 2018 9:46 AM PDT

    From what I've seen there has been a minor improvement on the Player actually Verse the Enviroment. What I'd like to see from the AI is playing a larger role in the enviroment itself, and more unique approaches towards how they approach Players & Groups.

    For example.

    First and foremost, NPC's are typically built off of Player classes. (ie. Cleric, Wizard, Warrior) With that being said each type of NPC class should recognize each PC class at different threat levels regardless of aggro. (What this really means is that certain classes to certain mobs will generate aggro faster than other classes, so a NPC essentially can decide which the best order is to kill player groups to increase their chance of survival.) This can be achieved by using a simple armor system Light, Medium, Heavy, and adding an aggro boost by say 10% against certain opposing armor classes. So for example if the NPC is a wizard (light armor/magic weilder) It will generate aggro against heavy armor wearers is the PC group faster since they should inherantly have lower magic resist. So both the tank and the cleric would generate aggro faster than the rest of the PC group assuming they are wearing light and medium armor. Doing this will make aggro more challenging to handle and require groups to be more aware of what types of NPC's they're fighting. This will also prove to become exponentially more difficult with the more NPC's you have to deal with as a group at any given time.

    Another idea is based off of a faction system where each PC has a kill counter and when it reaches a certain number of kills on said faction the PC's aggro range for that faction increases, this would espically be the case for bosses or named mobs in the area that you're farming. For example if spend all week killing orcs and you kill say 10 thousand of them, and then the orc king spawns (Who happens to be a zone roamer) he could potentially spot you from half way across the zone and make it a point to come say hi. This will make it difficult to set up camps for too long and force players to move around and be aware of what could happen if they push their factions to the limits.

    For the last idea which is more enviromentally aimed, I have two things. The first is that each race of NPC has it's own unique ability so when you fight a new race for the first time you might not be ready for the ace up their sleeve. For a quick example, A goblin detonates upon death damage to everything nearby in a small radius, while a fairy mid battle might shoot out dust that mezmorizes everyone in a certain radius for 30 seconds. (Endless possibilties here.)

    The second thing is NPC's using the enviroment around them randomly triggering things like exploding barrels, traps, or even using the land itself. The best examples I can give of this would be, a player gets too close to a stone wall and the NPC triggers a rockslide, or a player gets to close to a tree and become entangled in roots, and things of that nature.

    The bottom line is the world should be dangerous and there should also be things that can randomly occur if certain circumstances are met. These are primarily more and > or scenerios that will really help bring the world to life. The NPC's are the inhabitants of the world, the players are just visiting. Remove all the players and ask yourself is the world really alive? If you can answer yes, then you've accomplished something no one else really has. 

     

    • 120 posts
    March 11, 2018 10:05 AM PDT

    madmike556mm said:

    Response to weather conditions would be cool. Mobs and npcs coming in or seeking shelter from rain.

    Reduced aggro range due to weather (sight and hearing reduced during a rainstorm) allowing one to sneak by or get closer in poor weather.

    I like this idea. It was also mentioned in the weather thread. I think that NPC's responding to exterior, non-player input would go a long way towards making the world come alive.

    I also like the idea of NPC's reacting to news and events. For example, if an NPC's faction leader was killed it should affect the NPC's behaviors. Maybe they are more likely to flee or flee at a higher HP percent, or maybe they are more likely to cast gate instead of just fleeing into the next room, or maybe they go berserk and try to avenge their leader.

    • 1315 posts
    March 12, 2018 5:13 AM PDT

    Code Name:  Faction Flag

     

    Mechanics: This is less of a specific AI behavior and more of a concept of how to make certain types of behaviors more dynamic over time without as much hand work.

    Each NPC would have a Class, Faction, and Faction rank value.  Classes could be simply warrior, priest, mage, rogue. Factions are pretty self-explanatory though it would be interesting to see on NPC with multiple faction affiliations and how that would change its behavior tree.  Faction Rank will indicate the NPCs importance to the faction and the relative hit killing them would give you. Faction rank can be split into Private, Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, General, King.

    Based on Class/Rank matrix each faction would have a behavior tree to draw from.  These behavior trees respond to players class and faction ratings but also can be influenced by the players other faction ratings.  Over time as the plot line of PROTF develops then it would be a fairly simple process to go into the faction trees and change some of the behavior trees which they themselves could draw upon a master behavior tree which can also be changed.

    I included Rank as a way to tailor the refinement or the vehemence of the behavior responses.  An example of this would be a Warrior Private might talk like an ignorant farm hand and when he sees a PC that con’s very RED to him and has a Kos reputation with his faction might just turn around and pretend he doesn’t see the PC.  A captain priest on the other hand may be a well spoken fairly low level healing NPC but even when a godlike KoS PC shows up they will attack without thought to the likelihood of victory.  NPC will also support the highest ranking NPC but if that NPC is killed then they might possibly revert to a more passive response.

    The other benefit to a centralized behavior tree is that “current events” can be tied into the speech patterns of npcs in a blanked sort of way. By changing a few controlling scripts you could change the entire worlds responses, or at least their gossip chatter.

    • 36 posts
    March 13, 2018 8:54 AM PDT

    Havent read the other answers, maybe this got announced already.

    Full life system. If the NPC creates an Foothold they should plan to reinforce the foothold by raising supply/defence etc. If Players dont take care about an Orc-Footholdn for example, the foothold can expand. Orcs can enable a replensihment route to their foothold to make em stronger to become a village or a real town or fortress. If player attacks this replensihment route they start to protect this route with more soldiers of all kind. AI should follow a big goal not only NPC behaviour and fixed spawn points of a counted number of mobs.

     

    • 1315 posts
    March 13, 2018 9:33 AM PDT

    Loorn, thats kind of what I was trying to capture with "Faction Flag"  but I could see it working in a general open world format similar to ant hives.  A queen spawns and wanders off to a "good" spot and digs a hive.  After a certain amount of time worker ants start spawning out of the hive that becomes a small cave that is only there when a queen is present.  After another amount of time if the queen is not killed she will spawn another queen.  The second queen wiill then go out and dig another hive.  The zone would need to have a hard set maximum number of queens or they would fill the zone.  The Ants could be aggressive to all other creatures and as such replace the static spawns.

    Ant behavior is really easy to model but it could be done roughly the same with Orc, bandits, wolves and even dragons.

    Could even make a zone with two different creatures that spawn like this and fight each other for territory.


    This post was edited by Trasak at March 13, 2018 9:37 AM PDT
    • 470 posts
    March 13, 2018 2:31 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    If you could add a new type of AI to an MMORPG (Pantheon) what would you add and how would it work? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

    Some of the concept AI that Storybricks was initially working on with EverQuest Next. I think that sort of AI that goes out and tries to expand and adjust to what players do in an area could be a lot of fun. 

    • 1315 posts
    March 14, 2018 6:31 AM PDT

    Code Name: Pack Mentality and or Group Tactics

    Mechanics: When multiple animals/monsters with Pack Mentality or Sentient Races with Group Tactics are agroed on the same group then they reinforce each other with a buff.  If the mobs out number their enemies then the buff increases exponentially, it would be possible for 8 level 10 mobs to bring down a top geared level 50 player with this buff.  Additionally they will maneuver the same as if they were agroed on only one player if the same Player is the top of all of their agro lists.

    Maneuvers:  Melee Mobs will circle around the same agroed target as best they can, restricted by environment.  This will open up “from the side” and “from behind” attacks that penetrate avoidance skills to a degree and do more damage.  Ranged mobs will attempt to also fire from behind or do the side though their options may be limited.

    When near death Pack Mentality mobs will call out for help.  Depending on the level difference the call will go out further and further, if the player is much higher than the mob then the call radius will be at its greatest.  Sort of an ego thing, no one wants to admit when they were beat by someone weaker than them but if someone powerful picks on them then there will be no end to complaints.  There should be a few methods to silence the call for help at a player’s disposal.

    • 40 posts
    March 15, 2018 4:55 AM PDT
    Definitely don't do what EQ next was trying to do. It seemed cool but ultimately was a waste of resources for a glorified party trick. I'd rather there actually be more playable content rather than what's happening at some city I would rarely visit let alone contribute to. The people who are going stick around after the hype dies are primarily going to be in dungeons trying to improve themselves.
    • 178 posts
    March 15, 2018 10:30 AM PDT

    For some mobs and some dispositions I would like the rolls (D&D terminology) to be of and against different attributes - but consistently so (for the mob type and disposition). It would add more to the validity of attributes as class defining attributes. Rolls for and against charisma or intelligence as opposed to AC and Strength. Sure, eventually, people would learn the various mob types and disposition types and what attributes matter the most and least, but it would give creedence to attributes matter and make a difference. It doesn't need to be overdone, but it should be done intelligently and purposefully. People learned to stock up on resists before tackling Vox and Nagafen in the EQ days of old - this would be something similar but instead linked directly to attributes and part of the architecture of mobs right from day 1.

    As an example, a charisma blast may have zero to little effect to those with a high charisma but could have a stun or knockback or disorienting affect to those with low charisma. Since we all know death is when health equals zero and for the most part AC can help mitigate the damage taken and agility can mitigate the times one gets hit, there wouldn't be any damage from a charisma hit but the damage would come from any subsequent hit as a result of being stunned, knocked back or disoriented.

    The majority of mobs and encounters can be classic attribute rolls such as strength, agility but I'd like an associated AI where mobs just are stronger and weaker and behave accordingly to their attributes, the same as players do. Any attribute that can be implemented for a player to create their character (if it's going to happen) and with gear that can augment their characters attributes can have pros and cons associated with it right from day 1 - what is good about an attribute and what is bad about an attribute. EQ put green numbers on attributes relevant for the class being created even though points could assigned anywhere. So go back to that method. Green for the attributes that have the most positive aspect for the class being chosen but at least people will be aware that they may have the strongest adventurer out there but he's going to be dumb as a post and at some point, somewhere, at some time, against some mob that is going to matter. Or they may have the smartest adventurer out there but is weaker than piece of tissue paper and at some point, somewhere, at some time, against some mob that is going to matter.

    It's more of a simplistic approach to AI, but it correlates directly to mob types, mob dispositions, mob encounters, player perceptions, group play, class balance, group dependency, and playtime dynamics. I realize that encounters in past games were sort of pseudo like this and attempted to create this, but it never really mattered. I would like it to matter. If effort is going to be put forward such that classes have attributes, then make the attributes matter. It requires forethought in design and implementation, but if the bases can be laid out then it can be carried forward in perpetuity.

     

    • 3016 posts
    March 15, 2018 7:20 PM PDT

    New AI?  hmmm a Dragon that swoops down and carries you away to its dragonlings..if you happen to stay in one spot too long. :P  From there you have to figure out how to survive.

    • 753 posts
    March 15, 2018 9:50 PM PDT

    One thing I might find interesting is if NPC's / Mobs behaviors could change based upon the presence of another NPC / Mob.

    Examples

    - A cowardly orc might typically run whenever you got too close to it... but not if an Orc Lieutenant is present.

    - A group of orcs might normally attack the tank (who is taunting)... but if an Orc Tactician is present they might instead focus on the healer

    - A dishonest barkeep might have one set of pricing if he's by himself... but a better set of pricing if a city guard is in the bar


    This post was edited by Wandidar at March 15, 2018 9:51 PM PDT
    • 1315 posts
    March 16, 2018 4:45 AM PDT

    Code Name: The intrepid sausage-in-a-bun salesman

    Mechanics:  Whenever enough PCs come together for more than 15 minutes there is a chance a street vendor NPC will show up and start hawking his/her wares.   This would most likely only happen in city areas and as such will be most likely in the market spaces or around the bank but it’s possible they would show outside of town and even really randomly at a raid if its stationary long enough.  If you are really lucky a man who really knows how to sell the sizzle will show up and offer to sell you Sausage-in-a-bun so cheap its like cutting his own throat, and if you are really lucky you will not find a “surprise” in your food.

    Name that reference, and I think that might be an indicator of my mental state this morning. RIP TP

    • 801 posts
    March 16, 2018 5:48 PM PDT

    Well if i could, i would not wish Alien based AI in a passed based game like Panth.

     

    If i could change AI? i would be improving on an engine that allowed you to change the behaviour somewhat like Arma allowed us to do. It was very complex engine, but it could allow us to change the behaviour of the AI so i am not sure you guys have this sub engine designed for this?

     

    So AI could flee, Attack, Different Arggo Ranges, Passive, to agressive behaviours. A mad man really is a mad man. One minute attacking you then flee and fall down being scared. That truely would be unique.

    Lots of great ideas, but most of all Pathing, and Collision is the biggest downfall of AI and intelligence.

    • 108 posts
    March 17, 2018 3:27 PM PDT

    Tribal AI- intelligent humanoids or monsters

    A. Start with camp with central spawn hub could be central tent or building or cave etc etc.

    B. As the tribe increases in size so do the defenses around the camps ditches and stakes, Wooden Pasasade, Rock Walls, Stone fortifications.

    C. As the tribe increases in size so do the patrols which wander the territory around it.

    D. As the tribe increases in size so do the amount of guards on the periphery.

    E. When the tribe reaches a certain size a group splits from the tribe to start another camp in desired biome for tribal group.

    F. If a tribe is being hit hard by adventureres at some point it should abandon its camp and look for safer territory. I would say if the population drops 2 levels in a period of time the tribe decides to move.

     

    Pack AI-

    Similar to tribal though this is for pack animals or monsters. thus no fortification upgrades but otherwise as the pack grows its habitat could expand. cave gets larger from digging or more passages leading to more caves.

    Hunting packs get larger as the pack becomes stronger

    If the pack is being decimated by adventurers it will move and find another lair. if the pack gets to large some members will break off and start a pack somewhere else.

     

    Hive AI-

    Similar to the above two ai routines but with a hive mind mentality such as bees or ants have. One queen a few drones, moderate number of soldiers and lots of workers. As the above two ai routines as the colony gets larger its tunnel system or hive expands. If it gets to a certain size a young queen is born and some of the colonies population follow queen to start another colony. If the colony is being devestated by adventurers the colony will move eleswhere.

    • 3016 posts
    March 17, 2018 3:31 PM PDT

    Hmm for npcs moving around "having a job to do"...shopkeeper going to the bank to deposit..for instance, (once a day)  children playing in the streets, chasing each other playing tag.  When it gets dark the children go home.

    • 139 posts
    March 19, 2018 7:58 AM PDT

    One thing that really impressed me in a rpg was vampirism in elderscrolls oblivion. I find it interesting how a npc can effect players in such a way. 

     I want to see AI have a large affect over players. All sorts of poisons, deceases and fantastic inflictions. Some you may want and some you may not. Players could be blessed or cursed. They could have stories and goals linked to them. Some effects may need help from other players, potions or going to specific players to remove or advance. 


    This post was edited by Doford at March 19, 2018 7:59 AM PDT
    • 114 posts
    March 20, 2018 5:42 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    If you could add a new type of AI to an MMORPG (Pantheon) what would you add and how would it work? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

     

    I would have a UFO that, a few times a real year, invades the world abducting one poor slob.  This poor player would be trapped some where in a cell unable to play.  When they login all they'll find is their inside a room without an exit.  This would begin a server event where friends, groups, guilds first have to locate the portal (random) the UFO used to escape.  Leading the champions to the prison where this poor player is trapped. Yada yada they fight a randomized collection of abducted monsters the UFO people use to guard the prison cell. Blah blah big red button opens a seamless door freeing this poor person.  Allowing them to return back to the world.

     This event I would call "Luclin Bust OUT". 

    Now, think about it for a moment ... IF said poor slob was a known butt-hat ... no one would rescue them.  Forever, languishing in a room with no way out and no way of bothering anyone ever again.

    :)


    This post was edited by valhalla at March 20, 2018 5:54 PM PDT
    • 114 posts
    March 20, 2018 5:50 PM PDT

    Trasak said:

    Code Name: The intrepid sausage-in-a-bun salesman

    Mechanics:  Whenever enough PCs come together for more than 15 minutes there is a chance a street vendor NPC will show up and start hawking his/her wares.   This would most likely only happen in city areas and as such will be most likely in the market spaces or around the bank but it’s possible they would show outside of town and even really randomly at a raid if its stationary long enough.  If you are really lucky a man who really knows how to sell the sizzle will show up and offer to sell you Sausage-in-a-bun so cheap its like cutting his own throat, and if you are really lucky you will not find a “surprise” in your food.

    Name that reference, and I think that might be an indicator of my mental state this morning. RIP TP

     

    LOL , I like my sadistic UFO AI ... but oh ... this would be brilliant.  sigh /nods RIP Sir TP

    • 16 posts
    March 21, 2018 1:38 AM PDT

    Fight or Flight AI for every potential NPC combatant

    Variables to consider (as sources for determining whether to fight or flee from an opponent) would consist of:

    • amount of currency held on target opponent(s) (if humanoid)
    • aggregate value of apparent apparel of opponent(s) (if humanoid)
    • number and level of opponent(s) within own aggro radius
    • number and level of nearby allies within own aggro radius
    • current health amount vs target opponent's health amount
    • aggression index which is a modifier on their calculated chance to engage or remain engaged

    These calculations would be done periodically before and during combat