I think we all want to see an assortment of useful items in the game, and I'm sure they plan to add quite a few even though I don't know what they are yet (half the fuun is finding them). But I would like to see something that involves a long questline like the Coldain Ring that gets better with each increasingly difficult step, haste items for melee like the Flowing Black Silk Sash and the Eyepatch of Plunder, mana regeneration items for casters, ect. Those items were great to find but in more recent MMOs you don't really need cool mana regeneration items because you regen so quickly. It's one of those tradeoffs: You get the tedium of slower regeneration (also what we old school folks call social time) and when you find that item that speeds up mana or hp regen a notch, it's an awesome find. So I'd love to see stuff like that as well as other items with potential proc or passives. It keeps things fun and interesting when there's some thought and crerativity put in instead of relying on an RNG. :)
Kratuk said:I think we all want to see an assortment of useful items in the game, and I'm sure they plan to add quite a few even though I don't know what they are yet (half the fuun is finding them). But I would like to see something that involves a long questline like the Coldain Ring that gets better with each increasingly difficult step, haste items for melee like the Flowing Black Silk Sash and the Eyepatch of Plunder, mana regeneration items for casters, ect. Those items were great to find but in more recent MMOs you don't really need cool mana regeneration items because you regen so quickly. It's one of those tradeoffs: You get the tedium of slower regeneration (also what we old school folks call social time) and when you find that item that speeds up mana or hp regen a notch, it's an awesome find. So I'd love to see stuff like that as well as other items with potential proc or passives. It keeps things fun and interesting when there's some thought and crerativity put in instead of relying on an RNG. :)
Not trying to be a jerk, but this topic has been discussed ad nauseum. Doing a basic search on "items" or "clickies" yielded tons of results.
I know we get new members all the time which is great for the community and the growth of the game, but a quick search before creating new threads will usually have results for what you want to discuss.
I'm surprised Bazgrim hasn't been all over this :)
Mandalorian2K said:Not trying to be a jerk, but this topic has been discussed ad nauseum. Doing a basic search on "items" or "clickies" yielded tons of results.
I know we get new members all the time which is great for the community and the growth of the game, but a quick search before creating new threads will usually have results for what you want to discuss.
I'm surprised Bazgrim hasn't been all over this :)
This thread is fine to stay and be discussed, there are many very specific "item" threads for classes or rares etc. but none as open as this so please use this thread to consolidate all item discussion from now on, unless it is specifically directed towards something that doesn't fit into this thread.
One thing in EQ that I felt didn't get implimented correctly were clickies that had charges. People just didn't use them because the benefits were rarely worth it considering you can't get them back. There may have been 1 or 2 items that were exceptions like item that click Completed Heal but could be re-quested. I don't mind charges but I think there sould be ways to re-charge them.
Maybe you can have some type of item sacraficing to recharge clickies? That would fix both the charge concern and help fight mudflation.
Kaen said:Classic EQ had numerous iconic items that really helped mold the game into what it was. Guise of the Deceiver and Pegasus Cloak, for example. What items / clickies /effects do you want to see in Pantheon? Doesn't have to be something from EQ.
There were two items from EQ1 that really stand out in my memory that completely redefined how I played my class (Shadowknight). Circlet of Shadow (Insta-click invis) and whatever the ultra rare Luclin era spell was that turned me into a skeleton and gave mana regen, which most SKs did not have. The circlet combined with Feign Death allowed me to go just about anywhere. While the spell gave me a super cool look as well as really allowed me to fearkite and solo/farm much more easily. Especially before KEI was widespread. I loved that stuff. It took a class I had already spent years on and made it feel insanely powerful and new.
There were a couple other clickies along the way, the bauble in Chardok for levitation was nice. J-Boots of course. The magic is when the item and quest is still relatively unknown. That part will be a challenge in modern times.
It's tough to say what I want in Pantheon without knowing the classes, but its safe to say things along the same lines as EQ. It was just the greatest thing to get something rare that really made you more powerful that not everyone had, but likely wanted. Doesn't have to be an item, can be a spell that's hard to get. Could be faction rewards that are hard to achieve. But, I definitely prefer getting an active ability, buff, or illusion from my items, and preferably one that makes my character more powerful or gives me new options (illusions can do this). It's just refreshing to keep seeing your class evolve or at least know the opportunity to evolve it is still out there to achieve. And it's definitely the absolute best to show it off to other players in game. The biggest thing I've missed in MMOs for the last decade is pride in my character and achievements.
bigdogchris said:One thing in EQ that I felt didn't get implimented correctly were clickies that had charges. People just didn't use them because the benefits were rarely worth it considering you can't get them back. There may have been 1 or 2 items that were exceptions like item that click Completed Heal but could be re-quested. I don't mind charges but I think there sould be ways to re-charge them.
Maybe you can have some type of item sacraficing to recharge clickies? That would fix both the charge concern and help fight mudflation.
100% Agreed. It's a slippery slope though depending on how powerful the item is.
To answer the topic: I don't have anything specific. I'd prefer some real random low level stuff. Nothing powerful. Just toys to play around with. I wouldn't mind a firework toy.
Clicky items made for some very interesting emergent gameplay. They were, unfortunately, used to exploit in a lot of ways. Like, clearly items that didn't list your class as an intended class weren't intended to be used by you from the inventory slot(trying to be as general as possible).
As long as clickies are for fashion or weak tools that have their uses...
A item mimmicking a spell you already have, is a cool trick of the trades because you don't get "more powerfull" but you save mana and time switching spells on/off, or like the CoS, you get the benefit of a spell 10 level earlier, or a mana-free heal with things like Deepwater helm.
An item mimmicking a spell you don't have, shall remain in the utility range (pegasus cloak, jboots, mask of deception) or weak weak range of spells (Grim aura). The idea not being to make a character pluripotent, but simply give him new tools easing his time and seeming worthwile. If items begin mimmicking high tiers of spells or gamebreaking utilities (Teleport / portals), the game will suffer even if thoses items will feel as a fantastic advancement for the player. (Remember the mallet proc'ing Overthere ?)
I remember when my rogue got a chest from WToV with the clicky invigorate, sure it was a 100 hp heal on a long cast, but it mean my downtime could easy withouth the need of bandages and it felt really GREAT to me. Not for soloing because as a rogue I was crappy in this domain, but simply to recover from unespected mob aggro withouth waiting for long long minutes of sitting.
I hope there's a *ton* of stuff like there was in EQ.
It was *awesome* for classes that didn't have much magical ability to get clickies and be able to levitate, self heal, turn invisible, run fast, all that lovely stuff.
The fact that those items took significant investment in time and coordination, etc, is also essential!
Zeem said:For items that get nerfed,it will happen eventually. I like to see the pre-nerf items stay intact once a player has looted it. Global item changes, I'm not for.
That is gamebreaking and favoring splits in community. I don't think anyone would be unwise now, to nerf things afterward and keep unbalanced items running, trading, and perpeting the reason they were nerfed even in some lesser extent.
MauvaisOeil said:Zeem said:For items that get nerfed,it will happen eventually. I like to see the pre-nerf items stay intact once a player has looted it. Global item changes, I'm not for.
That is gamebreaking and favoring splits in community. I don't think anyone would be unwise now, to nerf things afterward and keep unbalanced items running, trading, and perpeting the reason they were nerfed even in some lesser extent.
It's the same thing they did in EQ1. I'm talking pre-nerf CoS, fungi staff etc. I'm talking about just undesireable items for alot of people to get it and they decide to change it. If an item is "gamebreaking" then yes I agree with you.
Pre nerf CoS is far, far, far from beeing undersirable. While it's a small issue, it's was a gamebreaking item especially for SK, allowing them for FD tricks pulls impossible withouth it. While I understand anyone willing to keep it untouched, let's be honest, the advantage of having one cannot be neglected.
That's my main point, MMO's are about time invested and farm chance, if you add another layer of chance of "beeing there before the item was changed to be "fair" instead of "must have" ", you're doing a bad service to your game by widening the gap between old and new players. Of course this was less of an issue one classic EQ, I never myself heard of CoS pre nerf and there were probably a real small amount existing, P99 could anticipate the nerf and people farmed them for it's strength or for selling at an outrageous prices.
Obviously I want a large variation of different items out there. I want to sit at the EC tunnel and, on any given day, see a gigantic list of items being bought and sold that I, as of yet, hadn't even heard of. I want the options to be staggeringly large.
Yet, I wonder if that diversity of gear had more to do with the lack of "no-trade"/"no-drop" items that could be worn by multuple classes/races than actual diversity of gear. If we take an MMO like, LOTRO for example, and make every item tradeable, would it seem less restricted and, by context, more diverse? Are there really THAT many items in EQ, or is it the wearability that simply makes it seem more diverse?
Genuine thoughts. Either way, yea, give me a bunch of different crap.
Zeem said:For items that get nerfed,it will happen eventually. I like to see the pre-nerf items stay intact once a player has looted it. Global item changes, I'm not for.
...
It's the same thing they did in EQ1. I'm talking pre-nerf CoS, fungi staff etc. I'm talking about just undesireable items for alot of people to get it and they decide to change it. If an item is "gamebreaking" then yes I agree with you.
This 100%.
Keeping Guise of the Deceiver functional for those who had obtained one when they replaced with Mask of Deception was great. Those very very rare times you'd see a Dark Elf monk or shaman run past and then you do a double take was great. Manastone was fine to keep in the game even if it stopped dropping and they limited it to only work in the old world. Rubicite was always iconic and wondrous to see, made to no longer drop because in early EQ twinking wasn't very embraced and a lot of people complained it was too strong to give regen to lower levels & they didn't like the idea of chain classes having access to plate.
Most of the time the issue was that the stats were just a little too good so they stopped the item from dropping or replaced future drops with a slightly different version. Those that actually were heavily unbalanced were retroactively nerfed like Mosscovered Twig, Barbed Scale Whip, Wurmslayer, etc.
Tralyan said:Obviously I want a large variation of different items out there. I want to sit at the EC tunnel and, on any given day, see a gigantic list of items being bought and sold that I, as of yet, hadn't even heard of. I want the options to be staggeringly large.
Yet, I wonder if that diversity of gear had more to do with the lack of "no-trade"/"no-drop" items that could be worn by multuple classes/races than actual diversity of gear. If we take an MMO like, LOTRO for example, and make every item tradeable, would it seem less restricted and, by context, more diverse? Are there really THAT many items in EQ, or is it the wearability that simply makes it seem more diverse?
Genuine thoughts. Either way, yea, give me a bunch of different crap.
I think it's mostly that most items were both tradable and wearable by large sections of the classes compared to games today where entire sets of items are catered to specific classes with the exact stats they want. In EQ you'd take what you could get and be excited about it too; wisdom boots with +3 wisdom and +3 agi? Sweet! These days people get riled up and complain ad nauseam in chat and forums "WTF why do they put agility on healer boots? "Game Company" are morons and their itemization sucks!"
It also helped that base stats in general weren't super impactful, especially at low to mid levels. STR was limited by various damage caps until level 30 and after that it required a lot to really boost max damages (assuming 200 weapon skill, 10 base damage weapon, & level 50; 80 STR would do 28.5 max dmg a hit, 150 STR would do 35.5 damage a hit with a 10 damage weapon and 250 STR would do 45). INT/WIS scaled slowly with level too and only gave more mana wasn't necessarily important for leveling content as you still had to wait for mana regen and/or mob respawns. STA scaled slowly as well and differently based on class.
Kind of hard to put that into individual items, I remember it was very difficult to get the "Bling" so most of your life you were running around in mismatched armor and weapons and seeing someone in matched up gear you always knew they were either in an elite guild that raids constantly or they bought it from farmers, now days where everyone needs to customize well that's all fine and dandy and color matching doesn't take from the game play, but being able to purchase high end gear? .. don't want to see that, would want to have to earn it whether through a quest line or dungeon crawl or Raid, buying your way to the top just causes lot of whining and complaining about how there is no more content to master because they have paid for outgrowing it instead of learning it ... Sorry ranting ... Just my 2 copper
It seems funny now because of how far we've come graphically....but I loved the particle effects only being on epics in eq(they may have changed this later on, I stopped shortly after Luclin). The first time I saw the Ranger epics I knew I needed them in my life.
Lammys and Wurmslayers always looked cool to me too.
Hoping set items are a thing. I like when armor has a cohesive look.
bigdogchris said:One thing in EQ that I felt didn't get implimented correctly were clickies that had charges. People just didn't use them because the benefits were rarely worth it considering you can't get them back. There may have been 1 or 2 items that were exceptions like item that click Completed Heal but could be re-quested. I don't mind charges but I think there sould be ways to re-charge them.
Maybe you can have some type of item sacraficing to recharge clickies? That would fix both the charge concern and help fight mudflation.
Ashvaild said:It seems funny now because of how far we've come graphically....but I loved the particle effects only being on epics in eq(they may have changed this later on, I stopped shortly after Luclin). The first time I saw the Ranger epics I knew I needed them in my life.
Lammys and Wurmslayers always looked cool to me too.
Kaen said:bigdogchris said:One thing in EQ that I felt didn't get implimented correctly were clickies that had charges. People just didn't use them because the benefits were rarely worth it considering you can't get them back. There may have been 1 or 2 items that were exceptions like item that click Completed Heal but could be re-quested. I don't mind charges but I think there sould be ways to re-charge them.
Maybe you can have some type of item sacraficing to recharge clickies? That would fix both the charge concern and help fight mudflation.
Good point, and that would be a cool solution!
For a "complete heal" type of clicky, maybe you have to go to a Cleric trainer in a city and he drains some of your health and stores it in the item, thus knocking down your existing health, which you will eventually get back over time. Do this x number of times and the item is fully re-charged. Basically turning the item into a "health battery". You could do the same thing for mana, but usae a Magician trainer instead of a Cleric.
Kalok said:Kaen said:bigdogchris said:One thing in EQ that I felt didn't get implimented correctly were clickies that had charges. People just didn't use them because the benefits were rarely worth it considering you can't get them back. There may have been 1 or 2 items that were exceptions like item that click Completed Heal but could be re-quested. I don't mind charges but I think there sould be ways to re-charge them.
Maybe you can have some type of item sacraficing to recharge clickies? That would fix both the charge concern and help fight mudflation.
Good point, and that would be a cool solution!For a "complete heal" type of clicky, maybe you have to go to a Cleric trainer in a city and he drains some of your health and stores it in the item, thus knocking down your existing health, which you will eventually get back over time. Do this x number of times and the item is fully re-charged. Basically turning the item into a "health battery". You could do the same thing for mana, but usae a Magician trainer instead of a Cleric.