Forums » The Summoner

Chain Summoning

    • 11 posts
    January 10, 2018 7:21 AM PST

    Hi there, 

    in Everquest at some level the most effective way to solo for a Magician was to chain summon the pet. This means (please correct me if im wrong) that you start a fight with a pet until the pet is almost dead. Then you kill the pet (with reclaim energy) right before it would have been killed by the mob, cast a new pet and send it against the mob. 

    Would you like to see something like that? This tactic bugged me somehow, so i never played a mage in EQ higher than lvl 30.

     

    PS: I did  a search in the forum but could not find any topic covering this.

    • 467 posts
    January 10, 2018 7:42 AM PST

    Don't think you have the tactic down quite right.

    If you used reclaim energy, you'd have to do a long cast to summon the new pet and the mob would be all over you before it completed.

    Generally, you'd start summoning the next pet when the health of the first was low, then either the pet would die just in time or you'd dismiss it a second before the new pet emerged.

    It was a powerful tactic, not just for soloing, but for two or three mages to take down some tough targets.   Phinny in Kedge Keep was a good example where two mages could easily chain pets and take him down - with good timing and strategy.

    I have no problem with the technique.  You had a finite amount of mana to cast new pets, just like wizards had a finite amount for nukes.  Classes should be able to devise strategies that optimize whatever resources are at their disposal.  That's what makes a class fun to play -- the discovery process and the challenges of doing more with fewer players/resources.

    I do hope that overall we don't have classes that are solo machines and that even the pet classes are reliant on others for most encounters.

    • 436 posts
    January 10, 2018 10:43 PM PST

    Matrulak said:

    Hi there, 

    in Everquest at some level the most effective way to solo for a Magician was to chain summon the pet. This means (please correct me if im wrong) that you start a fight with a pet until the pet is almost dead. Then you kill the pet (with reclaim energy) right before it would have been killed by the mob, cast a new pet and send it against the mob. 

    Would you like to see something like that? This tactic bugged me somehow, so i never played a mage in EQ higher than lvl 30.

     

    PS: I did  a search in the forum but could not find any topic covering this.

    You're mostly right. The tactic was to to use earth pets and rely on their root spell, in combination with the quick summon AA ability (which halved your summon time for new pets). It often was a question of timing: If the pet got a root off in time, you could reclaim energy and then summon a new one right away, which would appear right before the root from the last pet wore off. Sometimes you had to wait too long and the pet would die before you could reclaim it. Often you would only throw a damage shield on the pet and not even the burnout (haste) spell, depending on how long each pet lived. You also could not nuke, because then the mob would have far too high hate for you, and each new pet could not overcome that quickly, so a missed root of the pet would hurt you a lot :)

    Yes, you could go and solo in some hard areas doing this (for example, I used it in Droga/Nurga, a combination of invis to get where I could find single mobs, and pet chain summoning). It worked and was exciting. However, it was (in my experience) not a really efficient tactic. You had to be very selective in your targets, and a single add usually meant it was time to gate (+ associated run back).

    In a group of mages, this tactic was probably awesome. Never really experienced that though :(

    • 467 posts
    January 11, 2018 2:11 PM PST

    As long as it's not forced gameplay and ends up being really niche, I don't really mind such mechanic. Feats of Strength are sometimes, figuring an alternate gameplay to perform the impossible, even if it's not efficient or paying, it's reward lies in the accomplishment itself.

    • 600 posts
    January 19, 2018 4:33 AM PST

    Sarim said:

    Matrulak said:

    Hi there, 

    in Everquest at some level the most effective way to solo for a Magician was to chain summon the pet. This means (please correct me if im wrong) that you start a fight with a pet until the pet is almost dead. Then you kill the pet (with reclaim energy) right before it would have been killed by the mob, cast a new pet and send it against the mob. 

    Would you like to see something like that? This tactic bugged me somehow, so i never played a mage in EQ higher than lvl 30.

     

    PS: I did  a search in the forum but could not find any topic covering this.

    You're mostly right. The tactic was to to use earth pets and rely on their root spell, in combination with the quick summon AA ability (which halved your summon time for new pets). It often was a question of timing: If the pet got a root off in time, you could reclaim energy and then summon a new one right away, which would appear right before the root from the last pet wore off. Sometimes you had to wait too long and the pet would die before you could reclaim it. Often you would only throw a damage shield on the pet and not even the burnout (haste) spell, depending on how long each pet lived. You also could not nuke, because then the mob would have far too high hate for you, and each new pet could not overcome that quickly, so a missed root of the pet would hurt you a lot :)

    Yes, you could go and solo in some hard areas doing this (for example, I used it in Droga/Nurga, a combination of invis to get where I could find single mobs, and pet chain summoning). It worked and was exciting. However, it was (in my experience) not a really efficient tactic. You had to be very selective in your targets, and a single add usually meant it was time to gate (+ associated run back).

    In a group of mages, this tactic was probably awesome. Never really experienced that though :(

     

    I dont honestly believe that tactic was meant to be a feature..... Too bad features where created from unseen, exploits. Exploits meaning people found ways to maniliplate the system into thier needs. Guilds learned from each other, why it gets coined as an Exloited feature by the devs.

    • 8 posts
    January 25, 2018 10:29 AM PST

    A friend and I used to chain our earth pets so that we always had one engaged on the mob. (pre AA)

    I doubt that was a exploit but teamwork.

    Jim

     

    • 49 posts
    January 28, 2018 2:21 PM PST

    My tendency is too take care of my pets (in real life and in virtual), so it's uncomfortable not to heal or buff my pets. I definately did pet chain summoning when I had no choice but to take down a hard mob after my group failed to...stay alive. I was more inclined to group as a Magician.

    In Pantheon I hope that there will be a separation between the main pet that should stay alive (and takes way more to summon) and temporary pets that are made to be chain summoned. If a more complex system gets put in place then we could have the permanent pet tank the mob while the temporary pet supports the tank. It definately sounds powerful to just make a tiny group out of no where that follows your every command, but that very much sounds like what a Summoner would do.

    I wonder how it is to control two or more pets at the same time. If it's not easy then the chain summoned pets should take the place of the permanent pet...such as sending it to storage. I still like the idea of having a second pet helping the first one or combining forces in some way.

     

     

    • 195 posts
    February 21, 2018 11:59 AM PST

    All these chain summoning tactics that you're describing sound like good examples of emergent gameplay; something that arose from systems rather than being explicitly designed.  I'd encourage you all to think about systems instead of designing specific gameplay hooks.  It's a classic mistake to take emergent gameplay that you like and then try to reproduce that instead of the underlying systems that it arose from.