Forums » Pantheon Classes

Who is the 2h dps class?

    • 11 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:52 PM PST
    Just like the early years of EQ there wasn’t a class dedicated to the 2h weapon in a dps role. The knights were pretty terrible dps even with a 2h and for everyone else dual wield was better for a long long time.

    Sure the monks and rangers even the warrior used the 2h from time to time, usually vs damage shield mobs or riposters, but no class used the 2h way better than everyone else. This fact kind of makes me sad and I am hoping at least some class will be respectable dps with a 2h.

    Is this going to be the same this time around as well? Any hope there is one class that shines with the 2h?
    • 2752 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:57 PM PST

    I don't think there is going to be a class specifically dedicated to 2h weapons so much as there will be some classes that can use them and times that they are the better option. 

    • 633 posts
    December 8, 2017 5:28 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I don't think there is going to be a class specifically dedicated to 2h weapons so much as there will be some classes that can use them and times that they are the better option. 

    It's possible that they could.  Vanguard had a class that was pretty dedicated to 2h weapons.  A bunch of Dread Lords abilities were only available with 2 handers.

    • 2419 posts
    December 8, 2017 8:08 PM PST

    2hd weapons are terrible DPS (thus terrible for maintaining aggro) because of the necessity of having a long delay.  Long delay against a mob with high defense, which most boss mobs have, gives a very spikey DPS profile.  The only saving grace at least for the EQ1 ShadowKnight and Paladin was their use of a 2HS didn't cost them an AC loss for losing their shield in off-hand.  If the aggro mechanics in Pantheon can be constructed properly you could have the Paladin and DireLord make better use of 2H weapons than a Warrior.

    • 11 posts
    December 8, 2017 10:44 PM PST

    I’m talking as a dps class not for tanking. Personally for me there is something fun and dramatic on each of those slow swings. Missing hurts no doubt, but man those big crits/hits make you feel good! Plus seeing the damage improvement as you equip better and better weapons makes it all worth while. Then stack on double and triple attack and boy it gets a bit exciting, or depressing, waiting to see what kind of hit you score each swing.

    I guess I just want a class that dps’s as 2h and not be a class that can be 2h but would be doing much more dual wielding, hence not wanted in groups for playing differently.  Personally I find the spam of small numbers annoying.

    The EQ berserker was an ok class, but I feel like pantheon can do 2h better.

    I dont want to be relegated to a crap dps Knight if I want to use 2h as my biggest fear is being forced to tank cause you don’t do jack for damage.  


    This post was edited by Gwhorg at December 8, 2017 10:48 PM PST
    • 2419 posts
    December 9, 2017 11:22 AM PST

    Gwhorg said:

    I guess I just want a class that dps’s as 2h and not be a class that can be 2h but would be doing much more dual wielding, hence not wanted in groups for playing differently.  Personally I find the spam of small numbers annoying.

    Your DPS class choices, at least for melee, are Rogue, Ranger and Monk.  Of those I would think that the Monk would be the class where a 2hd weapon would be a more obvious choice.  A Bo staff, basically, would serve as a good 2hd Monk weapon.

    • 624 posts
    December 9, 2017 1:35 PM PST

    When I think 2H weapon my mind drifts to Tuba, Trombone, and French Horn. Blasting a battle anthem with that kind of big brass really motivates the group.

    But then again I am just a spoony bard...

    • 2752 posts
    December 11, 2017 11:15 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    2hd weapons are terrible DPS (thus terrible for maintaining aggro) because of the necessity of having a long delay.  Long delay against a mob with high defense, which most boss mobs have, gives a very spikey DPS profile.  The only saving grace at least for the EQ1 ShadowKnight and Paladin was their use of a 2HS didn't cost them an AC loss for losing their shield in off-hand.  If the aggro mechanics in Pantheon can be constructed properly you could have the Paladin and DireLord make better use of 2H weapons than a Warrior.

    There are always ways to make 2h not be bad at DPS, one possibility would be having 2h weapons ignore a flat % of target armor. The more heavily armored the target the better option 2h would be, especially for things like constructs/golems/earth elementals. 

     

     

    • 11 posts
    December 11, 2017 4:51 PM PST
    After watching the Cohh monk stream that class certainly looks like it is targeted as a DW class. Rogue, I would think, would not be designed to use 2h without some special backstab rules. Which basically leaves ranger, which could fit the lore I suppose. I am doubting they will dilute the tank pool by letting war, pal, or DL have a competitive dps spec.

    Here is to hoping ranger can 2h dps and not be craptastic at it!
    • 2752 posts
    December 11, 2017 5:01 PM PST

    Gwhorg said: After watching the Cohh monk stream that class certainly looks like it is targeted as a DW class. Rogue, I would think, would not be designed to use 2h without some special backstab rules. Which basically leaves ranger, which could fit the lore I suppose. I am doubting they will dilute the tank pool by letting war, pal, or DL have a competitive dps spec. Here is to hoping ranger can 2h dps and not be craptastic at it!

     

    2h ranger doesn't seem too out of the question to me. Most melee seem to be concerned with filling 2 slots (2 melee weapons or 1 + shield) so for Ranger it would seem fair to me if they were mostly 2h and ranged so they are also looking to fill 2 slots. 

    • 68 posts
    December 11, 2017 9:55 PM PST

    I think it's possible Dire Lords will be designed around using 2handed weapons as their primary choice. Rangers is a good shout as well, especially if they want to move away from the hybrid design of the class in being something in-between Warriors and Druids. I think 2h spears and bows could be an interesting design, and fit the hunter/trapper/scout persona well. I'm guessing Monks will be able to use staves as well.

     

    • 316 posts
    December 26, 2017 3:33 PM PST
    I quite hope Dire Lords can dps at least fairly well with 2h weapons! I hope Paladins are the better tank and DLs have much better dps of the two. That'd make sense, wouldnt it?
    • 1479 posts
    January 4, 2018 12:51 PM PST

    My own opinion, engaging only me :

     

    Avaliability of weapons should result in an equal DPS beeing dual wield or 2handed : If rangers, warriors and monks can dual wield as much as they can use a 2hand weapon, they shouldn't have a to-go style that overwhelm the other, but instead, should follow simply the best weapon or set of weapon they can put their hand on.

     

    Why would you be able to use various types of weapons, if one choice was forced to be lower than the other at equal gear ? I remember 2hB was pretty populars with monks at high level of gear due to the triple attacks only triggering for MH, but in the end I also remember weapons were quite close in term of performances, you didn't really choose one or the other but let the drops trigger which path you took.

    Year 2018 and numerous MMO's approach shoul give quite easy answers on how could weapon styles be balanced around each others.

     

    To me, the hardest part would be : Sword and board versus 2hander/Dual wield.

    • 83 posts
    February 20, 2018 10:31 AM PST

    Well, the biggest difference between specializing between using a two-hander versus using two weapons is also the most obvious. You need to get two weapons to dual wield. Keeping two weapons upgraded is a lot more difficult to do compared to keeping one, larger weapon upgraded. This dynamic has always had me be a little more forgiving if dual-wield DPS, assuming you had two high end weapons, was at least a little higher than a comparable two-handed weapon.

    As for classes, it would shock me if the Dire Lord didn't have a competitive DPS when placing a huge, intimidating axe, maul, or sword in their hands. Warriors might even get in on the fun and have some specialities in two-handers in their build somewhere. Monks being able to use long staves is perfectly okay in my book. Rangers using a two-handed sword would harken back to one of the classic Rangers in fiction: Aragorn. No arguments there.

    Two-handed weapons being better against heavily armored opponents is a pretty common trope in both fiction and game-design, so I would like it if that held true in Pantheon as well. I still don't have information about that though, so I'm excited to see what VR has in mind for two-handed weapons!

    • 945 posts
    February 20, 2018 11:36 AM PST

    In regard to 2h or 1h choices, I'm curious about epic weapons...  This would obviously have a great influence on a melee's playstyle.  I loved the "epic" look and feel that the epic weapons had in EQ. 

    If each class had a specific augment/enchantment that could be placed in a weapon type to change its appearance to still be iconic, that would be amazing.   (Innorruuk's Curse was probably the coolest thing in any game that I had ever seen and still holds a special place in my heart today!)  :)

    It was skill level based in EQ, and your class determined your skill cap.  With that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing something like the warrior being able to use all fighting styles (dual wield, sword n board, 2h, archery) decently.  (Like at level 10if the skill cap was 100 the warrior skill cap could be 110/100 for all fighting styles).  The Dire Lord and Paladin maybe exceling at 2h (110/100) and limited in archery (75/100), while ranger excels in archery (125/100).  The rogue could excel at dual wield (125/100), while the monk excelled at all melee combat (125/100) but completely restricted from shields and archery.  Just a very loose example but I think you get where I was going with that.  Just my 2 cents.

     

    • 65 posts
    February 21, 2018 4:48 AM PST

    Sometimes the damage of abilities in some games is related to % weapon damage. In games like these sometimes 2h weapons can be more effective to increase ability damage, even if their white damage is lower. It makes for an interesting decisions in which weapon might be better for a certain encounter based off that information alone.

    • 83 posts
    March 26, 2018 1:12 PM PDT

    The CohhCarnage stream mentioned a mob who had a devastating damage shield, and the dev's recommended way of dealing with it was to either A: interrupt the damage shield (since the mob cast it mid-combat) or B: Avoid multi-hitting or fast-attacking skills and exclusively use slow, heavy-hitting skills against it. It looks like two-handers might be an important tool in any DPS's toolkit~

    • 2 posts
    April 19, 2018 4:45 AM PDT

    I would be very interested in seeing a pure 2h dps class like the Berserker or even as the FF Dragoon and implement some more polearm type 2handers.


    This post was edited by Bikn77 at April 19, 2018 4:54 AM PDT
    • 17 posts
    April 27, 2018 7:14 PM PDT

    I generally gravitate toward the strength-based melee fighter archetype as well, whether it be with a 2h or dual wielding. For whatever reason, I like the flavor of being a muscly barbarian/fighter type dude that bashes things with brute strength and recklessness rather than a roguish/agile guy that finds weak spots, uses alchemy, and backstabs. I would like to see a class that has the option to either use 2h weapons or dual wield and is a strength-based class. Each of the types of weapons would have to have different strengths and weaknesses, of course, and perhaps you would even toggle which one you're using depending on the situation you are in.

    • 1479 posts
    April 29, 2018 5:52 AM PDT

    Vivere said:

    I generally gravitate toward the strength-based melee fighter archetype as well, whether it be with a 2h or dual wielding. For whatever reason, I like the flavor of being a muscly barbarian/fighter type dude that bashes things with brute strength and recklessness rather than a roguish/agile guy that finds weak spots, uses alchemy, and backstabs. I would like to see a class that has the option to either use 2h weapons or dual wield and is a strength-based class. Each of the types of weapons would have to have different strengths and weaknesses, of course, and perhaps you would even toggle which one you're using depending on the situation you are in.

     

    For now I'd say ranger is your path ! :p

    • 17 posts
    April 29, 2018 7:58 AM PDT
    Perhaps. I don't really like pet classes usually, though. Suppose I'll have to see how they handle it.
    • 1479 posts
    April 29, 2018 8:57 AM PDT

    Rangers aren't wow's hunters or GW2's ranger, the ETA on pets is unknown for now, but in EQ they had none, event temporary ones.

    • 17 posts
    April 29, 2018 3:24 PM PDT
    Yeah, I know they're different, but as far as I have heard, pets seem to be part of the early concept of the class still, right? I assume the ranger will be more like a D&D ranger. But, even those rangers often have pets. I just really don't enjoy pet classes, lol.
    • 8 posts
    May 1, 2018 12:02 AM PDT

    Joppa said:

    - We're considering the idea that 2H weapons (because of the size/weight and subsequent power of each strike) would bypass the penalty of a body type that may be resistant to that damage type. This would give Dire Lords the option to switch from Dual-Wield to a 2Handed weapon when fighting a Skeleton, a Stone Golem, etc. (NPCs with Body Types resistant to slashing).

    I found this in a Dire Lords discussion called Edged weaponry vs. NPC vulnerabilities.

    From what I have been able to gather it sounds like the ranger will be 2H DPS class. Sounds like there going back to the old school ranger and making it like Aragorn in The Lord of the Rings. We still need more info on the other classes. I remember Jappa saying something about them still working on the animations for 2H in an old stream. That would explain why we have yet to see any.

    • 1479 posts
    May 1, 2018 6:51 AM PDT

    My big fear is "will they make the ranger a pet class", as I have nothing against pets but I really don't want to see the ranger beeing some kind of wow hunter. There are enough pet classes incoming (summoner and necromancer), and since warriors will probably not be able to be frontline DPS, I would really love to see the ranger as a versatile arsinal melee DPS, where the rogue is tied to concealment and trickery, and the monk a focused mind into body perfection.

    While I didn't really enjoy the berzerker in EQ1, simply because it was only a flurry skill with some expensive hatchet throws (and I've seen a lot of zerk tanking XP groups where Rangers or monks couldn't), I can understand that the offensive warrior archetype might be missing if the warrior ends up beeing tied to a shield and a low DPS.